can i get a little help here?

[Mostslepton]

Honestly the best way to lose weight is to simply stop eating Carbohydrates altogether.

The Atkins diet is ok if you can handle the headaches, the being sick and run down all the time, sure.

I think this is one of the worst ideas anybody has ever come up with. Ok, let's completely eliminate one essential nutrient in all its forms. I've had retards try to tell me they don't eat carrots while dieting because they "have carbs".

I would not recommend a ketogenic diet to anybody, least of all somebody who will possibly be working out, thus requiring energy. Last time I checked, carbs are our main source of fuel.

his daily caloric intake?

Yes.

And wouldn't you agree that it'd be really useful as well to know his macronutrient (carb/fat/protein) breakdown as well, if only to make sure protein/fats are high enough for him?

Well, there are numerous benefits to be gained from consuming protein, so having plentiful amounts of protein in one's diet is always koshur.

As far as the other stuff, I personally wouldn't worry about it too much. Keeping such close tabs on macronutrients is really for serious atheletes who would benefit the most from ensuring they have an impeccable diet, not for people just wanting to drop a bunch of weight. In other words, it isn't absolutely necessary. Ultimately, a calorie is a calorie, and while not all calories are created equal (like the heirarchy the body uses when metabolizing calories from alcohol, protein, carbs and then fat), what really matters is total number of calories consumed at the end of the day vs. how many you used up for energy.

Trust me, I didn't know very much about even the most basic nutrition in the begining, and I lost 30 pounds easily and without even modifying my diet in the slightest. Off course, this stuff is good to know and eventually he will have to fine-tune his diet, but he needn't be so strict in the beginning if he simply exercises. I can assure you this is the best way yet to actually go about losing weight - especially if you are accustomed to a sedentary lifestyle and shitty food in disproportionate amounts.

Another thing to consider is going organic or at least avoiding junk food (see: any packaged, processed thing you can find at convenience store, fast foods and chain restaurants, etc.). Even just by eating clean one can notice a difference.

Sometimes people don't like to be too over-whelmed with dieting information, you know?

 

[aanallein]

^ You realize that carbohydrates are not an essential nutrient? Some groups of humans have lived on diets with virtually no carbohydrates at all (Eskimos for example) and have done just fine.

I wouldn't even call it Atkins personally.. its simply the protein/fat only diet and I find that the ONLY thing you have to overcome is the mental aspect. Physically I don't feel bad at all when I'm eating zero carbs (but I usually don't eat many carbs in the first place) its just the carb craving and food choice selection process that gets to me after 2 weeks but goes away after about a month.

I would not recommend a ketogenic diet to anybody, least of all somebody who will possibly be working out, thus requiring energy. Last time I checked, carbs are our main source of fuel

bodybuilders carb deplete on a regular basis and still work out harder than anybody else.. protein can and should be our main source of fuel but we live with unhealthy carb saturated diets. I weigh 255+ lbs and am sub 10% bodyfat - I'm not just some noob talking out of my ass, I actually know quite a bit about nutrition and working out.

 

[Mostslepton]

bodybuilders carb deplete on a regular basis and still work out harder than anybody else..

hmm cite your proofs.

^ Arnold does not approve.

No, but seriously, perhaps the Eskimos are better-suited for eating low-carb diets, as they've most likely adapted to it over time. Off course, I've seen studies to the contrary of such a notion as human beings fully adapting to a no/low carb diet. As evidenced by several scientists, primitive Eskimos were prone to diet-related organ enlargements. Namely, the liver.

But let's say for the sake of argument that Eskimos are ok with it, it's quite another story altogether for the typical citizen of just about any modern, industrialized area you can think of, who is no doubt used to overloading on carbs.

Spring one of these crock diets on your average person who isn't soley subsisting on fish, whale meat, deer and seals (since you provided the example of the Eskimo), and see how their system responds.

