Benzos can klonopin slightly block other benzos?

[Skelu]

Sorry but Restoril is Temazepam.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

Sorry but Restoril is Temazepam.

fixed.. for some reason on rxlist.com they have restoril side effects listed under klonopin and restoril is close enough to rivotril to make me think they were the same.

I had to go to drugs.com to get the clonazepam side effects.. i will switch the xanax ones to the drugs.com ones also

OK all info listed is now from drugs.com
damn that took a lot more work than it should have lol but w/e.. damn rxlist.

there either a lot more side effects from xanax or they went more in depth with the side effects because i copied and pasted exactly what they listed.

OP: ok you can officially have your thread back and i am so sorry for making it off track, i just wanted to prove a point and it was rude of me to do it in your thread, but it was where it was taking place.

 

[dotdoc]

Concerning the OP:

I feel that with the mix-and-match of potent benzodiazepines (alprazolam and clonazepam especially) your perceived level of "highness" can get wonky; you are, in fact, topping off a potent short-acting benzodiazepine with a potent intermediate-acting benzodiazepine.

In my experience when one mixes benzodiazepines of varying half-lives, the intermediate- and long-acting ones seem to boost the "ground floor" of your perception of your drug-induced state up (i.e. combining clonazepam with alprazolam), in which case subsequent redosing of alprazolam will not bring upon a perceived effect equivalent to dosing alprazolam without the clonazepam in full force (at the beginning of the day or when the clonazepam high has almost worn off).

As for the OP mentioning "killing" the high of the initial administered alprazolam, I speculate the culprit is a combination of: the initial alprazolam wearing off (the time to peak for oral administered clonazepam can be up to 3-4 hours IIRC); a tolerance from the user's daily 1mg clonazepam administration; the aforementioned "perceived high"; perhaps paradoxical or difficult-to-explain reactions from chronic benzodiazepine use and abuse.

The Doctor

 

[Znegative]

Wow, I didnt think this thread would be such a hit. I've kind of been thinking what you were saying dotdoc, because I have not been dosing very high ammounts of alprazolam compared to what my body used to consume about a month and a half ago, and since that time the clonazepam has built up its half lives in my system which probably means that the ammount of clonazepam in my blood at most times is actually over 1 mg. This is why I was sort of comparing it to methadone, the difference is of course that my GABA receptors are of course not so saturated that nothing can get me high, I just probably need to take the clonazepam first or with the xanax, and then redose during the day with xanax. I could also buy more clonazepam but I'm hesitant to do so as it might fuck up my tolerance.

As for which is a more energizing benzo, I would have to say that I dont find either at reasonable therapeutic or recreational doses to be quite so sedating. However, I do believe that if your on Methadone or Suboxone, it does have a different effect then when off opioids. I've been on both, and always found that with methadone, the xanax would KNOCK me out, but I could take 10x more clonazepam and not feel a thing. With suboxone, I kind of find it to be the opposite. Xanax is a more energizing drug, and in fact it almost gives me that kind of empathy you get from heroin. Clonazepam at the equivalent dosage gives me the same effect, but if I redose the same way as I do with xanax, I get much more sedated (half life of course).

I'd be really interested to try temazepam if it supposedly hits you faster than xanax. When i take xanax sublingual I really do almost feel a rush from it, I'm literally high in a matter of seconds, and after 5 minutes I'm at peak.

 

[dotdoc]

There is certainly a significant amount of GABA A cross-tolerance arising from your daily clonazepam dosage that is affecting your alprazolam usage--you mentioned administering smaller dosages compared to your previous Xanax habit. I feel that this cross-tolerance in addition to the clonazepam already in your system is causing you to be "not quite where [you] want to be" when you take additional alprazolam during the day.

If you really want to obtain high you desire, increasing your clonazepam dosage won't have much of a difference as increasing your alprazolam dosage in terms of an effect on your tolerance, seeing as how both drugs bind to GABA A receptors, and from my experiences. All in all it seems like you just want us to justify taking more drugs and reaching that high no worries, I am all too familiar with the notion.

