Hell yes, what makes you think this would have any real effect at all?
So, like, does that mean if I just do heroin ever other day (not evvverydayy cmon guis, repeatedly, I will totally avoid being subject to all of that tolerance I hear is a bitch? NO!? you're no fun I'm just going back to drinking
Doing more of a class of chemical, causes the effects linked to..increased consumption of that chemical, and other structurally similar drugs as well (cross-tolerance).
The theory that the drugs with sharp peaks and crashes, as well as shorter half lives (High hill to flat ground ratio you know) often lead to a compulsive need to constantly re-dose, hence almost exponentially growing consumption and therefore tolerance, and, as compared to other drugs with long peaks and smooth slopes, the dose increase, and often the tolerance is much more slowly accumulating...but, its there. For me, I'm poor, Phenazepam for drool
I am not sure if you were being a little aggressive in your first statement. I was just looking for some advice, as I am new to benzos. The rest of your post was a little hard to understand, but I think I got the jist of it. Thanks for your reply
I have my own theory in which I think the occasional use of a short-life benzo has less impact on tolerance and withdrawal than the longer acting ones. Why not the longer the half life the more time your body has to build tolerance and addiction to it? Valium is going to work for a long time in your body yet the effects wear off after a few hours. Perhaps this is due to tolerance developing.
But you say you are developing tolerance anyway so I'd watch out and quit while you can. Your sleeping issues will get worse along with the more tolerance it builds. There must be a natural ligand for the bzd receptor made in the body that is not going to perform its function correctly after benzo use.
Thanks for your reply. Based off what you said, does this mean that my tolerance to Flunitrazepam will forever make it more difficult for me to fall asleep, or if I stay off it for good, it will come back to normal?
When I said I suffer from severe insomnia, there was actually a little more to it. The condition I have is often described as
Non-24-hour sleep-wake syndrome. If you don't feel like reading all that, it basically means that my natural internal clock is wired at 36 hours. 24 hours being awake, and 8 hours sleeping. If a day consisted of 36 hours, I wouldn't need any medication at all. Apparently, melatonin supplements helps with this, but they are illegal where I live.
Ideally you want to learn how to deal with social anxiety and GAD without medication. I am sure you already know this. But if you were to switch to a weaker benzo than rohypnol, I wouldn't say it would be ineffective. Therapeutic effects can still be present without the feeling of intoxication. Sometimes this lack of "feeling it" can be translated to thinking that the drug is not working, which isn't necessarily the case.
Benzos work best when used short term, but the reality is that some people need benzos for life basically, in order to function properly and carry on with a normal life at work, home, etc. I feel like I am one of those people, as well. So I sympathize with your situation, and wish I had better answers or the solution to your problem.
Personally, since we seem quite similar, by preferred benzo regimen is diazapam or clonazapam. Diazapam, because of the added muscle relaxation properties it possess. Dosing in the morning when I wake up, and then in the evening is what I do, which allows me to have the therapeutic value of the drug be effective for the work day, and the evening dose helps me when I go out and socialize, and helps sleep as well. Twice daily, or perhaps even three times, allows peak plasma levels to build up and have an effective dose working for the maximum time.
It is a double edged sword, though, unfortunately.. Chronic benzo use certainly helps when used responsibly, but if for some reason you get cut off or run out or whatever you are pretty much fucked. I have been through bad benzo withdrawal before and it is no fun. Opiate withdrawal is childs play in comparison.
I see that you can only see your doctor every forty-five days, but surely you can call him, no? He shouldn't have a problem discussing these issues with you via telephone.
My usage of benzos is roughly every 3 days. I am not sure if this means I'll be fucked when I stop taking them. There was a period a few months ago when I stopped taking Fluni completely, and started taking Mirtazapine in in its place. It did wonders at fighting back the withdrawal symptoms, but the social anxiety was still there.
I can't really call my doctor unfortunately. The most I can do is send him an e-mail asking for a prescription and explaining the reason I need it.
I do agree with you that ideally I should seek treatment for GAD without benzos, although without them, it would take me forever to give my psychologist the right answers due to anxiety. I would need a lot more therapy sessions, and simply would not be able to afford paying for them all, be it on a short or long term basis. I really don't know what to do about this, it feels as if I'm trapped.
^Brokedown makes a good point, a lot of people think benzos "aren't working anymore" because they don't feel any effects. This is obviously different for people who use benzos recreationally and people who use benzos medically. I realize there is a large group of people who use them for both purposes (I am one of those people). Don't get sucked into thinking that your benzo isn't working just because you aren't feeling it.
In general, as Brokedown said, the longer-acting benzos are better for reducing how quickly your tolerance goes up, at least in my experience. I used to use alprazolam (Xanax, prescribed), and even though that benzo is very much a "peaks and valleys" benzo, my tolerance was increasing quicker and my anxiety was up and down with the effects of the Xanax. Xanax also completely erased my memory, I don't know if that's a problem with flunitrazepam or not but just wanted to throw that out there, shorter-acting benzos tend to do that. I tried SSRIs for a minute, horrible sexual side effects, not for me.
