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dermorphin questions

D

daddysgone

Bluelighter
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,114
2 things right off the bat
1- i am a new member, so greeting to all. this is my very first post, and my reason for joining this site was specifically to find more info about this peptide.
2nd- i AM AWARE that this subject has been covered and YES i have used the search function. however, i think all would agree that there is VERY VERY little info discussed regarding this peptide, and when it comes to experiences, hardly anything.
that said- i am curious if anyone here has any new info, new experiences, or any light at all to shed on this subject. the info i was able to gather here was several years old, and there were only 2 members which i could find (paregoric kid, and paesan) who actually claimed to have experimented with this peptide. there were many others who joined the thread and claimed they would soon be in possession of dermorphin. however, there were no subsequent reports and the thread simply died. given how little this has been discussed, and the fact that at least a few people seem to indicate this peptide was indeed active, i feel we should resurrect discussion about this substance.
specifically, im most interested to hear about what dosages those of you who have experimented with this substance, have used (no i am not looking for an endorsement of dosage level). also i am looking to find out what route of admin. has been used, and if this peptide seems to be active orally.
so all those of you that have some light to shed..speak up-thats what this place is all about- right?-dad
 
please dont be shy. anyone out there in radio land have anything at all to share about this?
 
google it.
Wikpedia had this to say about it.
Dermorphin is a hepta-peptide first isolated from the skin of South American frogs belonging to the family Phyllomedusinae.[1] The peptide is a natural opiate that binds as an agonist with high potency and selectivity to mu Opioid receptors.[2][3] Dermorphin is about 30-40 times more potent than morphine but less likely to produce drug tolerance and addiction.[4]

Dermorphin is not found in humans or other mammals and similar D-amino acid peptides have only been found in bacteria, amphibians and molluscs.[5] Dermorphin appears to be made in these through an unusual posttranslational modification carried out by an amino acid isomerase.[6] The reason for this unusual process is that the D-alanine in this peptide is not among the 20 in the genetic code and cannot be encoded by the genes by higher organisms.

Structure of dermorphin: H-Tyr-D-Ala-Phe-Gly-Tyr-Pro-Ser-NH2
Chemical formula: C40H50N8O10
Molecular weight: 802.9 g/mol
 
oh believe me mike, ive googled the living crap out of it. ive googled it to the point of molestation. there seems to be no question that we are looking at a very potent MU agonist, but im looking for any info from people regarding experiences with it. i know there have been a few here who have had experiences with it, and many others who expressed that they had some on the way to them. id love to hear from those who followed up with these experiences, and what they have to say about it.
 
I think you're going to get more helpful info from ADD, I'll send it over there for you. I'm sure the threads that you found came from that forum - some of the people you mentioned are still around, and it's a good place to find help on a topic like this,

oh and welcome - i've also left a redirect in OD this way you'll pick up some opiate users from OD and some sci-types in ADD. It's an interesting peptide, I really haven't kept up with it, so i'm looking forward to hearing some new thoughts from people : )
 
There's not a lot (to me) to indicate that it'll be enjoyable in any way. Actually, too much about psychiatric disturbances in the reports I've read.
 
my thread sucks. no one likes my thread. its my first and everyone thinks its stupid. now everyone is gonna think i want to marry dermorphin- i knew this was gonna happen:(
 
Hey, cheer up! I'm a regular poster in ADD and I think this is a good thread! I'm assuming you have read pretty much everything in peer-reviewed literature about this peptide, and that you don't want a bunch of links to journal articles. However, if you do have a bunch of journal articles on this subject, I'd like to see them, and would definitely like it if you would pm me.
That being said, I have no personal experience with the peptide, but hopefully somebody here does.
 
i have not looked at them in a while and do not care to re-visit at the moment, but as i recalll there were a good lot of far better "opiate" peptides than dermorphin if one is going that direction
 
well i can now report that it is indeed active....but not at all advisable. when the only good thing you can say about something is that it was "short lived", it says alot..
 
hiya,

fascinating report daddysgone! pushing the boundaries of science.
ive been interested in this peptide (and the similar analogues) for quite a few years now after reading of its discovery in phyllomedusa tree frogs.

