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Controversial topic: death penalty drugs and their effectiveness

JohnBoy2000

JohnBoy2000

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As a weekend pass time, I took a moment to look into this (probably preceded by some horrific youtube documentary on the topic).

Wikipedia also has a comprehensive page on the subject, outlining historical death inducing drugs, and those currently in use.

First question that comes to mind: given the lethality of fentanyl and opioids in general in overdose, why are current mediocre agents not substituted for these?

Barbiturates were the historical choice, but apparently again there was consistent suboptimal results, including some kind of fluid accumulation in the lungs, meaning death was in fact caused by a "drowning" related effect versus a CNS depressant effect.

I'm just curious why a potent opioid agonist wouldn't be first line when considering efficacy?

Thoughts?
 
I am no scientist, so please take what I say with a pinch of salt.
Barbiturates are probably used in lethal injections because of their general anaesthetic effect. unlike opioids which tend to slow down selective brain regions, the incredibly powerful GABAA aganism produced by high dose barbiturates shuts down much more of the brain. i’m not saying fentanyl wouldn’t achieve this, and it certainly wouldn’t hurt to add it in to the mix. but my suspicion is that barbiturates are better at impairing memory and consciousness and that’s why they are so popular in anaesthesia.
On a sidenote, Whilst I might support the death penalty for the most heinous crimes, i’m appalled by the cruel and arbitrary way it is implemented around the world. The thing is, we all know why authoritarian nations use it, for political ends of course. but what I’ve never understood is why even in democracies like the US, there’s often a rush to implement the death penalty on an individual, even if the evidence against them is seriously lacking.
 
Neuroprotection said:
On a sidenote, Whilst I might support the death penalty for the most heinous crimes, i’m appalled by the cruel and arbitrary way it is implemented around the world. The thing is, we all know why authoritarian nations use it, for political ends of course. but what I’ve never understood is why even in democracies like the US, there’s often a rush to implement the death penalty on an individual, even if the evidence against them is seriously lacking.
Click to expand...
The other issue here is that the death penalty drugs used are EXTREMELY ineffective and painful.
It goes against the Hippocratic oath for a doctor to euthanize a healthy person, so doctors refuse to assist in the process and instead lawmakers with zero medical knowledge choose the cocktail of drugs used.
One of the substances commonly used is just a paralytic to hide the victims seizing in pain as they die.
 
My guess is that they try to avoid inducing euphoria as well. As arrall mentions these procedures are almost never performed by medical professionals or even phlebotomists. Many get botched trying to get a vein for hours
 
JohnBoy2000 said:
Barbiturates were the historical choice, but apparently again there was consistent suboptimal results, including some kind of fluid accumulation in the lungs, meaning death was in fact caused by a "drowning" related effect versus a CNS depressant
Click to expand...
As someone who has ODed on pentobarbital more than once, I can assure you that this is nonsense. Pentobarbital (used in both executions & animal euthanasia) is a great way to go. It's how I want to die.

Whether capital punishment should be used at all is another argument, and I have mixed feelings about it. But the "cruel & unusual" argument is utter tripe.
 
They should’ve had something peaceful like what the Euthanasia places use like Nembutal, but considering the people on death row are vile criminals that have committed disturbing crimes I don’t think anyone really cares if they use inferior methods which results in them suffering in their final moments.
 
DrZaius1 said:
They should’ve had something peaceful like what the Euthanasia places use like Nembutal, but considering the people on death row are vile criminals that have committed disturbing crimes I don’t think anyone really cares if they use inferior methods which results in them suffering in their final moments.
Click to expand...
Many people on death row are innocent.
This is a pretty well-known fact.
In some places, people get the death penalty for victimless crimes like cannabis trafficking.

Regardless, nobody deserves to experience the ineffective capital punishment methods utilized by the United States - guilty or innocent.
 
Nembutal is one brand name for pentobarbital.

arrall said:
Many people on death row are innocent.
This is a pretty well-known fact.
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This is the main reason I'm against it in most cases. The other day a guy was found not guilty after being in prison 40 years for a crime he did not commit.

