Concerta not working after speed

[Morningshot]

Hi

Im on 18mg/day of Concerta (methylphenidate) for the 6th year now.

In 6 years i have never had to increase the dosage, it was always enough to feel normal, and hadnt built any sort of tolerance.

So far so good. 2 months ago my contract took me to another country where I couldnt get my pills, and took about 1 weeks supply with me (gets refilled once a month).

So long story short, ended up buying and doing meth everyday for a whole month (I wasnt expecting my visit to be longer than 2 weeks but things dragged). Very low dosage, but was doing it everyday. Not snorting or smoking, but used to dissolve in a glass of water and drank it.

It was all great, better than Concerta. After a month I returned home, stopped the meth, and discovered that Concerta isnt working anymore. I thought yeah allright, will be a week or 2 before meth wears off...but its been 5 weeks now, and nothing. Taking Concerta has the same effect now as tap water. Zero. I even took 3 pills of 18mg, which ive never done in my life. Nothing. Nada. I could take the whole box and nothing would happen. Before that month of meth, one 18mg pill was enough for the day.

You are my last hope, please tell me whats going on. Im desperate and scared that I fried my receptors.
PS Coke works just fine, tried it to see if im all broken, felt allright for an hour.

 

[swimming.since.99]

Hi there,
Concerta (Methylphenidate) works by blocking the reuptake (recycling) of Dopamine and Norepinephrine, Amphetamine (Speed) works by releasing Dopamine and Norepinephrine, which causes mild depletion of both, however Methamphetamine works by exclusively releasing Dopamine, which causes severe depletion and some neurotoxicity. If you have been heavily using Meth for a month, it's likely that some of your dopamine synapses are gone, and your dopamine levels are depleted, which prevents concerta from working.

Coke also blocks the reuptake of serotonin and has a faster onset of action, which is why you felt better after using it.

I recommend that you start using L-dopa, as this can help by "refilling" your dopamine levels, and Concerta might start working again, however it takes years for the dopamine synapses to fully recover, which is why meth habits are so destructive.

SWIM

 

[Morningshot]

A few years, jee?
For doing it for a month, what does years of use do, decades to recovery lol...
Ordered some stuff containing l-dopa hope it works.
If anyone else has an input on this, please do.
Thanks.

 

[sean107]

Taking L-Dopa is not going to "refill your dopamine receptors".

 

[swimming.since.99]

Taking L-Dopa is not going to "refill your dopamine receptors".

I never said that it will refill the receptors, I meant that it will refill the "dopamine banks" which are left empty after heavy meth use. Those dopamine banks refill with dopamine very slowly, and l-dopa speeds up that process up and causes more dopamine to be created, however this of course does not improve D1 and D2 dopamine receptor downregulation, and only time can heal that.

All I'm saying is, taking l-dopa will significantly improve the function and effects of Concerta.

SWIM

 

[Morningshot]

What puzzles me is that coke does work. There must be dopamine otherwise there wouldnt be any for the coke to use. And there must be receptors working as well. I only had to use a tiny bit of coke to get me going, 1/4 of a line or less.
Its just something that methylphenidate works with, that has been damaged, either on release or receptor side. I'll give a pill to someone else to confirm if they are the real deal, at this point im suspecting i might have fake Concerta. Altough it looks 100% genuine.

 

[Morningshot]

They are genuine. Work like charm. Just not for me.

 

[CrazyEngineer]

The other thing is that coke can work reasonably well even if your dopamine receptors are somewhat trashed; cocaine is a triple reuptake inhibitor (serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine), so even if your dopamine receptors are mostly ruined you should still be able to get the serotonin and norepinephrine high. Furthermore, cocaine and meth seem to stimulate dopamine receptors at reasonably similar orders of magnitude for dosing, so if meth still works a high dose of cocaine still will. That said, methylphenidate tends to take a long while to increase dopamine concentrations in the brain and thus is somewhat difficult to abuse at therapeutic doses. If you've gone on a meth binge, then the increase in dopamine caused by methylphenidate won't register against the massive desensitization of and damage to your dopamine receptors that you've just caused; my advice is to get on and stay on L-dopa as soon as possible and don't expect your Concerta to work for a few weeks to a few months.

 

[Morningshot]

The other thing is that coke can work reasonably well even if your dopamine receptors are somewhat trashed; cocaine is a triple reuptake inhibitor (serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine), so even if your dopamine receptors are mostly ruined you should still be able to get the serotonin and norepinephrine high. Furthermore, cocaine and meth seem to stimulate dopamine receptors at reasonably similar orders of magnitude for dosing, so if meth still works a high dose of cocaine still will. That said, methylphenidate tends to take a long while to increase dopamine concentrations in the brain and thus is somewhat difficult to abuse at therapeutic doses. If you've gone on a meth binge, then the increase in dopamine caused by methylphenidate won't register against the massive desensitization of and damage to your dopamine receptors that you've just caused; my advice is to get on and stay on L-dopa as soon as possible and don't expect your Concerta to work for a few weeks to a few months.