effects and pharm sure looked good on paper, and also with some reports of actual clinical trials in humans saying more effective than morphine led me to believe in some potential. also if they got that far would indicate at least some preliminary tox studies had been done. sorry to hear that it's a stinker... it happens... back to the drawingboard as they say.

seems like some studies are specifically designed by the drug companies to hype up a new drug when in fact its not all that great. the studies of pt141 are like that, all hyped up and overstated to convince investors to buy the stock when the reality is the stuff is not even close to being a winner.

can you provide more details of your experiments?

dosage and route of ingestion (SC, IM, or IV i'm assuming)?

more description of the effects (even if undesirable) would be appreciated.

was there anything to indicate positive potential if further refinements made
to the structure (ie hope for its analogues)?

at least can finally close the dermorphin chapter... maybe the world will be a slightly less chaotic place without an easy to produce highly euphoric peptide hitting the scene.

L8ter,

el_mago
 
hey all
i know this is an old thread (im the original poster), but I decided to experiment a bit more with this odd little peptide.
The biggest problem im encountering regards the dosage. for starters, i dont have a scale that measures mcgs accurately, and the dosage for dermorphin is (I think) in the microgram range. this makes any experimentation quite tricky, not to mention extremely dangerous. adding to this problem is im having trouble finding what an appropriate dosage for dermorphin would be. there is very little literature on this stuff, and what little i can find, all relates to rats and other small mammals. in one study i found, they administered between .1 and 5 mg/kg to adult rats. if i were to use this as i guideline, as a 70 kg male, my dosage could be anywhere from
7mg to 350mg. in addition to this being a HUGE range, it also conflicts with most other literature ive seen on dermorphin which puts dosages in the microgram range.

despiste these obstacles, i decided to give it another try (i had experimented about a year ago with poor results).

moving along. i weighed out 1mg and then did my best to split this into 2 equal portion. i then insuffilated one of the halves, which should have been about 500mcgs. about 1 minute after insuffilating, my face began to feel flush and warm. now, this is where things get a bit tricky, because after this initial flushing, it is hard to say what was placebo and anxiety, and what was the true effect of the dermorphin. once my face flushed (and it was a very sudden flushing), i got nervous and started to feel anxious that perhaps my measuring and estimating of dosage was off. and of course, the more nervous i got, the more pronounced the effects were. i sat down and started to feel what many would describe as "depersonalization"- kind of like you are outside your body, looking at yourself, or that you are in a dream. all of this of course made me more anxious and so i began breathing deeply.
the good news is that within 30 minutes all effects, whether they were real or psychological, had subsided and I truly felt that I had a sort of low level afterglow/euphoria for the next several hours.
all in all, it was an unpleasant experience and i realized that i really have no business messing around with this stuff considering my near complete lack of information regarding it. perhaps if i could determine what the true dosage levels for this peptide are, i would be up for another trial, but as of now, its clear i just dont know what im doing. its possible the dosage i took was way too low, or maybe it was too high and this is just one of those drugs that looks good on paper but in the real world its just a mess. who knows at this point.
but if ANYONE has any information or first hand accounts of dermorphin, i would love to hear about it. i guess thats all for now, if you guys have any questions just let me know.
 
cool, frontline science that doesn't shy any risks.

i'd be glad if i was in a financial situation enabling me to also do such experiments....

regarding your incertitudes: maybe it'd be possible to calculate a reasonable dose by
1) examining (human) receptor affinity
2) evaluating intranasal bioavailability
3) determining metabolic stability in a biological system and
4) estimating bbb-penetration, ie. lipophilicity of dermorphin.

also, you (and the former one in this thread) are suggesting strange effects like out-of-body experiences which would rather belong to the edge of kappa-agonists and the like. are you sure about the significant selectivity of dermorphin for the µ-receptor?

back to my first statement (dose-evaluation, edit):
i'd look that up for sure tomorrow (i'll eat my zopiclone in an instant :) ).
well, what's left to say: please don't give up that easily, i'll keep my fingers crossed for you :)
 
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im going to try dermorphin

i have been given the opportunity to use the venom of a p. bicolor frog, i have been doing a lot of research into dermorphin but it has just left me with a huge number of questions i hope some people here might be able to answer.

