Opioids Dihydrocodeine to Dihydrodesomorphine??

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

So I'm probably wrong, but I've seen people online claim that Desomorphine is made by combining Codeine, Iodine and Red Phosphorous...so if I did the same thing with Dihydrocodeine....would it be THAT easy to turn it into Dihydrodesomorphine? Which would take it (DHC) from being 1/5 the potency of morphine to it (DHDM) being 10.7 x the potency of morphine?
I mean, I'd take it orally. I'm not gonna inject what's basically an oxidised Krokodil.

 

[Tryptamite]

Oxidised krokodil? I think you need to read a lot lot more about organic and opiate chemistry first.

Codeine to dihydrodesomorphine is notoriously low yeilding when done directly via HI.
Apparently starting with DHC instead increases general yield from 10-40ish per cent. Although it is a soup of iodo/codides and iodo/ morphides, methyldesorphine etc.

Russian to english google translate is your friend. Search "codeine screw".

This is probably too close to synthesis talk but there is plenty of hypothetical info out there. As something practical I would not advise it. Even as an oral drug. Opiates are not hardy molecules like pseudo/ephedrine.

 

[Fairy of the Flowers]

Yes he's right it sounds like ingredients for Krocadil but they also throw in vegetable oil and stuff too, I'd not risk it, I can't see how DHC can turn into anything like morphine, but then it turns into morphine when you take it don't it, I used to get told heroin was codeine and morphine mixed together, this was before we had Internet in homes, man I sound old I'm still not sure how true that is lol

hmm interesting but nah don't go taking that mix

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Yes he's right it sounds like ingredients for Krocadil but they also throw in vegetable oil and stuff too, I'd not risk it, I can't see how DHC can turn into anything like morphine, but then it turns into morphine when you take it don't it, I used to get told heroin was codeine and morphine mixed together, this was before we had Internet in homes, man I sound old I'm still not sure how true that is lol

hmm interesting but nah don't go taking that mix

Well, if you oxide DHC you get Hydrocodone (and if you oxidise THAT you get Oxycodone).
If you demethylise DHC you get Dihydromorphine.
So there's a few ways.

I'm just in a LOT of pain and it's too long a story to go into it, but I'm definitely not getting anything more than my DHC so I'm willing to try anything to try and chemically turn it into a stronger opioid.

 

[Fairy of the Flowers]

@ChemicallyEnhanced that's really cool I didn't know that, I don't know how to do that though but that's very interesting, I don't get hardly any, actually almost no pain relief from codeine even in high doses, not had DHC for ages, felt like I was pooping glass or razor blades so nope didn't take that for long, I'd try it again now if I could afford it for my fibromyalgia but like you say it's not that much a good a painkiller, well not for fibromyalgia it's not, I forgot what your pain condition is?

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

@ChemicallyEnhanced that's really cool I didn't know that, I don't know how to do that though but that's very interesting, I don't get hardly any, actually almost no pain relief from codeine even in high doses, not had DHC for ages, felt like I was pooping glass or razor blades so nope didn't take that for long, I'd try it again now if I could afford it for my fibromyalgia but like you say it's not that much a good a painkiller, well not for fibromyalgia it's not, I forgot what your pain condition is?

No, don't get me wrong: DHC is an excellent pain killer. Just not strong enough for me personally. It's twice as strong as Codeine, but I'd still say 120mg DHC provides a lot more pain relief than 240mg Codeine. Codeine does nothing for me pain, either (nor Tramadol).
I have multiple forms of chronic pain.
1) Pancreatitis
2) Two herniated disks
3) Osteoarthritis
4) My G.P. is unsure whether it is Fibromyalgia or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

 

[Fairy of the Flowers]

Yeah that's alot of pain conditions, won't your doctor give you fent patches then? Some doctors in UK give that to people with fibromyalgia and there's me only being gave naproxen lol, I don't get anything decent for fibromyalgia so not tried DHC for it yet, maybe it would help, I know tramadol did but I'm not allowed that either, tight ass UK doctors lol

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Yeah that's alot of pain conditions, won't your doctor give you fent patches then? Some doctors in UK give that to people with fibromyalgia and there's me only being gave naproxen lol, I don't get anything decent for fibromyalgia so not tried DHC for it yet, maybe it would help, I know tramadol did but I'm not allowed that either, tight ass UK doctors lol

DHC is twice as strong as Tramadol
I have a history of addiction, so my doctor has said I will never, ever be prescribed morphine or anything as stronger, or stronger than, morphine
I get Naproxen, too, but only because I specifically asked for it.

 

[Fairy of the Flowers]

DHC is twice as strong as Tramadol

Is it, I liked tramadol, it made my anxiety and low moods much better and then after a about 6 and towards end of the day the buzzy feeling would go and I'd be all gouched out, I didn't get that on DHC

have a history of addiction

Same, it's probably why I'm not allowed anything good, which is worse as they push me to buy stuff online, I get nothing for anxiety, depression or insomia and nothing for fibromyalgia so what do they expect me to do, wankers

Same as you, look what they are pushing you into, coming up with concoctions to make the DHC work stronger

Other people turn to heroin and stuff for pain because of doctors, piss take

 

[negrogesic]

Don't try to consume some homebake opioid, its a recipe for disaster. And if you have to ask you aren't probably aren't for such an attempt any how. I closed the other thread but i'll leave this open for now provided there is no detailed synthesis talk.

On a different though vaguely related note, what the heck is the drug are these russians making here:

Boltushka: a homemade amphetamine-type stimulant and HIV risk in Odessa, Ukraine - PubMed

Although Ukrainian government regulations have limited access to precursor chemicals, IDUs have continued to make and use boltushka. The actual extent and demographics of boltushka use are unknown. Besides risk of bloodborne disease, the health effects of injected homemade ATSs and their...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Would this produce cathine? Cathinone maybe?

