Harm Reduction DMSO with Amphetamines to reduce DA toxicity?

[CFC]

I note that in clinical research DMSO (dimethylsulfoxide) is given as a prophylactic during the study of methylamphetamine in order to eliminate/reduce its toxicity on the dopamine system in the brain. It does this by scavenging the hydroxyl free radicals that are produced and appear to be responsible for the toxicity.

My question is, is this something that anybody here has experimented with... And to what effect? ie. did you recover quicker afterwards, or perhaps avoid suffering from any depressed/moody periods in the days following? Did it reduce desensitisation or increase your sensitivity to MA?

FWIW I'm presently (at the moment) exploring this prophylactic method myself, using 5ml of DMSO and a relatively mild amount of MA. All I have to speak for it so far is the notorious garlicky taste that you get from DMSO!

 

[sekio]

DMSO isn't a really very good radical scavenger. It's pretty inert as compounds go - actually a better solvent than a nutrient. You'd probably be better off with vitamins C and E as antioxidants.

Early clinical trials with DMSO were stopped because of questions about its safety, especially its ability to harm the eye. The most commonly reported side effects include headaches and burning and itching on contact with the skin. Strong allergic reactions have been reported. In high concentrations, DMSO can be fatal to humans. Industrial-grade DMSO is sometimes contaminated with other substances. DMSO can cause contaminants, toxins, and medicines to be absorbed through the skin, which may cause unexpected effects. DMSO is thought to increase the effects of blood thinners, steroids, heart medicines, sedatives, and other drugs. In some cases this could be harmful or dangerous.[23] It is neurotoxic.[26] [...] DMSO exposure to developing mouse brains can produce brain degeneration.[31] This neurotoxicity could be detected at doses as low as 0.3 mL/kg, a level exceeded in children exposed to DMSO during certain medical treatments.

Also, the Pubmed paper. Even a 1% solution was enough to produce brain damage in rats.

I woul not smear myself with DMSO if you paid me to; it's turned into dimethyl sulfide in the body, and aside from smelling awful it's also a toxic compound...

 

[CFC]

Hi Sekio, many thanks for your reply. I am actually aware of that paper but, to my knowledge, there haven't been any reports of neurotoxicity in 'developed' adult mammalian brains with the use of DMSO? I'd be happily corrected, although that paper in itself obviously does give pause for thought.

There's actually a fairly large community of health-orientated individuals who have been using DMSO habitually for decades both internally and topically in differing quantities for its various purported health benefits, especially for inflammatory joint conditions. No negative reports have surfaced that I am aware of about any harmful effects.

Even the FDA banning of the compound was on the basis of 2 issues now seen as dubious grounds for control (a single Irish woman who in 1965 it was believed may have died as a result of use on a sprained wrist, though without any autopsy or causal relationship being established; and secondly, evidence that in dogs and rabbits - and only in dogs and rabbits - it could cause harm to the eyes). Recently (2007) it's been fast-tracked for therapeutic use in traumatic brain injury, and has been legally prescribed for many years in the treatment of interstitial cystitis.

Your opinion of its effect with regards to free radical scavenging really interests me though. I wonder why it's used clinically for its ability to mop up hydroxyl free radicals in the body if Vitamin E or C are superior? Can you point me to any research that I can read regarding its efficacy? I'd be interested to get some more depth on that subject.

 

[sekio]

There is evidence showing that DMSO is a radical scavenger, but given the very nature of the substance I would not feel very comfortable using it. (The same studies suggest glycerin is a radical scavenger too). I would gravitate towards the well-known food-safe antioxidants - flavonoids, ascorbate, curcumin, vitamin E, CoQ10 et cetera.

I just don't see a real good reason to administer DMSO, neat, when there are compounds that don't turn into sulfides that work just as well for antioxidant purposes.

 

[CFC]

Thanks for the reply Sekio. Yes, I do completely agree with you!

The origin of my question stems from several studies I've read over the years, and another just recently, where DMSO had been administered, or discussed as if it was common knowledge that it is used to, attenuate neurotoxicity from MA administration. Hence me wondering if it is somehow known to be more efficacious than more well-known anti-oxidants. The targeted hydroxyl free radical has always been (if I remember correctly) 2,3-DHBA. Perhaps DMSO has unusual (and thus for clinical purposes useful) affinity to it.

Anyway, the point you raised is interesting, clearly DMSO's ability as an anti-oxidant is something I need to do a lot more research about.

 

[PANDAmonium]

I'd like to chime in. During my undergrad research (Biochemistry), I had to work with DMSO very, very frequently (extracting individual proteins involved in photosynthesis). DMSO used to be use as a treatment for arthritis. It was applied to the skin as an ointment. The FDA took it off the market when those who used it experienced PERMANENT nerve damage on their hands and wrists, and anywhere they would apply DMSO. Please do not use this stuff regularly. It's fun to mix acid with DMSO every once in a while (it's acid you can ingest by rubbing on your skin - neat party trick), but it is definitely not safe to come into contact with it regularly.

 

[sekio]

It's fun to mix acid with DMSO every once in a while (it's acid you can ingest by rubbing on your skin - neat party trick)

It's all anecdote, but I heard via an Erowid page that Nick Sand, LSD chemist extraordinaire, tried this very thing (paint your skin with LSD in DMSO) but it didn't do anything.

 

[i are spectre]

my old professor told me it was banned because people started synthing it in their bathtubs... poorly.

this had, allegedly, resulted in harmful organometals etc behind handed a one way ticket to the human body via DMSO, first class.

 

[MartinFn]

Well, if someone rubs some DMSO on his arm, and stick a fent patch on it, what would happen, the patch would deliver all of it's contains at once? (Instead of delivering the fent slow and gradually in 3 days, as it's meant to..)..

MartinFn

 

[CFC]

I'd like to chime in. During my undergrad research (Biochemistry), I had to work with DMSO very, very frequently (extracting individual proteins involved in photosynthesis). DMSO used to be use as a treatment for arthritis. It was applied to the skin as an ointment. The FDA took it off the market when those who used it experienced PERMANENT nerve damage on their hands and wrists, and anywhere they would apply DMSO. Please do not use this stuff regularly. It's fun to mix acid with DMSO every once in a while (it's acid you can ingest by rubbing on your skin - neat party trick), but it is definitely not safe to come into contact with it regularly.

I can't find any evidence to back up the claims you make about such nerve damage and DMSO? The FDA did not ban it for the reason you state. Do you have any links I can read to support your claim? DMSO is still widely used (topically and internally) by people for arthritic ailments. In fact also as a treatment for nerve damage. Generally, there is scant evidence of ill effects from the use of DMSO; and the fatal dose is enormous. It seems to me that the 'toxic' aspect is being disportionately overblown without sufficient evidence, particularly given the large market/consumption of DMSO health supplements without shocking reports of ill effect.

Also, the DMSO I use is pharmaceutical grade, not industrial grade, and is thus devoid of potentially harmful contaminants. But that could be a concern for some people who don't realise this issue.

**********

Anyway, and back to the original topic for any who are interested, my experience of using DMSO with Meth (3 times now) has been nothing short of miraculous. I have no come down in the days after. No moodiness or depression. I don't get mad cravings for junk/comfort food afterwards. And motivation feels unaffected. I wouldn't say it's 'resensitised' me to meth at all. There's just a noticeable absence of nasty post-binge blues and no real 'recovery' period any more (apart from sleeping if I've been up all night).