And carbs not an essential nutrient? Where did you pull that one from? For starters, how do you account for the enzymes designed for digesting starch?

Sure, protein is your main fuel source and you don't need carbs. If you're a cat. The last time I checked we were omnivores.

 

[aanallein]

Its not essential because it is not essential. The body can synthesize enough carbs to survive without issue.

I've done it for long periods and I didn't die. Therefor, they are not essential. I even worked out 2 hours a day while doing it.

And trust me, bodybuilders carb deplete. I'm an amateur but I know plenty of bodybuilders and they carb deplete leading up to a show. Hell, Arnold carb depleted before his shows..


You sure are argumentative..

Spring one of these crock diets on your average person who isn't soley subsisting on fish, whale meat, deer and seals (since you provided the example of the Eskimo), and see how their system responds.

Their body will respond like any other body - it will go into Carb withdrawal mode and it will start building its own carbs via ketogenisis. Weight loss will happen.

Its not rocket science its basic biology and it works. I'm sorry I've done it personally and its an immediate loss in body fat.

 

[Mostslepton]

I'm sorry I've done it personally and its an immediate loss in body fat.

You can't fool your body into losing weight forever. In the long term, low-carb dieting is doomed, in regard to both weight loss and health. And in this case, by long-term I mean a period of a few weeks.

It is not healthy.

I also know a lot about it because my mother is crazy about this low-carb shit. But I've heard from her and a few other sources that it's generally recommended not to stay on a low-carb diet for longer than one month.Each time she successfully lost weight on it, it was time to go off it. And guess what happens once you start consuming carbs again? You can remain on one of these diets indefinitely, but sooner or later your body will "figure out" what you are doing, and its usefulness for weight loss will then be zero. Off course, this is assuming people do it for weight loss for the most part, otherwise I fail to see the appeal in putting oneself on a ketogenic diet.

I've done it for long periods and I didn't die. Therefor, they are not essential.

lol, are you serious? This logic is very flawed.

"I've smoked cracked for extended periods and I didn't die. Therefor, it is not bad for anyone".

And just because you don't die right away as a direct result of doing something, doesn't necessarily mean that you should do it.

 

[Edvard Munch]

Chop off a leg.

 

[Mostslepton]

Hell, Arnold carb depleted before his shows..

Meh, I'm sure he's done it before.

Here's what he has to say about carb depletion and ketosis in his book:

Carbohydrates, as we've discussed, are also an important fuel for muscular activity. So if your diet is too low in carbohydrates, your workouts will suffer.

Ketosis is caused by eating too little carbohydrate. Though this condition should be avoided, a lot of bodybuilders like the ketosis diet anyway. Carbohydrate deprivation also causes dehydration, and it is easy to confuse the loss of water weight with loss of body fat.

Ketosis is the result of carbohydrate deprivation. Your body requires adequate amounts of carbohydrate in order to properly metabolize body fat. When there is not enough carbohydrate in the body for this process to take place (usually as a result of an overly-strict weight-loss diet), the body has to take emergency measures...The problem is that ketone bodies are not nearly as efficienct in fueling exercise as glycogen. In a prolonged state of ketosis, you tend to be sluggish, your mental processes suffer, and your body gradually becomes dehydrated. Worse, in the absense of carbohydrates your body begins to metabolize larger and larger amounts of amino acids (protein) for additional energy. This is obviously highly counterproductive for anyone trying to build and maintain a solid foundation of muscle mass.
There are other disadvantages to the ketosis diet as well...

Excerpts are from his book, the New Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding.

 

[aanallein]

^ yeah I have the book and have read it. So what?

Your quote doesn't negate anything I've said. Is the original poster a bodybuilder? no, he's trying to drop as much weight as possible in a very specific amount of time. Zero carbs will do that.

a lot of bodybuilders like the ketosis diet anyway

and for good reason - because it works. If you carb deplete for a few weeks out before a show you will drop body fat very quickly while not losing much muscle (especially if you are on some kind of Anabolics). Then right before the show you carb up again so your cells fill with glycogen and you look shredded but you look ridiculously big because your muscles are full. EVERY bodybuilder does this to some degree or another. Some carb cycle, some carb deplete completely, but all of them use Ketosis to drop that last few % bodyfat.

