Christian hell is a paradox ?

Neural Shock

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"Eternal suffering awaits all those who question God's infinite love".
Bill Hicks relayed this in criticism of Christianity. It's funny but there is a point. The above statement is paradoxical, is it not ? Can someone religious shed some light on this ? I'm genuinely interested in a proper redressing of this argument from a religious standpoint.
 
IMHO I think you should exchanged "God's infinite love" with "what we tell you". I mean, the church as an institution would not know the first thing about Gods infinite love. So what it would mean is if someone questions the authority of the church they would not only be tortured to death (during the dark ages etc) but also damned for all atternity.
 
"Eternal suffering awaits all those who question God's infinite love".

This statement is only paradoxical if you believe it to be true. Historians, particularly those involved in overseeing the accuracy of Biblical translations, would have you believe otherwise. (I do not read Hebrew or Greek, but luckily my husband does, and has copies of the Bible in the original Greek and Hebrew – and has spent a great deal of time studying these texts. To give credit where credit is due, most of the translation information I will go into in a second comes straight from him.)

The word "Hell" is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses other translations read "the grave", "the world of the dead", and so forth. Other Bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered "hell"; that is, they express them with the alphabet but leave the words without translation.

The words in question are the Hebrew she’ohl and its Greek equivilant hai’dies, which refer not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek ge’en-na, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction. However, both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons where the wicked, after death, are punished.

Why all the confusion in translation? Encyclopedia Americana: "Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception."
Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in the rendering of the original-language words. For example (1) The KJV rendered 'she'ohl' as 'hell', 'the grave', and 'the pit'..."haides" is therin rendered both 'hell' and 'grave'...'"geenna" is also translated 'hell'.

(1) Today's English Version of the Bible transliterates "haides" as "hades" and also renders it as ‘hell’ and 'the world of the dead'. But besides rendering 'hell' from 'haides', it uses that same translation for geenna!

(2) The Jerusalem Bible transliterates "haides" six times, but in other passages it translates it as 'hell' and as 'the underworld'. It also translates "geenna' as 'hell', as it does 'haides' in two instances. Thus the exact meaning of the original language words are obscured and confused.

So...IS there eternal punishment for the wicked? And just what is this 'fiery Gehenna' to which Jesus referred?

Reference to Gehenna appears 12 times in the Greek Scriptures (or 'New Testament). Five times it is directly associated with fire. Translators have rendered the Greek expression 'ge'ennan tou pyros' as "hell fire", "fires of hell", "Fiery pit", and "Fires of Gehenna".

Historical Background: The Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) was outside the walls of Jerusalem. For a time it was the site of idolatrous worship, including child sacrifice. In the first century Gehenna was being used as the incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown into the valley to be consumed in the fires, to which sulfur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of a standard burial tomb, were thrown into Gehenna.

Thus, at Matthew 5:29,30 Jesus spoke of the casting of ones 'whole body' into Gehenna. If the body fell into the constantly burning fire it was consumed, but if it landed on a ledge of the deep ravine it's putrefying flesh became infested with the ever-present maggots. (Yum, huh?) Living humans were not pitched into Gehenna; so it was not a place of conscious torment.

At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to "be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna". What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says 'fear him that destroy in Gehenna". By referring to the 'soul' separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person's life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the "fiery Gehenna" have the same meaning as 'the lake of fire' of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, "second death".
When deciphering meaning, we cannot rely on translation alone. We must also take into consideration the surrounding affects – the time period, the audience, etc. Notice the first occurrence of the Greek word, gehenna, is in the Bible in Mt. 5.21-22. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said:

Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.

When Jesus used the term "hell of fire" in these verses, he used the Greek word gehenna for the first time in inspired writing. The word had never occurred in the Greek Old Testament. When we read the word hell, we get a certain image in our minds of what "hell" means. It’s important to remember that none of these ideas came to the minds of Jesus' listeners, because they had never heard the word before in inspired speech.

