Stimulants Different ROA - different effects

[Lendy]

Contrary to popular belief, different routes of administration differ not only in the time of onset of the peak, the shade of the effect itself is also different. There are substances that work best through a certain ROA, but this is a matter of taste.
For example, MDMA will reveal itself fully only when consumed orally; d,l-amphetamine is simply designed for intranasal use. For a while I preferred oral intake, but lately I find it too hard on the body, the physical stimulation is too tiring. But with intranasal use, everything is different - I feel lightness and ease, the peripheral nervous system does not bother me at all with excessive activity. Mentally, intranasal administration is much more manic, I assume that when taken orally, l-amphetamine acts predominantly in the periphery, and when administered intranasally, most of it is distributed to the brain (nose-to-brain pathway); Oral keeps me constantly in motion or in mental cycles, while intranasal gives me much more headspace. In addition, I feel as if my mental activity is accelerated significantly; when taken orally, on the contrary, I am confused due to excessive peripheral load. This often leads to impaired visual perception (palinopsia, double vision), which never happens with intranasal use.

 

[UK Warrior]

I don't know much about d,l-amphetamine but I am sure when used intranasaly (Insufflated) it isn't the nose to brain pathway, the idea that drugs go straight to your brain when sniffed is a myth, the drug is actually absorbed by the mucus membranes lining your nasal cavity.

It may be that less is absorbed when you insufflate the drug, leading to less side effects as you have mentioned.

 

[Lendy]

I don't know much about d,l-amphetamine but I am sure when used intranasaly (Insufflated) it isn't the nose to brain pathway, the idea that drugs go straight to your brain when sniffed is a myth, the drug is actually absorbed by the mucus membranes lining your nasal cavity.

This is not a myth, this is really possible. The olfactory/trigeminal nerves in the upper part of the nasal cavity can deliver the substance directly to the central nervous system. I can't speak to the effectiveness of this delivery when inhaled, but I can snort a lot more than I can eat, so I daresay it works to some extent.

It may be that less is absorbed when you insufflate the drug, leading to less side effects as you have mentioned.

I meant that IN feels more effective on the brain and not so much on the body. Although oral administration is also good and has its own unique advantages. In fact, it’s hard to say which is better, but in my opinion combining them together would be the best option. Thus, there is no need to wait for the start, the action is more intense and deep, and all the benefits of each ROA are summed up

 

[Hexenstahl]

Man, I'll never forget that short but hardcore 3-month period in my life of the ever escalating, super-intense-ultra-extreme-downward-spiral-of-doom, when I started shooting coke. When I switched from my rare use of sniffing cocaine on special occasions only (like christmas, new year, birthday, or the death of someone I hated) to injecting blow...oh holy moly guttery lowly. That's the most fiendish drug ROA you can possibly do. It ain't like a normal addiction process whereby the addiction develops over time...hell no, you're INSTANTLY hooked. I shot my coke and directly after that I already started preparing my next shot. I kept shooting every 5 minutes every day, binging for days and days without any sleep until I collapsed from exhaustion and the first thing I thought about after waking up was continuing to shoot coke. Even while sleeping coke didn't leave me alone as I always dreamed about shooting coke. Those were the roughest and lowliest 3 months of my life and I did some seriously fucked up things while pumped up on cocaine (with doing fucked up things I mean morally messed up things). I have also never burned so much money in my life. I probably spent more money on cocaine in those 3 months than spending money on heroin in 5 years! Thousands and thousands upon thousands of euros.

Thank god I was never an upper type of girl and never really liked any substance class except opioids (I don't do anything except Polamidon these days. I have lost all interest in any substance class outside of opioids and I'm glad about it - well, except RSO which is full spectrum cannabinoid oil but that is something I only take in therapeutic doses to prevent ever getting cancer and not take dosages that get me high) otherwise cocaine would have killed me by now. If I was a stim type of person I would have ended up homeless if I had continued doing coke for a few more months. I have never stolen anything from my mom even during the most intense opioid wds, but cocaine made me steal one of her diamond rings, something I regret to this day even though I bought it back a few years later by working my ass off and selling off 90% of my valuables. She forgave me long before I bought it back but I was never able to forgive myself and even while she was on her death bed telling me that I finally need to overcome my guilt, I still was ashamed to look into her eyes.

Please, if you do coke stick to snorting it but don't ever switch to shooting. That drug mutates into a completely different beast. Those cravings are the worst thing you can possibly imagine. In fact you don't know what cravings are, what carpet surfing at 3am in the morning truly means, if you have never IVed the white devil. It's ok to enjoy coke. It's a nice drug to take on occasion and in moderation in a social setting with people you like and trust, but please please do NOT shoot it! You will regret doing the horrible things down the road that will inevitably happen regardless of how morally upstanding you think you are right now. I've seen IV cokeheads including me do the most abhorrent, inhumane shit while fuelled on this stuff, and I'm NOT talking about stealing money from grannies...

