Benzos Diazepam dependence?

[bampot]

I've been taking benzos off and on now for a few years...never in large amounts - mostly just for comedowns or sleepless nights; sometimes to enhance a few drinks. For the last couple of years I've stuck to valium (well, generic diazepam), and I'd say I have probably averaged 30mg-40mg/week, usually taken in doses of either 5mg or 10mg at a time, 20mg maximum. Typically 2 days using 10mg, and 2 using 5mg each week.

I've just been reading quite a lot about dependency, and am a bit worried...I've always been aware of the potential, but have been of the view that if I don't get any withdrawal symptoms in 3 days or so of not taking any, then I can't be addicted. However, I didn't take into account the insanely long half-life of dizepam (up to 100 hours!), and have now read of cases where withdrawals haven't presented for up to 3 weeks.

I plan to cut it out for at least a week and see how I feel, but as I say, I'm worried. Does anyone have similar experiences? I'm especially looking for cases of long-term, relatively low-dosage use, and whether physical dependence arose or not. Does anyone have experience of delayed realisation of addiction to valium? How long before withdrawals started? Or in your experience is it unlikely I would be addicted at these levels of use? I really do not need any more addictions at this point, and benzo withdrawal sounds like one of the worst there is.

Thanks for any advice.

 

[madog11]

I would definately say you're taking too much. Using more days than not in a week is a path to addiction. And it is very likely you are dependant. My reccomendation would be to cut it down to 3 days for a week, then 2 etc... you may still get some withdrawals but it's a lot safer than going cold turkey. That can be dangerous with benzos.

Have you been taking it 4 days a week for months or years? If it's years I would go a fornight between each day being removed from your use. DO NOT GO COLD TURKEY.

 

[bampot]

Thanks...it's bit difficult to say how much and for how long I've been using them, as it has varied greatly. However, I do know for a fact that 2 years ago I was definitely not addicted to benzos (I had a long period of not using them at all), and that for roughly the last 2 years it has probably averaged 30mg/week. I often go for 3/4 days with no use, but as I say, the long half-life has me worried.

If I am at all dependent, does anyone know how long until I can expect to feel any kind of withdrawal?

Sneaky drugs...

 

[madog11]

As i said, a taper is your best bet here. 3/4 days with no use means nothing. I think that if you drop a day a fortnight you actually shouldn't feel too much in the way of withdrawals.

 

[ErgicMergic]

^This is true, due to the long half life of Diazepam, withdrawal doesn't really fully kick in until day 5-7, and peaks at 10 days iirc.

Proceed with caution, these withdrawals will kick your ass, both mentally and physically.

 

[bampot]

OK...so if I go one week and feel no withdrawals, I can safely assume I am not physically dependent? If not, how long?

 

[madog11]

No, as i have said. Don't go cold turkey. Never go cold turkey with benzos! TAPER! As my advice above. It is incredibly dangerous to cold turkey benzos. I know its a very low dose but you can safely assume after using for such a long period of time 4 times a week you ARE dependant. No question about it.

 

[bampot]

OK...I have heard it is dangerous. However, as far as I have read there is no incidence of serious physical symptoms such as seizures unless the habit is very large and long-term (I fully accept that I may well be dependent, but this is certainly a relatively small habit). Plus the long half-life of diazepam means that withdrawals (if there are any) will come on gradually. Meaning that, surely, if I have some to hand, the worst I can expect is to start feeling pretty shitty, at which point I would take a small dose, and repeat?

Or are you suggesting I could actually just suddenly break down/have a seizure? I respect your concern and desire for damage limitation, but this seems a bit drastic!

 

[madog11]

Why is it drastic when you have been using 4 times a week to cut it down to 3 for a bit?

 

[bampot]

Well, mainly I would like to find out if I'm actually addicted first! And if I am, how bad the withdrawals would be. Call it inquisitiveness, or idiocy. But the more you know about a drug, the more you respect it in my opinion. If I just cut back gradually and experience no withdrawal symptoms, I am likely to assume that actually I wasn't using too much after all, which would probably be misleading...

I actually started this to get advice from others who have taken similar amounts over similar periods (eg "I took less than that and had withdrawals", or "I took more than that and wasn't dependent"), rather than advice for stopping (although don't get me wrong - I do appreciate it).

 

[-Guido-]

OK...I have heard it is dangerous. However, as far as I have read there is no incidence of serious physical symptoms such as seizures unless the habit is very large and long-term (I fully accept that I may well be dependent, but this is certainly a relatively small habit). Plus the long half-life of diazepam means that withdrawals (if there are any) will come on gradually. Meaning that, surely, if I have some to hand, the worst I can expect is to start feeling pretty shitty, at which point I would take a small dose, and repeat?

Or are you suggesting I could actually just suddenly break down/have a seizure? I respect your concern and desire for damage limitation, but this seems a bit drastic!