As Jesus did not define the word "hell," we can only assume that his use of the word relates to the historical reference of Hinnom. To Jesus' audience, his words must have meant what the valley of Hinnom represented in their Old Testament background. Gehenna meant a burning, recalling a valley of slaughter of the Jews for rebelling against God - a calamitous fiery judgment. Jesus’ words would serve as a warning that they were going into the imminent fiery judgment announced by Malachi (Mal. 4.1-6) and John the Baptist. Jesus' first use of the word hell fulfilled Malachi's prophecy of the first announcement of fiery judgment.
In this first passage, Jesus didn't say what gehenna is, but his teaching were fairly consistent with the national judgment announced by Malachi and John the Baptist. The closest fire in the context is (Mt. 3.10-12), where John announced imminent fiery judgment on the nation of Israel. (Mt. 5.29-30)

In context, it would appear that Jesus' words regarding hell were not in fact messages for what happens after death, but rather a generational message, specific to HIS AUDIENCE.
So… if we can conclude that hell, in all its transliterations, does not in fact represent an actual place of torment for the wicked after death… why then would those in religious power seek to perpetuate this erroneous belief? Easy – it’s a matter of manipulation.

The concept of religion is a nifty tool for those seeking power - it has been used to exercise control over the faithful, create political dogma, and profit those who were using the pulpit to manipulate. When it comes to manipulation, religious leaders have a distinct advantage, as the role of religion usurps the very role of God. With religious leaders placed as mediators between God and man, the religious person is led to believe that communing with God is the work of specialists or pastors only. They surrender their belief in a personal relationship with God, and at once are subject to believe only what they are told by those in positions of power within the religion… under the assumption that the messages are one and the same.
Religion was forced upon people through dogma, and belief in it reinforced by a distinct reward/punishment behavioral structure. Creating the image of a "wrathful God" who would serve as a harsh observer and judge over humanity allowed the Church to violate the very concept of freewill. Authentic, true, spiritual acts require they be devoid of the prospect of punishment or reward. People who do good things merely because they expect a reward are not really altruistic, and people who do not do bad things merely because they wish to avoid a punishment are not genuinely virtuous. Punishment and rewards were offered as additional incentives to cooperate with those offering the reward or the punishment. Religion had put itself in a fine position - mediator between man and God - and humanity was completely subjected to the rewards and the punishments contrived by the Church. Manipulators from the pulpit had a fairly foolproof plan. By announcing that they were the only ones who could interpret God’s message, who could possibly go against them?
Jesus spread God’s message of love and hope. He offered believers nothing BUT that. No punishment, no reward, simply peace. The Church offered a punishment for belief in Jesus… Who did the people at the time choose to follow? (Did they really have a choice?) He who offered nothing, or he who yielded the punishment? Faith out of fear was created… and then, later on, when the Church “changed its mind about Jesus” – a new aspect was added to the punishment model – a reward for believers.
A new manipulation was created. Twisting Gods message to fit the dogmatic exploitation. Faith out of fear had been firmly established with the punishment model. Now a new model, building upon that one, was added as further reinforcement.
The basic idea seemed to be that “although God is a wrathful God, who yearns to set our sinful souls ablaze, he is also a MERCIFUL God, who had given us a loophole. He sent his only son, Jesus, to earth so that he could, through suffering, become our savior. If you believe that Jesus is your savior, you have a ticket into Heaven. However if you do NOT believe, then even the least sinful among you shall burn in eternity in Hell.”

Now there is a reward for believing as well – double whammy! If you believe, you avoid the punishment of Hell, and you get the reward of entering Heaven to be with Jesus, your savior. If you do not believe, you not only pass up the reward of Heaven, you also then face the punishment of Hell on top of it all. Further reinforcement – and a clever catch-22 for Christians. The reward/punishment model of Christianity requires that Christians believe in Hell. For if they don’t believe in Hell, than they don’t need Jesus’ Salvation, now do they? And if they don’t need to be saved by Jesus, then they really aren’t Christians, are they?

This catch-22, requiring the belief in Hell, has perpetuated one of the greatest travesties of humanity. The creation of an image of a vengeful, wrathful God, who would just as soon kill all of his creations and subject them to eternal suffering and torturous incarceration. Herein lies the paradox: the very proponents of a “loving God” celebrate the victories of the chosen (the believers) while being unable to recognize the utter victimization and oppression of the un-chosen (or unbelievers).