 

[Lendy]

Man, I'll never forget that short but hardcore 3-month period in my life of the ever escalating, super-intense-ultra-extreme-downward-spiral-of-doom, when I started shooting coke. When I switched from my rare use of sniffing cocaine on special occasions only (like christmas, new year, birthday, or the death of someone I hated) to injecting blow...oh holy moly guttery lowly. That's the most fiendish drug ROA you can possibly do. It ain't like a normal addiction process whereby the addiction develops over time...hell no, you're INSTANTLY hooked. I shot my coke and directly after that I already started preparing my next shot. I kept shooting every 5 minutes every day, binging for days and days without any sleep until I collapsed from exhaustion and the first thing I thought about after waking up was continuing to shoot coke. Even while sleeping coke didn't leave me alone as I always dreamed about shooting coke. Those were the roughest and lowliest 3 months of my life and I did some seriously fucked up things while pumped up on cocaine (with doing fucked up things I mean morally messed up things). I have also never burned so much money in my life. I probably spent more money on cocaine in those 3 months than spending money on heroin in 5 years! Thousands and thousands upon thousands of euros.

Thank god I was never an upper type of girl and never really liked any substance class except opioids (I don't do anything except Polamidon these days. I have lost all interest in any substance class outside of opioids and I'm glad about it - well, except RSO which is full spectrum cannabinoid oil but that is something I only take in therapeutic doses to prevent ever getting cancer and not take dosages that get me high) otherwise cocaine would have killed me by now. If I was a stim type of person I would have ended up homeless if I had continued doing coke for a few more months. I have never stolen anything from my mom even during the most intense opioid wds, but cocaine made me steal one of her diamond rings, something I regret to this day even though I bought it back a few years later by working my ass off and selling off 90% of my valuables. She forgave me long before I bought it back but I was never able to forgive myself and even while she was on her death bed telling me that I finally need to overcome my guilt, I still was ashamed to look into her eyes.

Please, if you do coke stick to snorting it but don't ever switch to shooting. That drug mutates into a completely different beast. Those cravings are the worst thing you can possibly imagine. In fact you don't know what cravings are, what carpet surfing at 3am in the morning truly means, if you have never IVed the white devil. It's ok to enjoy coke. It's a nice drug to take on occasion and in moderation in a social setting with people you like and trust, but please please do NOT shoot it! You will regret doing the horrible things down the road that will inevitably happen regardless of how morally upstanding you think you are right now. I've seen IV cokeheads including me do the most abhorrent, inhumane shit while fuelled on this stuff, and I'm NOT talking about stealing money from grannies...

A little off topic, but no matter. I take amphetamine with memantine to prevent compulsive redosing.
IV is apparently good for coke, but not for amphetamine, from what I've heard. I don’t think you were feeling high all this time because your reward system was destroyed, but the brain still remembers the coke = reward relationship and strives to repeat it. I don’t know about cocaine, but with amphetamine it was pure hell - repeated dosing after a certain point did almost nothing, and the reward deficit forced me to dose again and again, despite the fact that it didn’t help at all.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @Lendy

Basically, what we're talking about here is the study of Pharmacokinetics. Kinesiology is the study of movement, essentially, so we can call Pharmacokinetics the study of how pharmaceuticals/drugs/substances "move" throughout the body. This "movement" has a literal meaning, though it also refers to the more complex chemical processes said substance goes through as it moves to the different organs of the body.

Your experience is your own and I do not discount that one bit. You have certain experiences from certain ROA's and I'm not challenging that. I do want to say that if you really want to learn about this stuff, even just a wikipedia article on pharmacokinetics would be extremely eye-opening to you. A drug is ultimately going to end up circulating in the blood and getting to the brain regardless of how you introduce it. I can put a drug in my rectum or in my mouth and it's going to ultimately end up in the same place, funny right?

Racemic/D,L Amphetamine is going to produce effects of both isomers regardless of the ROA. Again, I'll say your experience is your own. The science behind it might be different than your understanding though.

@Hexenstahl yea this is definitely true with Cocaine. It's pretty crazy how the same drug can be used at say, the White House prior to a National Security meeting if used intranasally, when to smoke (vaporize) it or to inject it is an instant ticket to fully-compulsive usage.

I think of other substances as more linear than this. An Opioid or Amphetamine user will gradually move from the weaker ROA to the next and they end up injecting for essentially the same experience they had when they were taking the stuff orally. The Rush of an injection is an important sidebar, but we won't dive into that here.