Mental Health Do Weed Smokers Call Psychosis Bad Trips?

[LookingForSelf]

Im just thinking if people who were never on medications in there life who smoke weed daily call psychosis bad trips. Like do they realize it and clear their mind and put there attention on something else while people with labels of schizophrenia are the ones who dont realize its a bad trip and take it seriously and end up in a bad situation? Do they have something we dont? Is it attainable? Is that the whole purpose of self recovery and learning to live with such a diagnosis?

 

[silverwheel]

What?

As best as I can parse any sense or meaning from your post, the answers are no, no, and no. Smoking weed daily is not an effective substitute for psychiatric medication, and depending on the strain and frequency/quantity of use, can be counterproductive and harmful. Psychosis goes well beyond "taking it seriously" or "not realizing it's a bad trip." People who smoke weed daily are not enlightened, and do not possess any special wisdom about anything.

 

[LookingForSelf]

What?

As best as I can parse any sense or meaning from your post, the answers are no, no, and no. Smoking weed daily is not an effective substitute for psychiatric medication, and depending on the strain and frequency/quantity of use, can be counterproductive and harmful. Psychosis goes well beyond "taking it seriously" or "not realizing it's a bad trip." People who smoke weed daily are not enlightened, and do not possess any special wisdom about anything.

I didnt say weed should be a substitute for antipsychotics. But I dont believe in antipsychotics anyway. I just don't feel its right to tell someone thats been diagnosed schizophrenic that they can no longer enjoy a plant that has helped people for thousands of years.

Yeah I agree with you Psychosis is more serious than I originally penned it to be but I do think it can be worked on.

About weed smokers, I wasnt saying there enlightened becuase of the weed or anything. I was saying do they as human beings have some mental reserve specifically for not allowing them to succumb to psychosis. Since weed can induce psychosis in someone who isnt schizophrenic I was trying to deduce wether there is a connection that could be found that could help everyone.

 

[silverwheel]

I didnt say weed should be a substitute for antipsychotics. But I dont believe in antipsychotics anyway. I just don't feel its right to tell someone thats been diagnosed schizophrenic that they can no longer enjoy a plant that has helped people for thousands of years.

Yeah I agree with you Psychosis is more serious than I originally penned it to be but I do think it can be worked on.

About weed smokers, I wasnt saying there enlightened becuase of the weed or anything. I was saying do they as human beings have some mental reserve specifically for not allowing them to succumb to psychosis. Since weed can induce psychosis in someone who isnt schizophrenic I was trying to deduce wether there is a connection that could be found that could help everyone.

No, they don't have any kind of mental reserve. And you've been told to stay away from weed because it's bad for your condition.

 

[LookingForSelf]

No, they don't have any kind of mental reserve. And you've been told to stay away from weed because it's bad for your condition.

Oh they dont do they? Thank you, your swift and logical response has alleviated my reasons for having an open discussion on a hypothetical question.

And ill keep puffing on my joint, dad.

 

[Hilary]

I didnt say weed should be a substitute for antipsychotics. But I dont believe in antipsychotics anyway. I just don't feel its right to tell someone thats been diagnosed schizophrenic that they can no longer enjoy a plant that has helped people for thousands of years….
Yeah I agree with you Psychosis is more serious than I originally penned it to be but I do think it can be worked on….
…Since weed can induce psychosis in someone who isnt schizophrenic I was trying to deduce wether there is a connection that could be found that could help everyone.

I think you are on the right track. The trouble with weed is that it is an adulterated natural substance. For generations, people have been selectively breeding weed to develop strains that are very high in THC and very low in CBD compounds. The CBD compounds are neuro-protective. Thanks to gene mapping technology, there is research implicating certain gene variations in some people that make them more susceptible to psychosis from high THC exposure and also to stress.

It may (emphasis on may) turn out that people with any type of psychosis (whether it was caused by THC or stress, or lack of sleep, or energy drinks, or fairy dust) can indeed smoke weed, if they smoke weed that is very high in CBD compounds. The only problem is, you might not be satisfied with the sensation you get from a ‘balanced’ strain.