Got switched to lorazepam which is nicer, I've been on it for almost a year now and 0.5mg still works wonders for stopping anxiety right in its tracks, 1.0mg for a serious anxiety attack. So, tolerance can be kept down with sparse use and understanding that even though you don't feel the intoxicating/recreational effects of the benzo in question, it is most likely still working its magic.
Short version:
Benzos are the ultimate double-edged sword, please treat them with respect and only use them when you need them. If another drug works for helping you sleep, I say give that a shot. Your doctor should be understanding in regards to this. Good luck
Thanks for your thoughts! When I say that Flunitrazepam isn't working anymore, all I really mean is that it's not putting me to sleep, at all. Its social anxiety relief is still present the next day, strangely enough. As I mentioned earlier, my psychiatrist and I have gone through a long list of non-benzos to help me sleep, none of which worked except for Mirtazapine. However, it does not help with social anxiety, nor with my therapy sessions. I prefer going to work not having slept at all than having taken Mirtazapine the night before, as it leaves me completely zombified and unproductive.
Would you mind elaborating a little on your lorazepam usage? How often do you use it? Do you take it at night or during the day? I've noticed that a small dosage of Flunitrazepam in the morning helps me with anxiety throughout the day. I was thinking about doing this three times a week, while making use of a non-benzo other than Mirtazapine for sleep (which I have yet to find). I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to take Flunitrazepam three times a week in the mornings, in terms of tolerance and dependence, though. Thanks again.
Most of this questions are not really for us to decide, since giving an answer is forcing me/us to 'play doctor' while we don't know your situation and have no mental healthcare background. I'll give my opinion on the matter anyway, but please keep in mind it is just my opinion and you should at least give your doctor a call before making drastic changes to your drug regimen.
I think you'll be best off if you only resort to benzo if you have a real anxiety attack. The baseline anxiety you are feeling everyday seems to be (in my opinion) more related to your benzo dependence than that it is intrinsic anxiety. Since dependence and tolerance go hand-in-hand, your general anxiety will decrease as your tolerance is degenerating. Of course it is shitty to feel anxious all day, but suppressing this anxiety with your benzo is only making matters worse - eventually you might end up in a situation were you can't do anything without taking large amounts of benzo's.
Tolerance in case of benzodiazepines is always a general tolerance, so if you are tolerant to flunitrazepam you are also tolerant to diazepam etc. etc. However, it is not necessarily so that a lower potency benzodiazepine is absolutely useless once you have a tolerance. You just need more to reach the desired effect, but it's not like you should switch to more and more potent alternatives because of tolerance. Furthermore, switching to a lower potency substance gives you chance to lose the tolerance - but only if you can refrain from dosing too much.
BTW, as far as science knows there is no natural ligand for the BZD receptor. In fact, the BZD is just another name for the GABAa receptor subtype that has a binding site for benzodiazepines. But unlike most other drugs that bind to receptors, benzodiazepines do not activate but alter the conformation of the receptor protein, so it has a greater affinity for GABA. Therefore it does not mimic the endogenous ligand, it potentiates the effect of this ligand.
Thank you, I appreciate your reply. My anxiety issues are linked to childhood psychological problems, which I am dealing with my psychologist. Before I started taking Flunitrazepam, I still suffered from anxiety and had a lot of difficulty dealing with the social environment at work. Same case with the insomnia. It has always taken me between 4 and 8 hours rolling around in bed until I could finally sleep, even before I started taking any sleep medication. This drug was my last resort to not losing my job due to both insomnia and anxiety. I have tried lower potency benzos such as Diazepam and Zolpidem. Diazepam was as good as placebo, and Zolpidem built up tolerance way too quickly (but I made way too frequent use of it), not to mention it made irritable the next day. I will definitely not try a more potent benzo, as you do raise a valid point. Right now I am only looking for an alternative that will not make me lose my job due to lack of sleep or poor relationship with my co-workers.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Yes, tolerance will still built even if you take it every 72 hours (this is the case with all benzos, but especially with short acting ones).
Flunitrazepam is not a good benzo for daytime anxiety. Flunitrazepam, like triazolam, midazolam, temazepam, etc is meant for severe insomnia. They are highly sedative benzos that will knock you right into tomorrow. You'd be better off with something like diazepam for daytime anxiety. Clonazepam is another good choice.
Thank you for clarifying that for me. Based on my own experience, I find a low dosage (2mg) of Flunitrazepam in the morning does not make me sleepy at all. It just relieves anxiety. Diazepam, as I mentioned in my previous post, had no effect on me. I haven't tried Clonazepam, so I suppose that is something I could look into. Thanks!