i was reading a book about "the opioid excess theory of autism" which posits endogenous dermorphin is responsible for symptoms of ASD, in this book they say (without citation) that dermorphin is a kappa-opioid agonist and that its (behavural) effects are NOT reversed by naloxone, but all journal articles i have read since seem to indicate that dermorphin has NO affinity for k-opioid receptors and it IS blocked by naloxone, does anyone have any evidence to the contrary?

this same book said that p. bicolor frogs bred in captivity do not produce dermorphins, indicating that there is some dietary source for one of of its precursers (presumably d-alanine) if the D-alanine is NOT from a dietary source can anyone suggest the route by which the l-isomer could be converted, are there other organism capable of this? and is it even true that captive p. bicolor do not produce dermorphins?

sorry i know this is a lot of questions but any help would be appreciated.
 
Behavioral effects are bocked by naloxone, and apparently other drugs:

Neuropharmacology. 1988 Oct;27(10):1007-12.Links
Antagonism of dermorphin-induced catalepsy with naloxone, TRH-analog CG3703 and the benzodiazepine antagonist, Ro 15-1788.
Paakkari P, Feuerstein G.

Department of Neurology, Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences, Bethesda, Maryland 20814.

Intracerebroventricular (i.c.v.) administration of the highly selective opiate mu-receptor agonist, dermorphin, produced dose-dependent catalepsy in conscious rats. The cataleptic effect of dermorphin was abolished by pretreatment (intraperitoneal, i.p.) with the opiate-antagonist naloxone (5 mg/kg), thyrotropin-releasing hormone analog CG3703 (1 mg/kg) or the benzodiazepine-antagonist Ro 15-1788 (5 mg/kg) whereas pretreatment with the benzodiazepine alprazolam (1 mg/kg) potentiated the cataleptic effect of dermorphin. When given to cataleptic rats, naloxone and CG3703, but not Ro 15-1788, reversed the dermorphin-induced catalepsy. The data suggest an involvement of benzodiazepine receptors in the induction of catalepsy mediated by opioid mu-receptors. Other opioid-modulating neuronal systems, antagonized by CG3703, may be involved in maintaining the dermorphin-induced cataleptic state.

PMID: 2907115 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
Click to expand...
 
hey there. i wish i could be of more help. i tried to answer your questions as best i could in our PM's, but it seems you have some questions which i cannot answer. i believe i am the only one here (please correct me if im wrong), who has actually tried dermorphin. The effects I experienced suggested much more in the way of kappa agonism then that of mu agonism. I really did not experience any euphoria, but instead felt what i would describe more as a dissociative effect. I can also add that the effects are very short lived.
I am also certain that Ham is correct in that effects are blocked/reversed by nalaxone.

Im not sure how you will be going about experimenting with this peptide, but i urge you to use extreme caution. the dosage is quite low (in the microgram range) and i really dont think there is much info out there regarding OD levels. so please, be safe, and im looking forward to hearing your reports after youve had a chance to experiment.
 
i will be using the dermorphin(s) in the traditional fashion, ie i will be burned and then have a saliva/dermorphin concoction rubbed into my wounds, the dose will be totally unknown. ill do my best to bring a sample of the venom back to civilization so i can experiment with insufflating it in a more controlled environment (any ideas about stability?)

some say its causes hallucinations, some say it causes violent diarrhea, a lot of info about this peptide does not quite add up...
 
ahhhh so you will not be using the isolated substance, but rather will be using it in the traditional manner, exposing yourself to the unprocessed excretions from the frog. i BELIEVE this will lead to a very different experience as compared to my experience which was with pure, isolated dermorphin. i believe that the secretions of this frog include several other psychoactives other then dermorphin. i believe at least one of these other substances is hallucinogenic, so i expect your experience to be much closer to that of a hallucinogen, rather then that of an mu opioid. i will be quite interested to hear your report, but again, i must repeat, if you are expecting an opioid like experience, i think you will be dissapointed and perhaps frightened. so good luck with your experiments, and please do report back. DG
 
and to throw one more question im guessing no one can answer onto the pile...

there is an extremely positive dermorphin report from 1997 that contradicts all subsequent reports, the user feels no nausea, and says its highly euphoric, its excerpted in one of the other dermorphin threads. since i know very little about the research chemical scene from 1997 (i was in middle school) is it possible that there was a financial motivation behind that report ie was dermorphin an early RC and was this guy trolling for customers?
 
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