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DL-AP4 dissociative?

T

toxide

Bluelighter
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Mar 21, 2006
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I donot have, but have access to several of 2amino_phospho_____ acids, the only affordable one being dl-ap4, unfortunatly the isolated isomers are waaaayyyy more expensive than the DL 2gether
According to my googling its a broad nonselective nmda antagonist however the L isomer appears to be a highly selective agonist but at only a couple specific sites. Ive seen it described as a weak/potent/and moderate nmda AA. ap5/7 seem to be the most popular among researchers.

Can anyone give me some thoughts on this. What I can expect from effects, IM dosage etc....?

I was also curious about some of the QXs(dnqx,cnqx,nbqx...) they're non-nmda AAs ? they effect the AMPA(quisqualate kainate) recepters. I have no clue on this nor do I really expect any1 to but if someone does no what's up with this that'd B qule.
 
Interesting, I have never heared of these compounds before today. Your descriptions are cryptic but searching dl-AP4 on pubchem yeilds something that looks like a phosphorylated aspartate thingy.

Not all NMDA antagonists have Ketamine-like dissociative effects. A prime example is Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa). It's alkaloids are NMDA-antagonists but it has no dissociative effects whatsoever, and I have done a lot of experimentation with it on myself (very good medicine, btw).

Things that affect AMPA receptors don't seem to be very interesting. I believe the Aniracetam is an AMPA agonist. I am not sure what AMPA antagonism would do (maybe it would make you stupid? :P just kidding), but there is a chance they might not be healthy...

Also searching pubchem for structures of that dnqx stuff you mention, and it lists it as an "excitatory amino acid antagonist". It sounds like poison to me...

Hope someone else could help you more.

Oh... and please don't go IMing something that is not even quoted in studies frequently!
 
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---WARNING--- DO NOT TAKE AMPA RECEPTOR ANTAGONISTS.

They are not recreational but they are extremely poisonous and cause coma relatively quickly... Likewise, AMPA receptor agonists cause seizures with an extremely step dose-response curve.

D,L-AP4 is a nonselective NMDA receptor and should not be taken under any circumstances...
 
^^^Yes, it is also competitive if I remember correctly, but I forget whether it's irreversible.

MK-801, ketamine, DXM, and PCP are all uncompetitive antagonists of the NMDA receptor. I don't remember whether ketamine, DXM, or PCP are irreversible, but MK-801 is. Until more is known, I really would not fuck with any glutamate receptor agonists/antagonists other than selective, use-dependent NMDA receptor pore blockers like the four aforementioned drugs.
 
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MK-801 isn't irreversible... and DXM ket and PCP sure aren't.
 
^^^Hmmm, odd. I've read MK-801 being referred to as "irreversible" in papers from several prominent, respected patch-clamp labs. It always seemed kind of fishy to me, but I thought these people would know their shit. Fuckin science these days, with egos so big they don't bother to check their facts.
 
BilZ0r said:
AMPA receptor agonists cause seizures with an
Click to expand...

what about the ampakine drugs, they seem to be very well tolerated in human subjects even at very high doses. (wait, are they ampa agonists? it's 6:55 am so i'm having some trouble remembering things right now, if i'm wrong just ignore this).
 
u haven't xplained why AP4 shouldn't b taken, that's what I'm asking about, I don't see why it would be bad
 
---WARNING--- DO NOT TAKE AMPA RECEPTOR ANTAGONISTS.

They are not recreational but they are extremely poisonous and cause coma relatively quickly... Likewise, AMPA receptor agonists cause seizures with an extremely step dose-response curve.
Click to expand...

AMPAkines are complicated, but even if we assume that they do work by positive modulation of AMPA receptors, we can assume it's like the difference between GABA-A agonists and benzos. Direct agonists have therapeutic indexes of like 2-4; benzos have therapetuic indexes of 10-50. i.e. Positive modulation is far less dangerous than direct agonism.
 
the QXs are antagonists, in the same vein as nueroprotectives such as nootropics and nmda antagonist etc...
 
You sure you don't mean CXs? The QXs (QX-314 etc) are sodium channel blockers. CXs are drugs made by Cortex Pharmaceuticals

CX614 seems to effect desensitization [1] and CX546 seems to be more like a benzo [2]; but neither of them are anywhere near antagonists...
 
yeah QXs :NBQX,DNQX,CNQX.... I remember reading something about joro spider toxin 3(JSTX3) being a relatively safe/potent immobilizing agent however I'm not sure if that would apply to humans or not but it's an ampa antagonist at the QA+KA sites and vinpocetine is a KA(kainate) antagonist
 
Oh those ones... yeah, they're antagonists allright... but again, incredibley dangerous drugs to take systemically.
 
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