However, if you desire a benzodiazepine rush moreso than reaching a certain peak high, perhaps clonazepam is not the benzodiazepine you seek; explore the short-acting benzodiazepines for possible candidates. Midazolam is another benzodiazepine that comes to mind, but my experience with that particular substance is limited.

I find benzodiazepine preference varies greatly from person to person. I know plenty of people who absolutely adore alprazolam and fall asleep on clonazepam; I also know plenty of people who will pass out with as little as 0.25-0.50mg alprazolam but will throw back 2.0mg clonazepams with liquor until the sun rises. I personally never cared for alprazolam aside from occasional therapeutic use as a sedative and hypnotic; clonazepam is another story.

The Doctor

 

[Znegative]

I'm not really trying to justify using more drugs, I'm pretty much just stating that i need more to get high haha, though it is unfortunate because money is tight these days.

I also believe that clonazepam is one of the few benzo's that bind to both GABA A and B receptors whereas xanax binds to only A. I'm not sure if that really matters so much as far as tolerance is concerned but perhaps it could have some effect.

I've wanted to try midazolam a lot, but from the connections I have , the only real benzo's I can get are xanax, clonazepam, and sometimes lorazepam or valium. As far as hypnotics go, I was once lucky enough to try halcion, though in the end it fucked me up so bad that I ended up selling my laptop for coke, and after my first shot, lost the coke and passed out. Not a pretty site.

With Benzo's I don't really like to get WAY high, I hate it when I black out and stuff and my speeh gets all slurry. My tolerance just raised gradually in the past month, and I never got to a point where I was falling asleep during class, or waking up somewhere out in Queens after trying to go home to brooklyn.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Please try to keep the discussion on track and free of personal insults and attacks.

HOOD- you're thinking of Rivotril, not Restoril.

 

[HdoubleODeezy]

HOOD- you're thinking of Rivotril, not Restoril.

lol i know i felt stupid and realized it after.. but if you go to rxlist.com and go under klonopin, when you get to the side effects section it gives you the side effects of restoril instead of klonopin or rivotril and the likeness between rivotril and restoril caught me off guard so i posted the wrong stuff.. but everything is fixed now.
Thanks for lookin out.

 

[kokaino]

First of all, it is always a good idea to provide a creditable link to back your claims, and not leave readers having to google up what you write through keywords.

The people studied by your scientists are heroin addicts, hardly any reliable population which readily hints to IV use of such benzodiazepines. If you look at the benzos they describe as the most abusable, they are all water soluble i.e they end in -pam hence they are injectable. Alprazolam is not injectable, or at least your heroin junkie would not know how to. Temazepam, for the record, is IVed and one of the only ones to produce a so called "rush" (whatever addicts may mean). Temazepam IV use is recorded to produce catastrophic consequences such as limb amputation but we know that benzos are not made to inject, right? IVed temazepam takes seconds to produce effects as opposed to aprox. one hour through oral route.

To add more insult to your arguement: temazepam, flunitrazepam and nimetazepam are HYPNOTIC benzodiazepines. That is, they are not used for anxiolisis, that is, doctors dont presribe them for daytime anxiety relief, so these benzos are, to begin with, no applicable to the argument.

Seriously, I am not trying to argue here but if you are going to try and argue my posts, provide some relevant information.

First of all, none of the benzos which you claim to be water soluble are water soluble. The only benzos which are water soluble are flurazepam, midazolam, and loprazolam (not to be confused with lorazepam), as already mentioned by another poster.

Different benzos have certain pharmacokinetic properties of absorption, distribution, elimination, and clearance that make them more apt to abuse. Temazepam, flunitrazepam, nimetazepam, diazepam (which temazepam is a metabolite of), and other benzos such as triazolam and midazolam - have these pharmacokinetic properties which make them more abuse prone.

Dark, Ross, and Hall et al also conducted research and found that different benzodiazepines have different abuse potential. The more rapid the increase in the plasma level following ingestion, the greater the intoxicating effect and the more open to abuse the drug becomes. The speed of onset of action of a particular benzodiazepine correlates well with the ‘popularity’ of that drug for abuse. Darke, Ross & Hall found that temazepam, nimetazepam, diazepam, and flunitrazepam rated significantly higher than all other benzos. The two most common reasons for this preference were that it was the ‘strongest’ and that it gave a good ‘high’.

