Bupe Can someone advise me on Suboxone?

[painenduser]

Hey guys, I have question. I am currently taking MS contin 30 MG's TID and Dilaudid 2MG PRN however because my Dr can not seem to find the exact cause of my pain which is viseral in nature due to liver disease, he wants to start titrating me down off the meds, however, I have been on these meds of 2 years now and I dont really want to be taken off of them 1 because I am still in a lot of pain and 2 because I find that I can not come off of the meds gracefully as I have become physically and somewhat mentally addicted too them. So my question is what if I asked him to put me on Suboxine instead? What kid of pain relief does it offer me and what does it do for the "feeling" you get from being on the pain meds to begin with? I know I will not be able to titrate down gracefully, but I want to be comfortable and with no pain. So can someone give me an idea as to how suboxone could help here and well anything you could share I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks!

 

[cdin]

Bad idea

Since no one else has taken the time, let me give you some serious advice - do NOT, under ANY circumstances start taking suboxone. The pain mitigating effects are minimal at best - as is the high, and if you think you are addicted now to the dillys etc. you got another thing coming. While the withdrawals from your current cocktail may be unpleasant, the suboxone is 10 times worse - ive seen people coming off of it in withdrawal(heavy, puking etc) for 8(30 DAYS8(, so, if you think you have a problem now, just wait. Some call it a miracle drug, i call it a chemical prison and for your purposes it would be quite inadequate. if you need pain relief and a long lasting opioid, use methadone(which is STILL worse than a short acting drug), it has better pain relief and a slightly shorter half-life. and just to explain, that's what is worrisome here - 24/48 for methadone or 20 - 70 for suboxone. Anything with a longer half life is ultimately harder to quit because the withdrawals last SUCH a long time. If you want off, get an ibo treatment or kick the short acting drugs. if you want pain relief, use methadone hope this helped.

 

[painenduser]

Yes that has helped alot cdin! Thank you very very much! I think you just saved me a conversation with my Dr that I was about to have today! OMG, yes thank you! I definitely will not be going the Suboxone route!

 

[nirvus]

hi i saw your post and have some experience in this regard so i thought i'd weigh in if i may:

what cdin said is pretty much true, except for the part about not ever using sub. i was on it for about 3 years and yes, withdrawal from that kind of use is very very hard and takes a long long time. seriously, it's not cool. however, i'd just like to point out that in your case, sub may actually be a good tool for getting what you want from your treatment. here's my reasoning: if you are looking to get off strong opioids (MS and dilly qualify) sub can help you do that with less WD. it can do this because it is strong and you dont take it as often, so you kind of break the cycle of being high, coming down, getting high again. then, when MS and dilly are out of system and you are used to a steady level of sub, you can taper down and wean off of sub. weaning/tapering off sub is not a cakewalk but you can greatly increase your success rate by 1) don't stay on sub too long. for getting off of a regimen like you describe, 1 or 2 months may be sufficient, 6 months at most, but dont panic until that 1 year mark rolls around. 2) use as directed, don't up your dose to get buzzed or snort the pills. i'm not saying you will, i don't know you obviously but just my 2cents about not getting dependent on sub.
another thing is, suboxone is an excellent choice for pain management. it can control even moderately severe pain and there is less mental cloudiness than full agonists. also, you don't need your doctors permission to get on it. you qualify on two counts: if you find you are dependent on pain meds, whether illicit or in your case, prescribed, you can get into a suboxone program to treat the dependency. it is expensive but most insurance will cover it. if you are in pain, you can get into a pain management clinic, and i'm not sure, but i bet they'd be willing to prescribe sub instead of oxy, MS, dilly, etc. it is your right as a patient. oh, i forget this is an international community! in united states this is how it is. if you are elsewhere, YMMV.

again, don't take my word for it. cdin is correct about the long half-life contributing to BAD WD for a long time. if you do get it, you'll have to take less than what they say to and don't take it every day (you really won't even need to). just another opinion, ultimately it's up to you and your docs so good luck.

nirvus

 

[negrogesic]

I would advise a patiient in your situation (given information provided), against BP induction-maint (both personally, and technically as a DATA waived physician). My suggestion will be neither popular nor particularly conventional, but I would suggest instead a methadone maintenance regime (for pain; in the US, good luck!). Nonetheless, methadone is tremendously effective yet upsettingly regulated............find an older physician.........

 

[JD69]

I disagree... with everyone. First, I have some questions. Are you chonically ill? Do you have an end-stage liver disease? Or did you have an acute liver problems which caused great deal of visceral pain and now because you are dependant on opiates, and due to the euphoria/analgesia/withdrawal roller coaster ride of opiate addiction, you do not know how severe your underlying pain is? Do you use more than what is prescribed now? If you have a chronic illness, you should talk to your physician and see why he would want to taper you off opiates after 2 years. You could also ask to be switched to something like fentanyl patches or just ask that he refer you to another physician who is comfortable in treating people with a chronic painful illness. The patches have long acting effects and have dosages created for the opiate tolerant and/or dependant. Methadone would be an alternative in this case too, from a pain doctor, of course. I wouldn't suggest the methadone clinic just due to the number of visits required (daily to start). Even though methadone remains the gold standard for treatment in opiate addiction, it's really a horrible existence. However, if you had an acute liver problem, I would get detoxed with buprenorphine over a week or two and find out how severe your underlying pain is now. As for the post about buprenorphine having horrible, extremely long withdrawals... I think you are confused. Methadone is about the WORST opiate withdrawal you could imagine... and tramadol has a better high. Buprenorphine is an agonist/antagonist (like stadol, nubain, etc) and even when stopping a dosage as high as 12-16mg abruptly, doesn't even compare. You stating that your doctor cannot determine the cause of your pain leads me to believe you may be more in the acute illness and perceived chronic pain catagory and buprenorphine detox would be a my suggestion. I would try to just detox (and maybe get some treatment) and see if you have the will to get through the cravings. If you can't do it, start a buprenorphine maintenance program and stick to as low a dose as possible (4-12mg). All this is in vain if you just like being dependant on opiates.