Hell entails incarceration for holding incorrect beliefs, immeasurable human torture, and cruel and unusual punishment... When, in the past, earthy rulers have participated in any of the aforementioned unsavory activities, they have been labeled as evil tyrants. Why, then, is it ok for God to do it? How can torture ever be considered ethical or good, and how much stock should we put into a God who partakes in such things?

If we believe in Hell, how grateful should we be to a God who created such a horrific punishment merely to punish us for being exactly as he CREATED us to be, and now wants to save us from it? Or rather… how can we believe such a thing? (That old faith out of fear aspect again…) What a contradiction: a KIND and LOVING Heavenly Father who would abandon his children for being disobedient. Who would subject them to the cruelest torture imaginable? In effect, akin to a human parent dousing his child in kerosene for misbehaving!

It is, after all, a paradox, and yet one so easily believed by those who have been raised to have faith through fear. For these believers, there is no other way – you either accept the paradox, never questioning, or you believe your soul to be damned to Hell for all eternity. The paradox itself is the crux of the faith – you must believe and never question, for even questioning is an act deserving of punishment.
 
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So ur saying god, the church and the bible is a loads of codswallop?
If u dont believe in god or jesus u wont go to hell, but u wont go to heaven either?
 
So ur saying god, the church and the bible is a loads of codswallop?
If u dont believe in god or jesus u wont go to hell, but u wont go to heaven either?
No. I was addressing the original question as to whether the idea of a Christian Hell is a paradox because a "loving" God would never create a place of torment for its "children" - who behave only as it created them to behave. In my opinon, the idea of having to believe in hell in order to get to heaven is an unfair catch-22. If there IS a heaven, and there IS a hell, and you would have to beleive in them both, it would be necessary to also beleive a few things that I for one find quite unsavory.

1) God, who is presumably in Heaven, and whom with one would be spending eternity with upon reaching the place if they were so lucky, has created another place full of torment for those who chose not to believe or follow the rules. If this is so... God would be the equivelant of an evil tyrant here on Earth. It would be like a Christian saying that Hitler was justified in torturing the Jews because they held incorrect beliefs. ("It's ok that non-beleivers roast in Hell - that's what they get for not believing the right thing!") Not exactly the kind of supreme ruler I'd like to be spending an eternity with.

2) This catch-22 also creates a problem with the concept of free will. How could you possibly have free will if your only options are to a) believe and go to heaven or b) do not believe and roast in a fiery torment for all of eternity? Not much of a choice there, now is there! It's akin to an abusive father giving his child the choice of constantly praising and adoring him or being beaten. What kind of choice is that?

Further, I went on to explain that the concept of hell very well may be the result of a simple mistranslation. If this is so, then the paradox is resolved, as the image of a loving God no longer contradicts the image of a veangeful God. I then went on to explain why religous leaders (the early Christian church, for example) may have exploited this mistranslation in order to ensure that the people they ruled over would obey - the instituion of Faith out of Fear.

Sorry if there was some confusion as to what I was attempting to say.

[edit...more...]

If this paradox were true, and there was a Heaven and a Hell, I would rather have not existed at all than forced into one of these two choices. Having my existance snuffed out for all eternity is much preferable to me than spending it either:

1) in fiery torment for using the very qualities given to me by the creator (the ability to reason, to doubt, to choose, to come to my own conclusions); or

2) in a place where everyone walks around smug that they were right and made it into heaven, completely disregarding the fact that there are millions upons millions - I would even venture to guess (since the majority of people on Earth are not Christian) - the majority of human souls are suffering in eternal torment.

Bleh. No thanks
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[ 19 April 2002: Message edited by: Flower ]
 
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I get ya now :)
Not that it bothers me, im not a christian, i dont really believe in god
[ 19 April 2002: Message edited by: MattBomb ]
 
"eternal......... infinite..."
so. i'm doomed to eternal suffering but i'm going to be ok cos he's gonna love me forever too?
 
it is a paralogism to state that christian hell is a paradox because the above statement is a paradox.
if hell is defined as the absence of god's love (at some given time) - the concept of christian (?? Catholic/Souther Baptist/...???) hell isnt a paradox if it is possible to reject god's love.
the question becomes - given the existence of gods love - how does one reject that love?
if the answer is - do something against god and his love will be retracted forever (assuming infinite love implies infinite forgiveness)- then we have a paradox.
if the answer is - offered the love - knowing what it is - you reject it - and you limit yourself - seperate yourself from that love - no paradox.
HOWEVER - the idea of hell - mandated by god and not by man - is paradoxical to infinite love (with implied infinite mercy and forgiveness)
just a stab - i can get more formal if ya want.
 