 

[Mostslepton]

Is the original poster a bodybuilder? no, he's trying to drop as much weight as possible in a very specific amount of time. Zero carbs will do that.

No, he isn't a bodybuilder. But between now and August, that's a long stretch to go low carb. He will stop seeing results in a month or so. Further, I personally wouldn't recommed low carb dieting to anybody, and that's all I was originally trying to communicate.

Plus I pointed out how retarded the whole concept behind it is. I can't believe people still buy into it considering it's been debunked as a genuine, risk-free diet.

yeah I have the book and have read it. So what?

Evidently you skipped over some parts. If you'de acknowledged some of the other points in the post you quoted stuff from earlier (see: what about the fact that we have enzymes designed for digesting starches, etc), and if you'de cared to notice the portions that mention dehydration in Arnold's book, and the fact that even though it *works*, should generally be avoided, you wouldn't be in a state of denial. And if people put a little actual research into things , perhaps people like you wouldn't be running around telling others "OMG lolz do the low karb diet it works 4 reelz".

You say you've done it for extended periods, by all means continue to do so. it's your body.

Your quote doesn't negate anything I've said.

Might I suggest you read it again, carefully? It negates your far-fetched and unfounded claims that low carb dieting in general (whether the person using it is a bodybuilder or not) is safe, always effective and without consequence. Oh, and the still unsubstatiated claim that "we don't need carbs". Lolololol.

 

[wamado]

I signed up at Fitday.com

 

[aanallein]

Mostslepton.. I'm sorry but first of all quoting Arnold of all people is ludicrous and secondly CARBS ARE NOT AN ESSENTIAL NUTRIENT. Our body PRODUCES THEM. By definition they are NON essential.

I'm qonna quit arguing with you because not only are you spreading around false info but you are annoying also.

I maintain sub 10% body fat specifically because I avoid carbs. I can get down to 6% body fat by cutting carbs completely for simply a few weeks at a time with no negative effects.

I have DONE it. You haven't so wtf are you on about? It is proven to work effectively. What ISN'T proven is that "its bad for your liver" or it "causes dehydration" (wow just drink more water?).

 

[bingalpaws]

wow I missed so much shit!!

I apologize, hate doing this, going bullet point.


- carbs are not an essential macronutrient, protein and fats are. Monitoring protein/fats is advised during a strong cut due to the negative implications of too-low fat or protein intake. Too low carb intake isn't going to hurt you, although I'm NOT an advocate of a zero carb diet.

- citing a book by a bodybuilder, regardless of whether he's yours (and mine) favorite, isn't valid. Bodybuilders are not credible sources most of the time, as backwards as that may sound at first listen. Think about it and you'll realize why. Also that book itself is known to have errors, I can think of at least one off the top of my head.

- the recommendations to go organic, or drop junk food, are flawed. His weight loss, for the bajillionth time, is a direct result of his caloric deficit.
*Junk food - he can eat tons of junk food and still keep calories in place, he'd need to sacrifice healthier stuff to do so, so it'd be a bad idea, but it most certainly would NOT stop him from his fat loss goals.
*organic!? There's no, I repeat NO, benefit of going organic for his goals.