 

[4meSM]

It may seem simple on paper but there are multiple steps that have to be performed properly in order to have a clean product. You can't just mix everything together and consume the resulting "soup" (doing that could very well kill you).

First you would need to get proper reagents, then you'd have to isolate the DHC/codeine from your pills and figure out the proper way to carry out the synthesis. And of course you would have to purify the resulting desomorphine to get rid of the excess reagents as well as the potential side products, etc...

If you can't do all of that then don't bother, honestly it would be better to just go and buy heroin (which is probably a very bad idea as well).

Honestly it sounds like you're just looking for a stronger and more euphoric opioid, otherwise "cooking" homemade desomorphine from perfectly fine DHC pills isn't a reliable way to treat chronic pain in the medium-long term (or even in the short term).
You said DHC is a very good painkiller but still not enough, maybe you should consult with a pain specialist and look for other ways to treat your chronic pain. Strong opioids are not always the best solution.

 

[4meSM]

On a different though vaguely related note, what the heck is the drug are these russians making here:

Boltushka: a homemade amphetamine-type stimulant and HIV risk in Odessa, Ukraine - PubMed

Although Ukrainian government regulations have limited access to precursor chemicals, IDUs have continued to make and use boltushka. The actual extent and demographics of boltushka use are unknown. Besides risk of bloodborne disease, the health effects of injected homemade ATSs and their...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Would this produce cathine? Cathinone maybe?

Looks like the main product would indeed be cathinone but who knows what else is in those cold medication pills.

Why do eastern and northern europeans have such crazy injection practices? I feel like they will IV almost anything over there, like it's the only way to do drugs. It's like you aren't a true drug user unless you're IVing random shit.

It's just something I've noticed over the years but never truly understood it.

 

[negrogesic]

Looks like the main product would indeed be cathinone but who knows what else is in those cold medication pills.

Why do eastern and northern europeans have such crazy injection practices? I feel like they will IV almost anything over there, like it's the only way to do drugs. It's like you aren't a true drug user unless you're IVing random shit.

It's just something I've noticed over the years but never truly understood it.

Whoops i just saw that the article explicitly mentioned cathinone.

First time ive heard of an illicit cathinone synth.

 

[DKs]

Re OP:

If you look at the corresponding molecules, you'd realise that the proton you are referring to with the dihydro- is already missing in the desomorphine structure, nways. So, not very clear what you'd even want to arrive at... I wouldn't try this. There is a home-bake O-demethylation with pyridine which might work and yield dihydromorphine, but no idea how well that really works. You could, with a strong oxidising agent, like sulfuric acid and some catalyst get oxycodone when cooked under reflux. And again: I wouldn't try, but all of these are more easy than what you're trying to propose here. As other's pointed out: organic chemistry is not simple. In general. Not easy, even for researchers with experience.

EDIT: Btw: forget the way you're adding the potency! Imagine you could end up, if with an actual opioid at all, with something several hundred or thousand times more potent... You'd really want to do something someone has done before and well researched.

 

[G_Chem]

Yup that process indeed will make cathinone. Interesting cuz I’ve known of such procedure but never heard of it being attempted by anyone... I’d be curious to see some experience reports on it.. I’m sure it’ll feel different to khat.

Also I don’t mean to be rude but based on some of the other posts, you’ve got a lot of reading and learning to do still before even trying something like your describing. @ChemicallyEnhanced

And I mean that in the most positive way, you seem to enjoy learning about chemistry and already have some beginning foundation just keep pouring over all the literature you can find. Attempt some easier synthesis first.

The Hive Archive has all the info you seek on this topic.

-GC

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

Yup that process indeed will make cathinone. Interesting cuz I’ve known of such procedure but never heard of it being attempted by anyone... I’d be curious to see some experience reports on it.. I’m sure it’ll feel different to khat.

Also I don’t mean to be rude but based on some of the other posts, you’ve got a lot of reading and learning to do still before even trying something like your describing. @ChemicallyEnhanced

And I mean that in the most positive way, you seem to enjoy learning about chemistry and already have some beginning foundation just keep pouring over all the literature you can find. Attempt some easier synthesis first.

The Hive Archive has all the info you seek on this topic.

-GC

Thanks for all your patient support, G
And gurl, I took it positive. When it comes to Chemistry I'm SUPER new. In the words of Tara Reid "I make Jessica Simpson look like a rock scientist!". But I'm fascinated and trying to learn. I'm very interested in pharmacology and have been for years so I'm hoping my knowledge of pharmaceuticals will at least somewhat transfer and be applicable to some of this chemical stuff
I really just am desperate to make my DHC stronger because of pain. So it's not like I'm trying to pull a Walter White (albeit which much shadier quality product) or get high. I just wanna not hurt and maybe sleep for once.

I'll definitely check out The Hive Archive.

 

[G_Chem]

Unfortunately right now the Erowid Archive is down but I think Earth is working on it. There’s others about..

If I was you, I’d forget anything “deso” and demethylate to dihydromorphine followed by creating some ester. Acetyl ester maybe, but the mono benzoyl ester is easy for someone at home to accomplish. (Google benzoylmorphine and look for some old references which describe its synthesis.)

I can tell you, 6-benzoyl dihydromorphine is aworthwhile drug to pursue.

-GC

 

[negrogesic]

Well I think this thread has pretty much run its course

The real moral of the story is do not attempt a homebake if you don't possess significant experience in such matters. The risk of poisoning onself is tremendous.