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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Bupe Confused about people injecting Suboxone
- Thread starter xkore88
- Start date
While I don't have enough scientific data to back up the fact, it's becoming a more and more common belief that Naloxone plays either an extremely minor role in the drug's action or none at all. Buprenorphine itself is enough to cause precipitated withdrawal due to its extremely high relative binding affinity for the Opioid receptors. I'm into conspiracy theories, one could call me a new age Jesse Ventura in fact. In this regard, I feel that the pharmaceutical company Reckitt Benckiser's [sic] entirely knew for fact that the naloxone in there product played this very, very possibly, completely absent role in its effects.
Buprenorphine doesn't need naloxone to do its duty. Does anyone wonder why we (the states) are the only ones who use it. They saw an opportunity (early on in this Opioid upsurge) to profit off of it. The only problem? Buprenorphine had already been around for a long time and hence, would be available as a cheap generic. Their plan: tell docs that naloxone is necessary to treat addicts with this drug. They made literally oodles of cash. The railroad men of the 1800's would be both proud to see their legacy going strong in American culture and jealous of these guys.
There is a reason no other country with a "not for profit" medical system uses the generic Subutex. It's only us. That should cause some headscratching. They fuck us one way and then when we think we're safe, we get fucked again by big Pharma. That's the American dream.
Bernie Sanders in 2020 - Get out there and vote
www.thedailybeast.com
Buprenorphine doesn't need naloxone to do its duty. Does anyone wonder why we (the states) are the only ones who use it. They saw an opportunity (early on in this Opioid upsurge) to profit off of it. The only problem? Buprenorphine had already been around for a long time and hence, would be available as a cheap generic. Their plan: tell docs that naloxone is necessary to treat addicts with this drug. They made literally oodles of cash. The railroad men of the 1800's would be both proud to see their legacy going strong in American culture and jealous of these guys.
There is a reason no other country with a "not for profit" medical system uses the generic Subutex. It's only us. That should cause some headscratching. They fuck us one way and then when we think we're safe, we get fucked again by big Pharma. That's the American dream.
Bernie Sanders in 2020 - Get out there and vote
The $1B Scheme to Corner Heroin Addicts
The company behind America’s most popular drug to treat addicts actually claimed its pills could kill kids to get a new patent and $1 billion.
Nicomorphinist
Bluelighter
Buprenorphine has a higher affinity for the μ opioid receptor than does naloxone -- something that occasionally plays out for the worse in overdose cases . . . the precipitated withdrawal people get into when starting it has to do with buprenorphine being a partial agonist of μ opioid receptors, an antagonist of the κ and δ opioid receptors, apparently no ζ opioid activity, and on top of this weak impact on the nociceptive system, with apparently no effect whatsoever on sigma receptors. The acute, sub-chronic and chronic pain for which it can be used has to be of a certain type, apparently, because of all this. If a doctor offers to change you from a real painkiller onto Suboxone, or complicate things by switching to methadone, there is probably some regulatory pressure being put on them at the state level and/or internal clinic politics.
Getting back to Suboxone, the naloxone is as much a political sop to regulators at the FDA as the one-fortieth of the usual dose of atropine (a strong anticholinergic, not an opioid antagonist, which can be used as an adjunct to narcotics like when I would mix 100 μg of atropine in with a dose of hydromorphinol and many other techniques known to anaesthesiologists and others) in diphenoxylate and difenoxin, which especially if one is looking for some extra analgesia for neuropathic pain is worse than useless from the point of view of bureaucrats and other Puritans and quasi-Wahabist trash but is the subject of the same wall of silence and occasional co-ordinated disinformation as with everything else from poppies to pentazocine to lofentanil.
By the way, anyone desperate and misinformed enough to try to shoot diarrhoea medication is going to get a hell of a blast of atropine, which is very water soluble, and some but not much of the opioid, which is less so, and also part of the equation. There used to be oral morphine tablets with atropine in them too -- they make a brief cameo in Drugstore Cowboy in the transaction with the neighbour where Bob was trying to sell him 75 tablets instead of 90, and after he leaves, Bob tells the young lady who corrected his math that he would sell her to a one-armed Filipino for a pack of chewing gum . . . this is all explained further in the book -- people used to get distilled water, an eyedropper, and blotter paper and used the relatively small quantity of atropine to their benefit and were happily on their way to M town in a few minutes.
Getting back to Suboxone, the naloxone is as much a political sop to regulators at the FDA as the one-fortieth of the usual dose of atropine (a strong anticholinergic, not an opioid antagonist, which can be used as an adjunct to narcotics like when I would mix 100 μg of atropine in with a dose of hydromorphinol and many other techniques known to anaesthesiologists and others) in diphenoxylate and difenoxin, which especially if one is looking for some extra analgesia for neuropathic pain is worse than useless from the point of view of bureaucrats and other Puritans and quasi-Wahabist trash but is the subject of the same wall of silence and occasional co-ordinated disinformation as with everything else from poppies to pentazocine to lofentanil.