Diazepam itself has a half life of up to 100 hours. It's main active metabolite has a half life of up to 200 hours.

You could very well go into seizures and piss yourself on that habit. God forbid you have a small one in the bathroom, just for a few seconds, and crack your skull open on the bathroom counter and go unconscious. Big habit or not, you are dependent and there are going to be consequences and when it comes to drugs like benzos, they are drastic. Hopefully you won't have a seizure but I'm certain there will be anxiety, panic attacks, and other nasty symptoms.

Also if you have to question if you are addicted or not, you are addicted. Your best bet would be to taper or go to your doctor and tell them you fucked up.

 

[Anon54]

i hope i dont get in trouble for saying this but by the sounds of ya habit nothing will happen if u quit cold turkey. Id say the chance of having a seizure would be less than 1%. U have may get rebound anxiety but I dont think so
that just IMHO im sorry if anyone disagrees but ive been hooked to benzos before & valium is one that is was easy for me to quit. alot easier than than caffeine or cigarettes.
but u may as well taper anyway. better safe than sorry. u have the supply just taper anyway to atleast get rid of an re-bound anxiety which i rekon u may have a a fair chance of getting

Ive abused benzos for yrs. valium has never given me rebound anxiety. defensively not even close to a seizure. the only benzos that has given me a "taste of w/d was when I abused xanax for a while & just stopped. I was a little anxious. nothing as bad as a night out drinking though.

but I DO GET what benzo w/d can potentially be. If ya using more than 400mg of diaz a day for a few months than ya in trouble. but atleast it valium.
if ya using more than 20mg of Xanax for a few months well.... ud be dead if u didnt go to the ER.. well probably. lets make it 40mg. than u wouldnt make it if u just quit

Ive been a user of valium, temazepam, & valium. last dose of valium was 200mg the other day with GFJ & subutex. Ive had valium with alot of alcohol oxy & meth too. Dont drink with benzos. for some reason i actually get less drunk but its probably cuz im a little calmer & drink slower but everyones different. ive heard it can put some ppl in a coma
its VERY ADDICTED but it's also VERY HARD TO GET ADDICTED TOO.
so ive been using benzos for a few yrs. never a problem with w/d. but i someimtes go weeks without taking em

 

[weekend addiction]

Despite irresponsible habits I've had in the past I've only suffered w\d for about 24 hours on benzos. I hibernate by sleeping and not really eating or moving much. Next day I'm through the w\d and just have a higher level of anxiety that stays at the same level for weeks. I'm pretty young and healthy and I take lots of vitamins so that might be why its easier for me. Regardless of my lack of symptoms I know that quitting cold turkey is dangerous.

 

[tricomb]

i hope i dont get in trouble for saying this but by the sounds of ya habit nothing will happen if u quit cold turkey. Id say the chance of having a seizure would be less than 1%. U have may get rebound anxiety but I dont think so
that just IMHO im sorry if anyone disagrees but ive been hooked to benzos before & valium is one that is was easy for me to quit. alot easier than than caffeine or cigarettes.
but u may as well taper anyway. better safe than sorry. u have the supply just taper anyway to atleast get rid of an re-bound anxiety which i rekon u may have a a fair chance of getting

Ive abused benzos for yrs. valium has never given me rebound anxiety. defensively not even close to a seizure. the only benzos that has given me a "taste of w/d was when I abused xanax for a while & just stopped. I was a little anxious. nothing as bad as a night out drinking though.

but I DO GET what benzo w/d can potentially be. If ya using more than 400mg of diaz a day for a few months than ya in trouble. but atleast it valium.
if ya using more than 20mg of Xanax for a few months well.... ud be dead if u didnt go to the ER.. well probably. lets make it 40mg. than u wouldnt make it if u just quit

Ive been a user of valium, temazepam, & valium. last dose of valium was 200mg the other day with GFJ & subutex. Ive had valium with alot of alcohol oxy & meth too. Dont drink with benzos. for some reason i actually get less drunk but its probably cuz im a little calmer & drink slower but everyones different. ive heard it can put some ppl in a coma
its VERY ADDICTED but it's also VERY HARD TO GET ADDICTED TOO.
so ive been using benzos for a few yrs. never a problem with w/d. but i someimtes go weeks without taking em

I have bolded statements in your post I disagree with, or do not understand. You are lucky you haven't experienced withdrawals with such reckless abuse, and are not qualified to assess seizure risk. You have experienced a paradoxical reaction to benzodiazepines, but this is no excuse for giving potentially fatal advice and telling the OP "nothing will happen if you quit cold turkey".

 

[Halif]

Anon54, take care of yourself. You seem to be rather... affected.

Ive abused benzos for yrs.

Let Anon54's post be a warning for everyone. Benzos can make you very clouded.