ISn't the whole concept of god (or at least a loving god) a paradox, hell or not?
IF God is omnicient then he had to know every thing, befor he even started. So how can he be a loving GOd if he knowingly would create a world that would produce suffering and pain and dertuction for all its in habitants.
Also why would god create the world then do every thing possible to hide his existance from it. why would he create a world and a people where most reject his existance, in favor of other supreme beings.
Finaly why would a loving god alow an institution that by its very nature has brought more suffering, pain, and death than any other institution in the history of civilization, and alow that instituion to give him/she/it credit.
Every thing about religion, especialy the monotheistic ones is a paradox.
 
That's ass kicking stuff Flower. Now I'm wondering if having a heaven necessitates having a hell. Does one imply the other ? Hmmm.
 
well stated Flower. there is actually a lot of research already published on the sheol, ghenna, hades bit... just to add a thought, there is a bottomless pit sometimes referred to as hell, but only in referance to Satan and his angels. So, we have three official "hell's," that which is simply the grave (centuries ago farmers used to say they were putting their potatoes in 'hell' for the winter, hell being a pit in the ground covered with dirt, i.e. a grave), that which is the lake of fire where souls and bodies are burned up (not eternally burning, but fully consumed and no longer existing), and the pit where Satan and his angels will be locked forever.
Just like there are three heavens: the sky, the Kingdom of Yahweh, and the Highest Heaven -- where Yeshua Messiah is sitting on the right hand of Yahweh.
We enter into the Kingdom upon transformation.
 
i posted this over a year ago under a topic called , "what the hell is hell?" in this forum.

the terms hell and hades lose their meaning through translation allowing them to be interpeted wrong.

english versions of the Bible often use the greek word 'hell' and the greek word hades to translate the same thing.these terms both generally refer to the grave where the dead, both rightous and unrightous wait for judgement.as we are all judged at the same time.(rev 20:12)

in contrast,the greek word geenna,which english versions also translate to the word hell denotes a place of firey punishment.so then in the Bible hell doesnt always have the same meaning.
geenna is derived from the greek word gehinnom which is a gorge on the southside of jerusalem. it was here that isreal conducted the heathen rite of burning children.(2 chron 28:3,33:1,6)

jeremiah predicted because of this sin the lord would make a valley of slaughter where the isrealites would be burned or buried intill there was no more room for there bodies.
jeremiahs prophecy undoubtly led isreal to view gehinnom as a place of judgement and later rabbinical tradition considered and taught it as a place for burning rubbish and carcasses.
when scripture uses the words 'eternal' and 'everlasting' it means that the consquences will be final, never given another chance. for example,the Bible says that sodom and gomorrah "suffered the vengence of eteral fire", yet those cities are not burning today.peter says that fire turned those cities to ashes condemning them to destruction. (2 pet 2:6)- the 'eternal' fire burned intill there was nothing left to burn and then it went out.(jer 17:27,& 2 chron 36:19).

scriptures use of the expression "forver and ever" in (rev 14:11,19:3,20:10) has also contributed to the conclusion that the process of punishing Satan and the wicked will go on throughout eternity. but like "everlasting", the object it modifys determines the meaning of the word "forever".when it is associated with God,its meaning is absolute-for God is immortal; when it is associated with mortal humans its meaning is limited.
throughout scripture it is clear that "forever" has its limits.the old testament says that a slave could serve his master "forever"(ex.21:6) and that jonah thought hed be in the belly of a whale "forever".(jonah 2:6) the new testament says paul once counseled philemon to recieve onesimus "forever"(phil 15) all of these instances mean as long as a person lives.