Thanks bud. Just wanted some hope. Meth withdrawal was awful and still feel a tiny bit stressed and depressed after 5 weeks.
Anything else that goes well with L dopa to speed up recovery process?
Meth...never again.

 

[Randy Bobandy]

if you really need the relief of the concerta, continue taking L-dopa and possibly see if your doc will increase your dose to the next one up... this probably wont do anything good for your dopamine deficit but you may have better chances of it working if you get a dose increase. but don't make it look like your seeking drugs, just ask for an increase. sorry if this post is not within the rules, mods delete it please and pm me if it isn't. thanks. hope you get your dopamine deficiency sorted out Morningshot. cause it can be a bitch for most users.

 

[Snakevillon]

Everyone and there receptor talk and speculation but no one has mentioned that most likely his tolerance to the positve effects stimulants has simply gone up abd drugs like methamp amp mph etc have a sort of perma tokerence. For example I used to abuse the shit out of adderal and i simply no matter what can't get the sort of feeling or high j used to get even with long 6 month breaks if I go back I experience an increased high for like a day or 2 but even then it's nothing close to what it was in the early days. Unfortunately it may never feel the same for you especially going from a powerful drug like meth amp to mph I hope u find something that works for you but I doubt you will maybe switch meds to adderal or dexderdrine that my help a bit ..

 

[Keif' Richards]

Not surprising in any way. Your situation is analogous to someone saying "Codeine won't work after using heroin/morphine".

 

[danglesmcgee]

concerta and amphetamines ...same same but very different.

I have been taking concerta for a while now for add. And let me tell you a few things. .... NEVER mix concerta or ritalin with amphetamines. Im no doctor, but from what i understand concerta or ritalin cause the dopamine and norepinephrine to remain in your brain longer.rather then leaving the synapse as it normally would. But meth "instructs" your brain to release MASSIVE amounts of dopamine, norepinephrine and more noticably - serotonin. its important to understand that concerta and amphetamines work in different ways. concerta keeps the dopamine etc in your brain longer, while amphetamines instruct your brain to release LOTS and LOTS of dopamine etc. ...so imagine what the combination of those drugs can do....its powerful.

My advice would be to stop the amphetamines all together, start taking L-Tyrosine which converts to L-dopa then to dopamine. Make sure you have a good source of protein and magnesium when taking L-tyrosine. If your feeling like shit, depressed get some L-trytophan (serotonin precursor). magnesium also is a big help. these supplments will help repair your receptor sites and restore balance in your p-gland. the reason you were not feeling the concerta is because there isnt alot of dopamine left because you've squeezed most of it out during your meth use.

If i was you i would take 500mg L-tyrosine at night, wait 30 mins. then take 150mg of Trytophan (its better to get them in the right order due to complicated synthesis) then in the morning take your concerta, and you will definetly feel the difference. :D
this comes from someone who is prescribed 36mg/day of concerta.

you must be very careful when taking amphetamines and concerta, dopamine depletion can creep up on your very very fast indeed. oh and btw....18mg of concerta is a low starting dose, you should ask your doctor to increase it to 36mg ONCE a day.
I find concerta works best if you only take it max. 5 days a week, and get plenty of sleep if possible. sleep is your brains time to repair, replenish and fix itself. i cant stress enough how important sleep is. getting a good nights sleep is the difference between a 12 day horrible comedown, and a 5 day comedown.

good luck!

 

[danglesmcgee]

Hi there,
Concerta (Methylphenidate) works by blocking the reuptake (recycling) of Dopamine and Norepinephrine, Amphetamine (Speed) works by releasing Dopamine and Norepinephrine, which causes mild depletion of both, however Methamphetamine works by exclusively releasing Dopamine, which causes severe depletion and some neurotoxicity. If you have been heavily using Meth for a month, it's likely that some of your dopamine synapses are gone, and your dopamine levels are depleted, which prevents concerta from working.

Coke also blocks the reuptake of serotonin and has a faster onset of action, which is why you felt better after using it.

I recommend that you start using L-dopa, as this can help by "refilling" your dopamine levels, and Concerta might start working again, however it takes years for the dopamine synapses to fully recover, which is why meth habits are so destructive.

SWIM

^^^ this is quite accurate

 

[Morningshot]

Thanks everyone for your input. These help a whole lot more than I thought some forum could. You sure know your stuff.

After the meth binge stopped 2 months ago, swim has started to take very small doses of coke for 1 month, I'm talking 1g would last for 5-6 days. Just to feel normal. Bought about 4g in that 1 month.
While taking L-dopa.

A month ago, this has stopped as well. While the effects of coke were great, there were absolute zero signs of addiction or craving, not the next day, not a month after.

Now Concerta has starting to make its way back in a very very very faint form. No matter the dosage. Swim can feel it, but feels the same whether i take 18mg or 72.

What the heck of a meth was that bought 3 months ago, tasted like washing powder. Its was a lot of it for the money paid, but you had to take lots to kick in. Bought from a polish guy...messed things up way more than a 1month binge would/should.

I know because swim has been on another 2 month binge about 6-7 years ago, but that was pure stuff, you took a pinky fingernail sized amount and it popped your ears off. Got back to normal within 2-3 weeks...
Purity matters.