BTW, remember the Central Park Five?
Now the Exonerated Five.
DNA evidence has cleared them AND someone else has confessed to the crime, yet Trump still insists that they should be executed.
 
Looking at euthanasia protocol:

en.wikipedia.org

Dignitas (non-profit organisation) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

an oral dose of an antiemetic drug, followed approximately half an hour later by a lethal overdose of 15 grams of powdered pentobarbital dissolved in a glass of water. If necessary, the drugs can be ingested through a drinking straw. The pentobarbital overdose depresses the central nervous system, causing the patient to become drowsy and fall asleep within 3–5 minutes of drinking it; anaesthesia progresses to coma, followed by respiratory arrest and death, which occurs within 30–40 minutes of ingesting the pentobarbital.
Click to expand...

I believe something similar is done is liberal states such as the Netherlands.

I haven't read of miss fires and patients not achieving death with this protocol, but yeah the lack of success and associated suffering that happens to death row prisoners, system is bizarre how backward and bureaucratic it is.
 
But again the question remains, fentanyl is lethal at a dose of 0.2 mg, yes?

It's not like it's in short supply, so why is it's use not even considered for euthanasia or on death row inmates?
 
I'm still searching in vain for that vinylbital that I believe is today lying under thousands of tonnes of landfill. Structurally it is so similar to pentobarbital that with an untrained eye it could almost be mistaken for it. Granted they are not exactly the same drug, but I bet they would be just as reliable as each other in what one would call a "Dignitas" setup. Damn, I miss that shit, and I think someday in the not too distant future I'm really going to be in need of it. Come to think of it, I really should never have flushed that pentobarbital. I should not have even dissolved it unless I was sure my hearing was never coming back. Funny thing because it started happening in the opposite ear not much more than just one year later. Yeah, I know. Pathetic.
 
JohnBoy2000 said:
Any chemist techs among us illustrate the difference between

1) pentobarbital and

2) phenobarbital?
Click to expand...
I'm no chemist, but I've taken each more than once. The effects are quite similar, but (at least in my case) it was much easier to OD on the pentobarbital. I've also taken butobarbital more than once and found it similar to the pentobarbital in that just a tiny bit too much is the difference between feeling relaxed and getting knocked unconscious.
 
The best 2 options to die hopeful pain free, purpously forgot nr 3 .. dark shit comtemplating suicide.
Caused by prescibed without proper information medication and as after effect of having a seizure.
They could have mentioned that ! 1+1=3, assholes dr's incompetent as fuck. Like leaving this up to lawyer s.
A obvious medical intervention, i say oad or not, chicken s.

But still looking for it, knowing. Still here, no dumb things done. Talk to someone before you consider !

1. OD of Opiod and a Benzo.
2. N2O, like with a nozzle. Basickly choking while in La la land

And death sentence is old fashioned anyway. Is it still practiced not 🚫. Oh yeah off course were still more primitive,
as most old skool tribes on earth. If there any left. Isnt it Thais that have death sentence on Kratom posession.

Offcourse Pentobarbital would work excellent, but is for a normal person hard to get. Reason it not in my list, like Xenon.
Would probably also work.
 
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I stumbled across an old box, I figured it had previously had a toy in it that I got back in 2015, and I sure got my hopes up, opened the top of the box and saw the toy in there, but didn't see anything else. Hopes dashed once more. I was hoping it was what I'd been looking for for such a long time. One day I'm going to go right through everything in some vain hope to see if I possess the secret of eternal peace. Deep down I doubt I do, I'd remember looking feverishly back in 2020 after I flushed the pento that I had planned to use (if my hearing didn't come back because the doctor refused steroids for sudden deafness; low-frequency losses mostly and nasty tinnitus). I had no luck back then...what makes me think I'd have any better luck in future? I went through everything back then, two days of constant searching, nothing found. :ROFLMAO:
 
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