Other studies corroborate this - like the relative toxicity studies done in Britain, Australia, Ireland, and Scandinavia - all found temazepam to be the most toxic and most sedating in overdose. The reason for this was because it was rapidly absorbed which lead to higher plasma levels, which in turn created a greater 'intoxicating' effect.

The reason temazepam is more addictive or 'more abused' has to do with it's affinity to the different GABA(A) receptor subunit subtypes (which is why it is an 'hypnotic' - refer to this thread on benzo affinity to different GABA(A) receptors.). Along with that, temazepam has certain pharmacokinetic properties of absorption, distribution, elimination, and clearance that make it more apt to abuse compared to many other benzos.

Please refer to this thread for more information. There are many threads on this board about the relative abuse potential for certain benzos, a simple search would've been easy. I'm not going to post these sources over and over and over again.

Overall, all you have to do is look around you and just see which benzos are most tightly regulated and placed in higher schedules because of abuse epidemics (particularly with temazepam) and ask yourself why? The studies just explain why temazepam, flunitrazepam, and nimetazepam are so popular. Diazepam also, but diazepam is overly prescribed all over the world - so that might explain diazepam's popularity.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^Is it cool with you if I merge this discussion into your thread you linked to? I like your OP deserves more attention and we could keep this all in one place. Your call.

 

[kokaino]

Which thread?

 

[dotdoc]

I'm not really trying to justify using more drugs, I'm pretty much just stating that i need more to get high haha, though it is unfortunate because money is tight these days.

Being in a similar financial situation I can definitely empathise with this. Unfortunately aside from switching to a different drug or supplementing your current habit with a substance that potentiates your drugs of choice or lowers your tolerance, I have found the simplest and most straightforward way of addressing such an issue is either tapering your dose for a while or going on a tolerance break. Taking into account the difficulty of benzodiazepine withdrawal (which I am very familiar with) I personally would recommend tapering your daily dosage to an equivalent of below 1.0mg clonazepam daily. I would think diazepam (Valium) to be better suited for this purpose, having a longer half-life than clonazepam. Ideally a benzodiazepine with little to no recreational value such as chlordiazepoxide (Librium) would be the best candidate; chlordiazepoxide is actually prescribed by doctors for benzodiazepine withdrawal and has an extremely long elimination half-life as a result of its active metabolites.

From my previous experiences I would suggest slowly tapering to a dosage where you won't necessarily receive a benzodiazepine high, but the anxiolytic effects of the drug are still active (think 1.0-2.0mg diazepam daily, perhaps split up into two doses to keep the drug at a good level in your system throughout the day) this way you avoid full-blown withdrawal. Unfortunately as is obvious, this is a commitment that calls for abstaining from recreational benzodiazepine use for the duration of your "break". I feel that this is crucial because relapsing with benzodiazepines is often times very easy to do given the emotional hell that comes with withdrawal.

I also believe that clonazepam is one of the few benzo's that bind to both GABA A and B receptors whereas xanax binds to only A. I'm not sure if that really matters so much as far as tolerance is concerned but perhaps it could have some effect.

There definitely exists a cross-tolerance between the two benzodiazepines in question. If I am incorrect on this I will eat my own hair.

With Benzo's I don't really like to get WAY high, I hate it when I black out and stuff and my speeh gets all slurry. My tolerance just raised gradually in the past month, and I never got to a point where I was falling asleep during class, or waking up somewhere out in Queens after trying to go home to brooklyn.

Fantastic! Unfortunately this isn't always the case.

The Doctor

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Which thread?

Sorry I didn't realize the second thread was also yours. I meant the receptor complex thread.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Benzodiazepines can act interestingly in certain situations.

I have read an article about a specific benzodiazepine (I forget which one) which acts as an agonist typically, but will act as an antagonist within people who are already dependent on triazolam.