By the way, anyone desperate and misinformed enough to try to shoot diarrhoea medication is going to get a hell of a blast of atropine, which is very water soluble, and some but not much of the opioid, which is less so, and also part of the equation. There used to be oral morphine tablets with atropine in them too -- they make a brief cameo in Drugstore Cowboy in the transaction with the neighbour where Bob was trying to sell him 75 tablets instead of 90, and after he leaves, Bob tells the young lady who corrected his math that he would sell her to a one-armed Filipino for a pack of chewing gum . . . this is all explained further in the book -- people used to get distilled water, an eyedropper, and blotter paper and used the relatively small quantity of atropine to their benefit and were happily on their way to M town in a few minutes.
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sewerslide.666mg
Bluelighter
I've known ppl to do it, I've done it once or twice in the past wouldn't recommend it, one of my friends go an abscess
leojay
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2007
- Messages
- 124
In illinois/USA my neighbor gets generic Buprenorphine/Naloxone for free paid by state insurance.
16mg a day... I was like... dude. U did 1 bag of shit-dope a day and ur on so much stronger shit...
It's cool tho
Nicomorphinist
Nailed it.
Where's CH? Laughin at this post in 2019... Didn't we do this when sub's first came out a decade ago?
Can you bang strips? Yea. If you're sickAF you'll feel better. That could be a high to you
But, anything in ur system... ... yergonnahavabatime...
TAKE ALL PRECAUTIONS WITH IV USE
IV Buprenorphine/Nalaxone recreational value IMO: 3/10
IV Buprenorphine/Nalaxone maintience value IMO: 8/10
16mg a day... I was like... dude. U did 1 bag of shit-dope a day and ur on so much stronger shit...
It's cool tho
Nicomorphinist
Nailed it.
Where's CH? Laughin at this post in 2019... Didn't we do this when sub's first came out a decade ago?
Can you bang strips? Yea. If you're sickAF you'll feel better. That could be a high to you
But, anything in ur system... ... yergonnahavabatime...
TAKE ALL PRECAUTIONS WITH IV USE
IV Buprenorphine/Nalaxone recreational value IMO: 3/10
IV Buprenorphine/Nalaxone maintience value IMO: 8/10
sewerslide.666mg
Bluelighter
I think definitely think think it's not worth it,
I rember when I did it took a fuew minuets to kick in .. it's like what the point if theirs no rush...
I rember when I did it took a fuew minuets to kick in .. it's like what the point if theirs no rush...
SKL
Bluelight Crew
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- Sep 15, 2007
- Messages
- 14,632
The ratio of the affinities of buprenorphine and naloxone are such that naloxone, in the amounts given, doesn't actually override anything. There actually is evidence of this in regards to the relative Ki/IC50s.
what the fuck this is uncalled for especially from a mod of the forum in question. seriously.
that piss you off? good. politics have no place here outside of CE&P and the lounge.
Bernie Sanders in 2020 - Get out there and vote
The $1B Scheme to Corner Heroin Addicts
The company behind America’s most popular drug to treat addicts actually claimed its pills could kill kids to get a new patent and $1 billion.
what the fuck this is uncalled for especially from a mod of the forum in question. seriously.
that piss you off? good. politics have no place here outside of CE&P and the lounge.
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Fire&Water
Pumpkin King
The ratio of the affinities of buprenorphine and naloxone are such that naloxone, in the amounts given, doesn't actually override anything. There actually is evidence of this in regards to the relative Ki/IC50s.
what the fuck this is uncalled for especially from a mod of the forum in question. seriously.
that piss you off? good. politics have no place here outside of CE&P and the lounge.
The ratio of the affinities of buprenorphine and naloxone are such that naloxone, in the amounts given, doesn't actually override anything. There actually is evidence of this in regards to the relative Ki/IC50s.
what the fuck this is uncalled for especially from a mod of the forum in question. seriously.
that piss you off? good. politics have no place here outside of CE&P and the lounge.
Did you forget "two wrongs make a tard" ?
SKL
Bluelight Crew
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No I am just utterly exceptionally assmad.
tweakerguy
Bluelighter
No thanks, this country already has enough entitled, know-it-all millenials that grew up with that 'everyone gets a trophy' B.S. lol.
SKL
Bluelight Crew
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Also, we don't use "the generic Subutex" in this country. Per guidelines is generally is only prescribed in special cases and pregnant women. I should know. I tried getting on it when I had no insurance because it is (was?) cheaper. If you're going to bitch about the healthcare system at least know what you're talking about.
Typing on my phone. Beware typos.
Are you upset with me for talking about Bernie Sanders? I get it if there is some confusion and I admit I probably used language that could be misunderstood. However, I really think context wouod lead most people to understand what it was that I meant.
I will clear it up though.
"The Generic Suboxone"
What I was implying, was that Buprenorphine was available as a generic drug when the combination drug Suboxone was patented. Being the Naloxone in Suboxone is not "active, viable, lacks affinity", well, we can debate politics all day, but this has always struck me as taking advantage of a vulnerable population with no remorse plain and simple.
I feel it can get pretty wordy trying to spell out Suboxone withouy Naloxone, sold as a generic or non-generic drug or Buprenorphine, with naloxone sold as a generic. It is very wordy man. People around the world seem to understand what we mean when we use language like Suboxone (Bupe w/ Naloxone) or Subutex (Buprenorphine) to describe these differences.