from the archbishop william temple "one thing we can say with confidence: everlasting torment is to be ruled out.if men had not imported the greek and unbiblical notion of the natural indestructibility of the individual soul, and then read the Bible with all of their minds, they would of drawn from it a belief, not in everlasting torment, but in annihilation.it is the fire that is called aeonian (everlasting), not the life cast into it".

scripture teaches us that the wicked will be "cut off" (ps 37:9,34), that they will perish (ps 37:20,68:2) that they will not live in a state of conciousness forever,but will be burned up.(mal 4:1, matt 13:30,40, 2 peter 3:10) that they will be destroyed (ps 145:20, 2 thess 1:9, hebrews 2:4) and consumed (ps.104:35)
in the new world, which is what the Bible prepares us for-not an afterlife of heaven and hell-"on earth as it shall be in heaven"-there will be no need for sin.immeadiatly upon their sentencing satan and his angels and their followers recieve their punishment."fire came down from God in the heavens and devoured all evil"(rev 20:9) the very surface of the earth outside the cities appears to melt,becoming a vast lake of fire for the "judgement & perdiction of ungodly men"(2 pet 3:7) and anyone whose name was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire (rev 20:15 ) the context of the entire Bible makes it clear that this second death (rev 21: 8 ) the wicked will suffer means their total destruction.

this earth will return to the original eden and how life was originally planned for us to be.

satan was cast to earth to be the ruler here, not in a place called hell. the wages of sin are death-not eternal life in hell (romans 6:23, 5:12)
[ 02 May 2002: Message edited by: beanergrl ]
 
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this is a poem posted by another bl,Goddess, under that same topic.
What the Hell is Hell?
by;gary amirault
There once was a time 'twas plain to see
Just what the hell, Hell was meant to be.
But then the theologians got into the act.
And hell no more was a simple fact.
Hell formerly was a dark hidden space
Imperceivable,covered,a true hiding place.
It could be a place as crude as a shed.
Or could be a helmet to cover your head.
"to simple" so the churches once said.
And now from scheming confusion spread.
They hired the Dantes and Michaelangolos,
To paint pretty pictures of many grest woes.
Fire & torment with much superstition
Was added to pagan mythology & fiction.
The Goddess of Hel from norse mythology
Became Satan , hero of most eschatology.
Jesus the Savior, delivered mankind
He came not for one but all men to find.
His portion became a rather small lot,
While most of mankind in hell-fire would rot.
The way to this hell became broad and wide.
The gift of Gods grace was at it low tide.
Clothes,creeds,& days,the right denomination,
Became the sole means to salvation.
Gehenna,Hades,tartaroo,& sheol
Then all became places that could swallow your soul.
Preachers now had us right where they wanted,
"obey or to hell for you", they often taunted.
Countless denominations of devilish preachers,
Forsook the gift and became satans teachers.
Thousands of ways of deliverence from "Hell",
In common they all carry a self-rightous smell.
"Finished " He cried,"I will draw all mankind"
The Fathers desire "all saved " in His mind.
The task He was given,He accomplished it all.
And as His witness He commissioned St.Paul.
Pauls gospel was different, its easy to tell.
Because never once did he use the word hell.
So hell is no more,its becoming a bore.
Finally taking its place among common folklore.
Punish he will,for our father is just.
An age old correction,you can surly trust.
On vindictive torment our fathers not bent,
Mercy will,yes! triumph over judgement.
[ 02 May 2002: Message edited by: beanergrl ]
 
(before i say anything allow me to say that everything i say is IMHO and i mean nothing but love for the whole human race, so a few hypocritical bl entities dont have to worry about misinterpreting what i say :-P by the way its long, but i think my analogy for hell is the best one ever ever ever hehe)

yes exatly the problem with the "gentile," if i may be so bold, view of christianity is that they base their views on all the misinformation they heard throughout their lives; they almost WANT to belive this misrepresentation of chistianity so they dont have to worry about it...

anyways, Hell is not a real physical place. It does not have a location you can fathom. It is a place that is inconcievable my humans. You cant understand it, you cant picture it, so dont try to. Satan however is a being, a manifestation that was once a strong part of the body that is god, and 99.9% of the earth's population does not percieve him correctly. Hell is seperation from God, simply put.