 

[ErgicMergic]

OP, let's just say you get lucky and don't get a seizure, which is definitely a possibility. You will still go through mental hell, so why not just taper? I don't get it... it's not like you ran out of Valium or anything. Basically, here's the best case scenario: you cold turkey Diazepam at that dosage, and don't get a seizure, big fucking deal. You still will have gone to hell and back, and thus are absolutely guaranteed to start using benzos again, benzo PAWS is absolutely horrid. The ones who usually stay clean are the people who do a slow taper.

The worst case scenario: you die from a seizure... sure, the best case scenario is better than the worst, but they are still both really shitty, so why are you so adamant about being a tough guy? There is only one class of drugs that truly should never be cold turkeyed, and that is the benzo class. Even opiate withdrawal can't kill you... I would save your "inquisitiveness" towards your iron will against addiction for another drug that can't kill you upon discontinuation.

 

[tricomb]

The only way I ever managed to taper off xanax was, with xanax. There was no way I could take enough diazepam to make up for triple digit alprazolam dosing, regularly nearing 150mg/day towards the end, when I realized it was no way to live. I'm glad I didn't get so barred out I killed myself or somebody else.

Obviously, you don't come off 150mg alprazolam cold turkey, there is no question I would have died and the hospital would not have been able to IV me enough lorazepam/diazepam to stop the seizures. So, I tapered down to 0.125mg and even still this was not enough to prevent me going through hell and back. My tolerance is still ruined, almost a year after quitting but I never dose more than 2mg now, usually less, just for the tiny amount of anxiolysis during unbearable anxiety. I dose infrequently now, usually only a few times a month.

But I'm not trying to discourage the OP, like I said I was taking exponentially larger doses and also I've been on benzodiazepine therapy for almost a decade now. You've been using for a short time, it will not be a walk in the park, but it will not be anywhere near as bad as what others like myself have gone through. But somehow, I made it, and so can you.

 

[zzz101]

Hey - thank you for this thread, op. no really, thank you.

I've been using almost like you, but for about 8 months now. shit.. 8 months, that was quick! I don't even like benzos! per say.

The sad thing is, I've also been using opiates for two years (4 to 8 times per month) Tolerance hasn't gone up at all if any. And never experienced noticeable withdraws with opiates. Except once (minor, that was enough).
Point is - I'm getting high 3-4 days a week. Jesus. And I thought I didn't have a problem.

Now, this is my 5th day of no benzo (or opiates). I'm feeling fine, good enough to go to work and do stuff. No withdraw symptoms. In order to tapper I took 0.5mg clonozapam just before, then in another 7 days I will take again. Then maybe in 10 days I will do the same.. then finally stop for a few months before I get back into them, or only when I really need them. So....


My question is.. If I stick to the above method, would it be safe? As in, if I feel fine, am I risking myself with seizures? Are there any warnings you get from benzo withdraw that you are going to have seizure(s)? Am I possibly tapering too fast? Also, is it safe to take opiates in benzo withdraw? i know about addiction, and yeah, two years safely using opiates doesn't mean fuck all. Addiction could happen any time.

Also, yeah OP I'd say a doctor would know a lot more, and the best way you could tapper safely.

 

[tricomb]

The way you proposed still has risks of seizures, and the seizures will usually strike with no warning. It's not like epilepsy where you have an aura and a little bit of notice before you know you will seize. With benzos, the seizures can strike anytime. You've been on benzos for 3/4 a year,

No, do not dose once a week. clonazepam does not have THAT long of a half life, you'd be better off with valium, which has a half life of 100 hours and it's metabolite lasts 200 hours + but if all you have are klonopin, We can make do with that. The best way to do this is in as rapid taper as possible, just to avoid potential risk of seizure and to minimize rebound anxiety and insomnia.

week1: dosing 0.5mg/day, every day for a week
week2: dosing 0.25mg/day, five days a week (do not skip benzos for two days in a row, something like skip benzos on monday and thursday, etc)
week3: dosing 0.25mg every other day, then jump off.

You may still have some PAWS but it will be much easier than jumping off cold turkey, or what you suggested by dosing once a week. I highly recommend against that plan of action.

 

[zzz101]

Thank you, tricomb.
That information was great. I noticed that when I took the 0.5 however, I became more focused in work and yeah, feel way better (normal) than when not on them.

My mistake - When I said I was getting high 3-4 days a week - Those weren't just benzos. On average it would be give or take, 2 days benzo, 2 days opiates. It may seem not like much, but to me it is, all this time, it takes its toll, you know. Some time it could be slightly more.

I think doing what you posted is well above what I do. I only find valium has recreation value, my dose is 10-20mg. With xanax or K, its around 2mg, but mostly just do .5-1

It's creepy shit. I mean, I thought i don't have a problem. But now i know. Well, it's not a problem, but i'm just around the corner I can feel it... Maybe that once a week thing wouldn't be too bad? after using moderately for 8 months.