If it really rubs you the wrong way I apologize, but I stand by what I said. I was not playing the role of Bluelight Litigator in arguing the exact, verbatim language of my argument. I wad trying to reach as many as possible by using the most general language possible.
It had always worked until this moment. And who cares if I like Bernie Sanders. Lighten up dude. I am actually coming from a position of wanting to help my peers. I stand by what I said. Im not even that political but...
Mentioning The Right Honorable, His Excellency, Generallisimo, Prince of Asia and King of my Heart, Bernard Sanders with disdain is going to be a capital offense in the coming months.
The secret police? Theyre gonna be called the Berning Men.
Are you upset with me for talking about Bernie Sanders? I get it if there is some confusion and I admit I probably used language that could be misunderstood. However, I really think context wouod lead most people to understand what it was that I meant.
I will clear it up though.
"The Generic Suboxone"
What I was implying, was that Buprenorphine was available as a generic drug when the combination drug Suboxone was patented. Being the Naloxone in Suboxone is not "active, viable, lacks affinity", well, we can debate politics all day, but this has always struck me as taking advantage of a vulnerable population with no remorse plain and simple.
I feel it can get pretty wordy trying to spell out Suboxone withouy Naloxone, sold as a generic or non-generic drug or Buprenorphine, with naloxone sold as a generic. It is very wordy man. People around the world seem to understand what we mean when we use language like Suboxone (Bupe w/ Naloxone) or Subutex (Buprenorphine) to describe these differences.
If it really rubs you the wrong way I apologize, but I stand by what I said. I was not playing the role of Bluelight Litigator in arguing the exact, verbatim language of my argument. I wad trying to reach as many as possible by using the most general language possible.
It had always worked until this moment. And who cares if I like Bernie Sanders. Lighten up dude. I am actually coming from a position of wanting to help my peers. I stand by what I said. Im not even that political but...
Mentioning The Right Honorable, His Excellency, Generallisimo, Prince of Asia and King of my Heart, Bernard Sanders with disdain is going to be a capital offense in the coming months.
The secret police? Theyre gonna be called the Berning Men.
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SKL are you implying that BUPRENORPHINE AS A SIGLE DRUG, WITHOUT NALOXONE, OF ANY BRAND is not used in this country?
Even outside of pregnant women it is used so Im not sure what you mean. Prescribers generally like to have evidence of requiring The above stated combination as opposed to Suboxone, but I know several people who use it, some pregnant, some not.
Its fine to disagree but dont be so hostile. Now we both know. Neither of us needs to be pissed. The world keeps turning and BL saves another one
Even outside of pregnant women it is used so Im not sure what you mean. Prescribers generally like to have evidence of requiring The above stated combination as opposed to Suboxone, but I know several people who use it, some pregnant, some not.
Its fine to disagree but dont be so hostile. Now we both know. Neither of us needs to be pissed. The world keeps turning and BL saves another one
Lucy20
Ex-Bluelighter
When I microdosed bupe getting off methadone my doctor prescribed buprenorphine without naltrexone and told me if i ever saw another doctor don't get bupe with naltrexone because it's not needed and could cause side effects. My addiction doctor was very well educated so i could see a conspiracy.
Going by documentaries/tv i have watched and stories i read here addict's in the United states are treated very poorly so anything is possible
Going by documentaries/tv i have watched and stories i read here addict's in the United states are treated very poorly so anything is possible
SKL
Bluelight Crew
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OK, I somehow completely misunderstood what you were saying about Subutex. Prescribing it is rare, though. I actually absolutely agree that it should be more used. The naloxone doesn't do anything good and pharmies that feature drugs that aren't contributing to their method of action is stupid.SKL are you implying that BUPRENORPHINE AS A SIGLE DRUG, WITHOUT NALOXONE, OF ANY BRAND is not used in this country?
Even outside of pregnant women it is used so Im not sure what you mean. Prescribers generally like to have evidence of requiring The above stated combination as opposed to Suboxone, but I know several people who use it, some pregnant, some not.
Its fine to disagree but dont be so hostile. Now we both know. Neither of us needs to be pissed. The world keeps turning and BL saves another one
As for the Bernie shit, I think it is offensive and out of place in a forum that's supposed to be about drug harm reduction, not your personal politics or mine. Don't even try to cop out of this by saying that a Bernie presidency would do drug-related harm.
Hey, I understand. The Buprenorphine terminology is confusing. I know youre not gonna like this, but I believe the pharmaceutical industry is exploitative.
Especially when I have scenarios involvong harm reduction thay involbe inadequate access to certain medications.
We are HR in principle and I vonsider this topic to be very poingnant for our usage. I apologize if peopke were offended.
OpiateKiller
Bluelighter
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can you elaborate on emphysema? Is this due to the particles from strips? I IV Suboxone sometime I’ve looked into a sterifilt or micron Wheel filter.. I did the research and with proper filter it eliminates everything unwanted. I use cotton... is this really that dangerous?
the reason I IV is to maximize the smallest dose.. which is why I do. There’s absolutely no rush