Satan is the embodiment of lies, do you think he would be a big horned red skinned imp with a pitchfork and tail? No he looks like a GQ billionaire with a big flashy smile, perfect set of teeth, great hair, sexy body, and almost vampiric attractive qualities. You cannot resist him(if you are not strong in your resistance.) Satan is the commercial you see on your television selling you an offer you CANT BELIEVE, but its true!! (or is it?) Selling you that favorite object in such a convincing and flashy way that you KNOW you cant live without it! But of course, the commercial exists simply to get your money by any means possible (even if it has to brainwash you), and such is my analogy for lucifer. The greatist trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world he never existed! (And damn, i must say that it is SUCH a clever trick! I very much admire satan's attempt to blind the world from the truth because its soooo damn good! ANd it obviously works, because i knwo there are hundreds of people reading this right now saying" hahaha what an idiot he believes in fairy tales haha")Satan is not a person u can hold, touch, or see (physically). Satan is the manifestation of rejection of god, and his weapon is taking the truth from your eyes.

Hell is seperation from God. It is not a physical place, there is no real physical pain. Yet the torture is unimaginable. I had a vision of hell once (call me a whacko i dont care) just a short vision not like i went to the place or anything. This is how i sorta picture hell. God is knowledge, God is freedom. Its hard for non-chistians or christians who dont know what the hell christianity really is to understand this concept, but God is freedom. True freedom from this world you cant possibly fathom (unless you bask in it daily like me). To be seperate from the body of God is to be "lost." This is another concept very often misrepresented. Think of what that means, lost. THink about those times where ur drivin through a city, goin to a party or whatnot, have no friggin cluye where u are but u dont wanna be where u are. Everything is foreign, u dont know anyone, damn, this place looks kinda scary! But eventually u get out and ur ok. That lost moment is a good analogy for those who are not part of God's body. Once you join his body, everything becomes clear, u rise above the buildings and fly to your destination with no problem whatsoever.

Heres another one, and this one is a little bit better at drawing a mental picture of what i believe hell to be. Have u ever had a bad trip? Now im not talkin bout a bad emotional trip, or a trip where u broke ur pinky finger, or a trip u just had an uncomfortable feeling throughout, or u puked or whatever.
I mean a BAAAAAAAAAD trip, one where you KNEW u were never again going to taste sweet sanity, one where U DIDDNT know ANYTHING else, nothing, Everything you laid eyes on was one confusing psychadellic "hell." Everyone that talked to you looked so foreign and wierd and everything they said sounded like garbage and just random words and made NO SENSE whatsoever. Your psyche feels like someone put a shotgun to your head and pulls the trigger, NOTHING MAKES SENSE. I DONT GET IT, IM SO CONFUSED u cry out mentally, but are so scatterbrained u cant even talk. Your afraid to talk. Your AFRAID of everything. The very carpet in the room reeks of evil and gives off a sense of sheer doom. Impending doom. Your going to die, oh god please get this shit out of my head! What is wrong with me? Who am I? I dont even know, what is this place (when in fact its probably your best friends bedroom or a simple hotel room or whatever). This place is so scary! I dont get it! THen it just gets WORSE and WORSE and WORSE< you spiral down into a never ending torturous mindfuck of unimaginally horrible confusion. YOu TRY and TRY and TRY to make sense of it all, but you cant. U cant, u try again and u cant. U try forever, uve veen trying for days and years now but u feel like a creatyre that has been insane its whole life. Life whats that? WHat is anything anyway? THe only thing u can think about is that feeling of dread. Its bigger now, its fear. FEAR. You fear everything. Those wierd THINGS (your friends) who are blabbering babberous blabbers at you (trying to calm you down actually lol) are so scary and they look so WIERD (their normal, average everyday best friend faces). So wierd, its scary. FEAR OVERWHELMS YOU. FEAR IS YOUR MASTER. FEAR IS YOUR ONLY GOD. One of those blabbering things touched you. WHOA OMG IM BEING ATTACKED you think. FEAR. Ur a rabid dog trapped in a cage now, tearing like a frenzied animal at anything, literally anything. CONFUSION, ANARCHY, FEAR. U smash everything around you and simply TWEAK out in rage, only to feel violent unimaginable pain surround every individual cell in your whole body. FEAR HATE FEAR DESTROY FEAR RUN AWAY FEAR IM DYING FEAR WTF FEAR -> only things going through your head...You cant even think anymore, your beyond that point, you have returned to your most primitive form. You have been picked up from wherever it is you came from and were rocket launched into a place that is foreign to the most foreign of foreign. U dont try to make sense of it all because your mind no longer processes thoughts, it just lases out in rage and FEAR. FEAR FEAR FEAR. THIS OVERWHELMING SENSE OF FEAR...will this ever end? Am i dead? Is this hell? Hello? Am i the only existing thing in the whole fucking universe? you are lost...so lost...so lost...F O R E V E R (a concept impossible for humans to understand).

