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capitalist ideals & "selling out"

punktuality

punktuality

Bluelighter
Joined
May 12, 2003
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Location
Canberra, Australia
There is no substitute for talent. Industry and all its virtues are of no avail. - Aldous Huxley
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It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which the capatalist ideal has penetrated our society.

We have pop stars who sing for money rather than expression.
We have artists who paint for an income rather than from the heart.

How sad it is that in this capatalist world we live in some people put money above personal expression and it has penetrated the purest form of self expression we have...the arts.

So many songs in the to40 are by talentless corporate whore hacks who are famous only because of million dollar promotion and marketing campaigns while talented musicians struggle to pay the rent each week.

Artists who try to make art based on "trends" rather than listening to thier hearts.... a real pet hate of mine is artists who try and be "contoversial"... making a "stance" on a public topic to gain attention.

Has the world gone mad?
I thought the arts were about expressing ones inner self through a tangible means...
 
The capitalists greatest strength is their greatest weakness. Because there are some things money can't buy.

Pure intentions, and creativity fueled by passion and love. Think about it...
 
^^^ True yougene, but unfortunately the majority of society isn't that interested.

Hence we get the scenario described by punktuality.

To be expected when corporates can mould the tastes of all the "sheeple" out there.
 
indeed... i think a big part of the problem is our laziness...

we like being told what to like and what to do...
why make educated decisions when someone else can make them for us? Within this logic they even give us the illusion of choice:

Do you like :
a) teeny trash whore - with her single: i have no talent...or
b) homey nigga boyz - with thier track: pop a cap yo!
Call 1900-pay-us-cash to voice your "opinion"

They can cash in on it further by giving us the illusion of choice, but at the end of the day all choices are controlled by enterprisewhich is laughing all the way to the bank.
 
Teeny trash whore and the homey nigga boyz do not create art, they design a product. It isn't a question of selling out, its pure commerce.

Like pepsi or starbucks, or hyundai or whatever, the major labels push a product tailor made to conform to the expectations and desires of a particular audience. Profit is the sole barometer of success.

Its not something I really get concerned about. I don't view it as better or worse than any other aspect of consumerism. There is now, and there always will be exciting, important art being created. Its not that hard to find it. I could just go to a music space downtown right now and find some. Commerce can only take of art what artists are prepared to give it.
 
^----I think it's the other way around. The problem is settng up an environment where talented people can be creative. And talent that won't be disillusioned by the capitalist ideal.
 
^ LOL! Of all the quotes you could have used, you use that one.

Capitalist is the new religion though, and everyone that "buys" into it is just as guilty as the rest of the zealistic people.
 
But it is the American dream. Making some money to live a good life. What's so wrong if they're all fake and sell-outs? Everybody else accepts it.
 
I'm sure a lot of those people feel they have talent. How do we decide whose talent is truly worthwhile and whose isn't, unless we are drawing the line at "What I like" being worthwhile...
 
A reality tv show? :p

I'm sure that was exactly the people I was referring to....;) I don't consider contest winners to be exactly the same thing, but apparently people do consider them to have talent, and love and buy their albums. Whatever floats their boat, but considering that their careers probably will not be long-lasting, I'd think that would indicate (as far as the market is concerned) that the general public doesn't consider that to be much of a talent either.
 
talent (as well as all other goods) are defined by worth in the market place of commodities which, of course, reflects only the sum of the subjective judgements of the consuming public. What, in this universe, could be more fair?

ebola
 
Well, the problem is that there is no protectection for talented people. Those who sell out and can scrounge up a public image win. This goes with all things, and not just art.
Look how food is marketted, nothing about environmental effects or nutrients or benefits, just some good looking models strutting or singing. Our culture is based upon avoidance, illusion, escapism, and things that inflate our ego/emotions. When you have an entire population being developed that is uneducated then you need something to address their tastes.
 
David said:
^ LOL! Of all the quotes you could have used, you use that one.