First of all, it is always a good idea to provide a creditable link to back your claims, and not leave readers having to google up what you write through keywords.

The people studied by your scientists are heroin addicts, hardly any reliable population which readily hints to IV use of such benzodiazepines. If you look at the benzos they describe as the most abusable, they are all water soluble i.e they end in -pam hence they are injectable. Alprazolam is not injectable, or at least your heroin junkie would not know how to. Temazepam, for the record, is IVed and one of the only ones to produce a so called "rush" (whatever addicts may mean). Temazepam IV use is recorded to produce catastrophic consequences such as limb amputation but we know that benzos are not made to inject, right? IVed temazepam takes seconds to produce effects as opposed to aprox. one hour through oral route.

To add more insult to your arguement: temazepam, flunitrazepam and nimetazepam are HYPNOTIC benzodiazepines. That is, they are not used for anxiolisis, that is, doctors dont presribe them for daytime anxiety relief, so these benzos are, to begin with, no applicable to the argument.

Seriously, I am not trying to argue here but if you are going to try and argue my posts, provide some relevant information.

Midazolam and Loprazolam are the two water soluble benzodiazepines. Flurazepam is also water soluble but is not worth IVing.

It's interesting you ask that people provide relevant information if we are to "argue" your posts. We're just stating facts here, and you seem to be quite off base in your assumptions.

Temazepam has been IV'd, not because it is water soluble, but because it is produced in a formulation that contains solvents; people have IV'd this but it is not a safe practice.

In the past mixing the two has always worked out well for me, but now it seems like I have to do things in some weird order to achieve a buzz. Could this possibly be an issue of tolerance? I've always heard that both clonazepam and xanax had practically the same potency so I imagine not, but the clonazepam does build up in your system do to the half life, and I'm wondering if it can possibly have a methadone like effect.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Or have some possible explanation?

I could believe this to be the case.

Clonazepam's effects are not desiarable for me personally. It doesn't have euphoria and is quite dysphoric for me.

However, it appears most people like clonazepam enough to use it, and I'm not one of these people.

Knowing this, I would assume that clonazepam has a higher affinity. Or, the effects of clonazepam tend to mask the effects of the alprazolam. This is probably the case. This is also why I don't take more than one benzodiazepine at a time. I have in the past, but my experience would typically be that one would mask the other (for instance when I took flurazepam and alprazolam; the effects were not much better than taking the flurazepam by itself since it knocked me out and I stayed asleep for 14 hours).

There's also an excellent thread about the benzodiazepine receptor complex, and how benzodiazepines work within each type of receptor. This might help shed some light on the situation.

 

[Znegative]

That sounds interesting, have to check it out. To DotDoc, I've been thinking about the tapering option as well, and in fact, over the weekend I refrained from any additional xanax and just stuck to my 1 mg of clonazepam, and will probably pick up some alprazolam tomorrow. The only problem with the tapering thing to get high again, is that it takes so much god damn discipline. I've done it before with suboxone (much easier to do), and it does have an empowering feeling once you do get through that first day taking less than your usual dosage, and keep lowering it after that. But whenever I then get "high" my tolerance speeds back up (this goes for both opiates and benzodiazepines.) And then I'm back to square one. I guess in one sense its a good thing I don't have too much money now, because if I did, I'd blow it all, build a larger tolerance, and probably not save anything to taper myself back down to my original level.

Again, as for the effects of clonazepam in comparison with other benzo's, I find it has a much more numbing effect (though that could also be just the minty taste!), but in all seriousness it's a lot like methadone in that it doesn't get you high once you've become accustomed to it but it does help get rid of anxiety; sometimes I feel like it can be a bit over-sedating, which then makes me get depressed, but thats usually if I didn't get enough sleep or something the night before.

Also people often forget that librium is actually water soluble, but since its so undesirable I doubt anyone really even cares. Clonazepam can bet shot at low dosages if you have a 3cc barrel as 100 micrograms dissolve in 1 ml of water according to the stats on this site. I've done this before and like most others who have tried will probably tell you, it is very unpleasant and stupid. No rush, just heavy sedation.