this is my analogy for hell. Seperation from god. Inability to see, to percieve, to know. Fear is the mind killer, knowledge is power, right? The truth shall set you free? Eh why do i even bother youll all just call me a blind ignorant christian fool. Hell is like that confused mind state of a horribly bad trip. Except you never come down from it. Ever.

I would like to add that people's problems with christianity lie within not the lack of ability to correctly percieve God and rightousness and that whole lot (allthough its a great contribution) but the problem lies in a man's inability to know what evil is. Like i said above, satan has clouded your minds as to his true form. He stalks this planet like a lion, feasting on your stupidity on a daily basis, AND YOU CANT EVEN SEE IT. Christians and non christians alike fall plague to this problem.

Wordlyness...conformity...i shudder at the thought.

Satan...faschism has many forms. A helping hand, a smiling face, a cheerful gift. An invisible leech, an undetectable thief, a hidden trap. Your misconception of true evil is what keeps you from enjoying this indescribable orgasmic awesome feeling that is membership in God's body.

I love you all,
AMEN!
 
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first off:

thank you flower for your insightful and very detailed asspect for the deffinition of hell (biblically speaking).

second:

start from the begining, the bible states that, God created the heavens and earth. "hell" was not included in this, however, if God is omnicient...then hell would have been created for he would have known that he would be sending people there.....

rewind:

question posed-does God know everything? if i were God, and i believed that i knew everything, and i made a creation, i would tell the creation that i knew everything, because i do not know otherwise. if God believes he/she knows everything than of course it will be told so for God does not truly know any better.
biblically speaking. the bible states God to be the beginning and the end.

now. we know that there is a begining, but there is not a begining to infanity. so it is true that God is God from which he/she became into existance as a God. and will continue to be a God from that point foward.

since there is a starting point of God. this means that God does not know how he/she became to exist.if God knew how he/she became to exist, then God would not be God but rather a creation, under a more supreme being/force. meaning that he/she is not all knowing in the fact of that one point.
God can tell his/her creation that he/she is "all knowing" and that is true, all knowing of what is to be known that he/she could possibly know.

when God created human, he/she created heaven, for which he/she reined, and when human ate from the tree of knowledge, God allowed the gates of heaven to be open for all that believed in him/her. this is a reality that is created. Hell is created by man to be used as a tool for religios control.

Hell is a perfect fictional representation of where bad people should go. however. truth be, if God did not creat hell. then God could possibly not know what happens to someone that does not believe in him/her. God knows that if you believe in him/her that he/she will allow you to enter his/her created heaven. to worship him for eternity. and that is your reality.

my reality and belief is that i am part of a spiritual force that is having a human experience, that when this body that i use for the experience dies. i will then partake in a different reality or existance for the experience.

reality is in actualality forever gaining experiences which will never stop.

the true truth is forever unknown, for reality will never cease. whether your part of this or that. it will continue.
you who believe in the christian faith, just well may be let into heaven where you will worship God forever. and that is your reality, and you think that i go to your depiction of hell, when in fact i may be living another life. experiencing more and becoming more one with the universe. you on the otherhand settled to kiss the feet of God for the rest of your existance. for which your experience in existing has either halted completly or are limited to the creation of heaven by God.

thats just me and my presumed theory.

which im not saying is only true and only fact.
[ 08 May 2002: Message edited by: DJ Ribbit ]
 
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