 

[negrogesic]

^^^Please do not post misinformation in this forum...

"Methadone has the worst withdrawal ever; tramadol has the best high" (to roughly paraphrase)

I haven't the time to dispel your nonsense, but the above comment suggestive of drug-user mythology....

In otherwords, don't post here..........

 

[bben]

^^^Please do not post misinformation in this forum...

"Methadone has the worst withdrawal ever; tramadol has the best high" (to roughly paraphrase)

I haven't the time to dispel your nonsense, but the above comment suggestive of drug-user mythology....

In otherwords, don't post here..........

Methadone does have one of the worst wd's and its not very euphoric as a maintenance drug at all once stabilized.... Tramadol with its minor serotonin releasing properties is more euphoric than normal opiates for certain people and can show greater mood improvement then conventional opiates. Your response is arrogant and is itself actual nonsense. Methadone would likely poll among users and doctors as being the most difficult to withdraw from, and since you claim to be a doctor you should know that. What would you claim as being more difficult to come off of thats commonly used? Euphoric properties are subjective as well. Please do tell why the above post was nonsense as you claim, and provide citations while your at it. Im not sure why your telling the poster to not post here when he is simply offering up an opinion, perhaps you should stop posting here and be banned for baselessly attacking other posters with utter crap.

 

[negrogesic]

^^^As to the part about being a dick; I agree that my comment "don't post here" was (in retrospect) rude, brash and without warrant.

In regards to my suggestion of methadone, please note that in my post I specified that such a suggestion would not be "popular or conventional", so you are likely correct in your assertion that methadone withdrawal would "likely poll among users and doctors" as "most difficult". This perception has been heavily reinforced by the immense number of patients who have been subject to hastily-made/involuntary dose reductions and the unpleasant experience of methadone 'clinics'.

Methadone is an excellent analgesic, a modestly decent drug of recreation, and from my own personal experience having been on MMT, found the withdrawal not particular unpleasant when discontinued gradually and with personal control....

 

[BigJJ]

OK, I can only advise based on my experience..I am 39yrs old, an ex competative bodybuilder and surviving 3 compressed discs 2 bulging discs,degenerative bone disease and space-narrowing...among other things I was taking 60mgs of oxycodone which turned to 90,120 and so on....this lasted a year and i tried to stop the oxy- yeah,right!!! After 3 days of Subox, I was A NEW MAN!!! NO oxy craving at all and the back pain was managable!! I think for whats its for, Suboxone works great!! I've been using for 5 weeks and already tapered in half with no issues...thats my view.....


JJ

 

[NeighborhoodThreat]

This isn't Advanced Drug Discussion level material. Please read the guidelines.

I'm going to move this on over to Other Drugs but I can't promise it will stay open. negrogesic is right, please don't spread misinformation here. That's not what Bluelight is about.

 

[Fire&Water]

Being on methadone (for chronic pain) for close to 6 months in the past I would highly recommend -
an alternative...It does not work for chronic pain for at least half of people prescribed.
Bupe' does not have much pain relieving properties unless you were able to use in-clinic
IV Buprenorphen, which would probably be very inconvenient. But the long term affects of Methadone would be far worse than many full agonist alternatives.

 

[nocolonguy]

Can Suboxone help a 360mgs of Oxycontin a day for close to 7 years now user for chronic pain such as myself? thanks.Forgort to mention that I am also on 3000mgs of Neurontin a day also with the Oxy`s.

 

[muvolution]

First, stay on topic and no fighting in Other Drugs.

nocolonguy- if you are taking 360mg of oxycodone a day, your pain isn't being managed properly. find a new doctor.

OP - I have personally had good luck with Suboxone for Pain Management. It works well for me when combined with other treatments - if you feel like you are on too much opiate medication to be comfortable, or are becoming mentally addicted as well as dependent... I would say bupe is the way to go. Except (if I were you) I would ask the doctor for tamgesic instead of suboxone. Both are buprenorphine, but Temgesic is the formulation for pain.

 

[Fire&Water]

First, stay on topic and no fighting in Other Drugs.

nocolonguy- if you are taking 360mg of oxycodone a day, your pain isn't being managed properly. find a new doctor.

OP - I have personally had good luck with Suboxone for Pain Management. It works well for me when combined with other treatments - if you feel like you are on too much opiate medication to be comfortable, or are becoming mentally addicted as well as dependent... I would say bupe is the way to go. Except (if I were you) I would ask the doctor for tamgesic instead of suboxone. Both are buprenorphine, but Temgesic is the formulation for pain.

Is Temgesic only available in the 0.25 mg's that I'm familiar with ? Is there any difference between Subutex & Temgesic
other than dosage & binders ?
Thanks

 

[muvolution]

Yeah I think so... Subutex and Temgesic are the same drug, just subutex is the ort therapy.