In my opinion, schizophrenia is not a diagnosis, it is merely a description of a collection of symptoms which have an organic cause that can be easily reversed once the cause is identified and treated (and not with pharmaceuticals).

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

^Is that then even "weed" in the common sense? People smoke weed more often than not because the THC gets them high.

Wasn't expecting that. Are you claiming that you've not only pinpointed the cause of schizophrenia, but know how to "easily" cure, or as you put it, "reverse", it? Please enlighten me.

First of all, especially when it comes to weed, you're either going to use it or not. Psychiatrists give out recommendations based on fact. Few would actually command their patients to stop smoking pot, because they know it would make their patients rebellious, and they again don't have absolute (or even moderate) control unless they're working out of a hospital. Your response exemplifies this point.

When you say "enjoy", I'm assuming you mean the couple hours or so after someone smokes it when they're high. I don't think you're taking into account the days afterward during which symptoms are more painful. This is a main problem with mentally ill people and drug users: they fail to see even a couple days into the future before they grab for instant gratification.

It makes sense that people who don't become psychotic after smoking weed have some difference compared to those who do, but no one has pinpointed the nature of that difference at this point.

 

[Hilary]

I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I agree that most people smoke marijuana because it makes them high. That's the whole point of smoking it. Some people may feel badly afterwards, some don't, and some don't ever make the connection - so they continue to smoke. I know people who smoked most of their lives without any problems. All I'm saying is that smoking is OK for some people, and a really bad choice for others, if they are negatively mentally impacted by it.

I don't claim to pinpoint the cause of "schizophrenia". Quite honestly, I don't believe in the label. All the different labels for psychiatric mental illnesses which are listed in the DSM (around 300 of them) are just labels for a specific set of symptoms. The labels themselves are the result of a bunch of psychiatrists attending a convention, often in a nice resort location, who vote on which symptoms should constitute the next new psychiatric 'illness' – and all for the sole purpose of prescribing a particular medication to treat it, and getting insurance companies to pay up. That's job security for psychiatrists. Even the nation's leading mental health official, Dr Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, attacked the DSM-5 for a "lack of validity".

On a practical level, as soon as people have a mental illness diagnosis in their medical records, they can have trouble purchasing a fire arm or getting insurance or certain jobs or a security clearance. It also changes how people think of themselves.

People are labeled "mentally ill" when all they have is a variation of normal human behavior, or a temporary psychotic episode resulting from any number of possible causes, one of which might be a genetic sensitivity to psychosis from THC.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

. Thanks to gene mapping technology, there is research implicating certain gene variations in some people that make them more susceptible to psychosis from high THC exposure and also to stress.

It may (emphasis on may) turn out that people with any type of psychosis (whether it was caused by THC or stress, or lack of sleep, or energy drinks, or fairy dust) can indeed smoke weed, if they smoke weed that is very high in CBD compounds. The only problem is, you might not be satisfied with the sensation you get from a ‘balanced’ strain.

In my opinion, schizophrenia is not a diagnosis, it is merely a description of a collection of symptoms which have an organic cause that can be easily reversed once the cause is identified and treated (and not with pharmaceuticals).

I think you are misinterpreting what I am trying to say. I agree that most people smoke marijuana because it makes them high. That's the whole point of smoking it. Some people may feel badly afterwards, some don't, and some don't ever make the connection - so they continue to smoke. I know people who smoked most of their lives without any problems. All I'm saying is that smoking is OK for some people, and a really bad choice for others, if they are negatively mentally impacted by it.

I don't claim to pinpoint the cause of "schizophrenia". Quite honestly, I don't believe in the label. All the different labels for psychiatric mental illnesses which are listed in the DSM (around 300 of them) are just labels for a specific set of symptoms. The labels themselves are the result of a bunch of psychiatrists attending a convention, often in a nice resort location, who vote on which symptoms should constitute the next new psychiatric 'illness' – and all for the sole purpose of prescribing a particular medication to treat it, and getting insurance companies to pay up. That's job security for psychiatrists. Even the nation's leading mental health official, Dr Thomas Insel, director of the National Institute of Mental Health, attacked the DSM-5 for a "lack of validity".

On a practical level, as soon as people have a mental illness diagnosis in their medical records, they can have trouble purchasing a fire arm or getting insurance or certain jobs or a security clearance. It also changes how people think of themselves.