Capitalist is the new religion though, and everyone that "buys" into it is just as guilty as the rest of the zealistic people.
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excuse me for not understanding, i know you don't like this :) but when you say everyone who buys into capitalism (how is it possible NOT to buy in? unless you live on a commune or by yourself in the wilderness? unless you mean those that USE the system, i.e. entrepreneurs, corporate executives?) is just as guilty as the rest of the 'zealistic' people (I don't think that's a word but i know what you mean), i'm confused.

you're saying that capitalism is a religion, and it's followers (i.e. most of the western world) are just as bad as over zealous religious extremists? I don't see the parallels. I don't understand what you mean by 'guilty' either, are you saying that if I start a company, trade shares or buy a britney spears cd I should feel some kind of shame or guilt? Over what? participating in our system? Do i have an alternative? Or are you just referring to the fat cats consumed by greed, arrogance and lust? In which case I agree! :D maybe I'm just tired :p

sorry for any misunderstanding :(

my personal opinion especially to do with the way the arts (music, literature, drama etc.) are becoming commercialized or companies starting to manufacture them as they would any other product is that it's a natural ongoing process - I see everything, in the traditional buddhist sense, as moving cyclically, and eventually the capitalist system will probably meet its maker, since everything that has a beginning has an end. So I'm not too worried. Just as you and I live and die and are reborn later (personal belief), the world changes as we grow more sophisticated and aware, and sooner or later I hope we will realize our true purpose to seek happiness and abandon the excesses of our modern society - not completely, but at least the excessive desires - greed, envy, jealousy - and be content. But that's an ideal, and not a practicality. sorry for the off topic comments :)

the only thing I think is sad about the current capitalist system is that many people who are heavily involved in its trappings - when I say that I don't mean your average person who buys records, watches movies and listens to advertisements - those that own companies, television stations, marketing firms or what have you - lose touch with their selves, in fact, the same is probably true for a lot of people. We've become so materially obsessed that many have become disillusioned and lost sight of their true goal, to achieve long lasting happiness - or try and go about it the wrong way, through greed and material possessions. but that's even more off topic. :)
 
sourlemon, they are guilty because they are hungry for money/power. People that buy into capitalism embrace the idea "survival of the fittest." That is, the best people receive the most money and power, and there is a constant struggle for it. People will do anything to cut anyone down to get that extra money, and thus power.

The religious zealots would kill or label someone as a heretic and cut them down in a different manner to represent their religion as better, and thus the "fittest."

The problem is, David, that people are naturally lazy bastards. Capitalism is the only known way to motivate people to work for a "common good." Some people just suck (are bad) at certain, or every task. However, they receive the benefits from the talented people who actually know what they're doing. Where the hell is the incentive there to work?

Ever heard of the new saying that the dollar bill is America's God? ;)
 
fizzygirl said:
I'm sure a lot of those people feel they have talent. How do we decide whose talent is truly worthwhile and whose isn't, unless we are drawing the line at "What I like" being worthwhile...
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This is one of those subjective things. Obviously there are going to be "artists" that are good enough to be called talented yet are still "sell-outs". To me the worthwhile of talent is based on the intentions behind the arist(s) that are/is talented. These talented "artists" have apparently been given the gift of having people listen to them through their art, yet they use this gift for the sole purpose of selfish gain, by being puppets of whoever is above them and making money off it. The talent to make art is there but the talent to be a good leader(for lack of a better word) isn't.

This isn't neccasarily the artists fault either as the Entertainment Industry up until fairly recently owned and monopolized the only outlet(s) available to aspring artists. Radio and Television. If you weren't willing to play by their rules then as far as they were concerned you weren't going to play at all.

Notice how I said until recently. Now we have the internet. We have P2P. On the Internet everyone pretty much has equal footing. The internet is now a viable outlet for aspring talent. The fight against file-sharing isn't all about money(although essentially it is), it's about the control of information, the control of knowledge, the control of power.
 
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