People are labeled "mentally ill" when all they have is a variation of normal human behavior, or a temporary psychotic episode resulting from any number of possible causes, one of which might be a genetic sensitivity to psychosis from THC.

And yet you clearly state that high CBD:THC strains might leave one less "satisfied".

So schizophrenia is a collection of symptoms with an "organic" basis, yet it's not a mental illness? And we can identify its "cause" and even "reverse it", yet you "don't claim to pinpoint the cause of schizophrenia"? Am I missing something? Are you trying to say that other people know what causes it, not yourself?

The DSM hasn't been well thought of for a while, but that's tangential.

 

[belligerent drunk]

I wonder how you're planning on effectively "reversing" a mental illness with organic basis without the use of pharmaceuticals.

I can see that you're showing bias against traditional medicine for whatever personal reasons, but it's not enough to dismiss the currently accepted medical approach. Yes, we don't know much about the way brain operates as a whole on chemical level, but I would say that given our lack of knowledge, we're doing our best to treat conditions we're not sure about the mechanisms of. It's a lot of hit and miss because of that. Still, if you're not satisfied with the current approach, what do you propose we do? Just leave mentally ill people be, because you don't see their condition as a problem?

 

[LookingForSelf]

I wonder how you're planning on effectively "reversing" a mental illness with organic basis without the use of pharmaceuticals.

I can see that you're showing bias against traditional medicine for whatever personal reasons, but it's not enough to dismiss the currently accepted medical approach. Yes, we don't know much about the way brain operates as a whole on chemical level, but I would say that given our lack of knowledge, we're doing our best to treat conditions we're not sure about the mechanisms of. It's a lot of hit and miss because of that. Still, if you're not satisfied with the current approach, what do you propose we do? Just leave mentally ill people be, because you don't see their condition as a problem?

Studies have shown that those labeled "schizophrenic" who didnt take antipsychotic medications actually faired better in life over the long term. The medical model of mental illness is broken and doing more hurt then good. Alternatives? There are some but most institutions wont implement them because of fear of liability.

The whole dopamine theory is sad as well. There has been no conclusive proof yet it seems OK to shove these meds down the throats of patients who will later have more debilitating withdrawal psychosis because of the drugs. And dont forget that once your on these dopamine antagonists youll develop more dopamine to counter it and be left with an over influx of dopamine if you want to live without the drugs at one point. Thanks pharmaceuticals.

 

[Hilary]

I'mreally baffled by all the angry defense of pharmaceutical drugs that have hitor miss usefulness and long lists of debilitating and sometimes permanent sideeffects.

I doindeed see mental illness as a growing problem in which the currently acceptedstandards of care fail miserably for too many people. That is exactly thereason I would pursue effective non-pharmaceutical treatments, and look forlogical organic causes to mental illness (i.e. neurotoxins like caffeine,nicotine, and alcohol, and other possible causes such as THC, heavy metals,pesticides, too much stress, food allergies or food sensitivities, vitamin ormineral deficiencies or imbalances). Why does that upset you so?

Belligerentis right on about our current lack of understanding about brain function. But I don't think that we are doing our best. I believe we are lining thepockets of pharmaceutical companies. Yes, some drugs work sometimes. But they all have side effects. People quit taking their drugs all thetime because they'd rather live with their illness than with the effects oftheir drugs, some of which are no better than chemical frontal lobotomies.

 

[Boku_]

In my opinion, schizophrenia is not a diagnosis, it is merely a description of a collection of symptoms which have an organic cause that can be easily reversed once the cause is identified and treated (and not with pharmaceuticals).

I'd be interested to know how you could reverse the affect's of schizophrenia when the condition is known to have no cure, yes having psychotherapy to discuss the issues and social events that triggered the schizo condition can be help a person cope better but once you have been diagnosed i'd say there is a 99.99 percent chance you will need meds for life. Unless of course Hilary you are promoting the church of Scientology approach to mental illness that says you shouldn't take any medication and just nut it out no matter how psychotic you feel. Not to mention you should have intense counselling sessions while paying thousand's of dollars for self help books. Talk about wacko