- more on the carb issue here. Alright, protein and fat are required, they're essential macronutrients, without fat/protein/water, you don't live that long and you get pretty sick pretty quickly. You do NOT need carbohydrates. Again, I wouldn't recommend a zero carb approach though. With respect to the satiety of a given meal, you should realize using more complex carbs will result in more fullness. Now, the general approach on a cut is.....? Determine how many calories you can eat each day. Figure out how many, roughly, are protein/fat. Those extra calories? Fill them with carbs. When you start reducing the diet, carbs are easier / make more sense to cut out first, but don't need to be cut out entirely. If your cut was sooo low that your daily calorie allowance only accomodated your required fat/protein intake, then you would not consume carbohydrates, but his daily goal will not be that low so he'll be fine with some carbohydrates.
(**further on the calories issues here..
-fat is 9 calories/gram
-protein and carbs are 4 calories/gram
-protein has the highest metabolic cost to digest, meaning 1 calorie of protein is more like 0.7 calories in the end, due to the cost of digestion on protein
- alcohol/ethanol is 7 calories/gram, but your body does NOT store it and will digest it preferentially over other stuff in your gut.)
- the back and forth on low/no carbs is pointless and rather trivial. His diet needs to have lower/no carbs undoubtedly if he's to maintain both: a healthy intake of protein/fats, and his daily calorie goals. There simply won't be room for a ton of carbs. He can choose himself if, with the extra calories between his protein/fat intake, and the limit for the day, he wants to consume more protein, fat, or take in some carbs. In the end it's no biggie, so long as he follows his daily calorie goals. We do not beat physics, so we know he will lose weight as such:
* 30 weeks til goal, so ~1.6666 pounds lost per week (stacked heavier in the beginning when it's easier)
* He will start reducing calories and monitoring his weight until he realizes his daily calorie goal, we'll call it "x".
* every day, he can eat:
a grams of protein
b grams of fats
c grams of carbs, where:
(aX4)+(bX9)+(cX4)= "x"

For a and b, he needs certain amounts of raw calories from those two macros. The gap can be covered with carbs (which I'd recommend myself, but this is a subjective area), but can also be covered with more fats/proteins.

The carb thing is so pointless - as long as he's using fitday and nails down what 'x' needs to be, it's simple as shit from that point. Throw in a few/four solid compound strenght sessions a week to keep as much lean muscle as possible (wow, I just went ahead and presumed he even cared about that!! OP - if you could care less about preserving muscle, feel free to drop workouts altogether, or simply swap strength training for cardio during this cut). Just make sure you monitor that scale, and monitor fitday, it's the simplest equation in the world, the reason people cannot ever get results (speaking in generalities clearly) is because they are ignorant as to what their true daily intake needs to be (this is true for both those who try to gain muscle, and those trying to lose fat), or ignorant as to what their actual intake is. If you know what it needs to be, and know what it is, it's a simple game of monitoring the scale and tweaking calories around.

I signed up at Fitday.com

Good man

Let us know if you have more q's.


I'm outta this thread until OP has more q's, or unless someone brings up a genuinely worthwhile point, I'm done nitpicking here lol.

 

[aanallein]

good post bingalpals

and fitday.com should help a lot if you can keep on top of it!

 

[bingalpaws]

Thnx

also, on the fitday note - it's not even like you need to be on it indefinitely. I only pop in for a week or so once in a while, it's more to get an understanding of your intake - after a bit it just kinda becomes second nature and you'll realize you don't need to enter to know where you're at (but again, doing a week every so often helps to keep you on point in case you strayed).

 

[Mostslepton]

I signed up at Fitday.com

Good to know.

Do keep us posted on your progress, if you want. You've taken the first crucial steps in attacking the beast that is surplus poundage. Like I said before, I've been there as well.

Feel free to PM me or post here if you ever feel you could use any extra encouragement or ideas. You have my support. And, I don't like to speak for others, but I'm sure you could PM one of the other members as well.

Good luck.

 

[wamado]

i thought about doing the detox diet...what do you think?........time is running out and i need to get a plan in order. eggs, chicken and vegetables are all ive eaten since i started this.

 

[Mostslepton]

i thought about doing the detox diet...what do you think?

Which one?

 

[bingalpaws]

I think detox stuff is a fad that'll be gone in a couple years - what exact toxins do you think you have, and which product are you talking about? Most of the detox products I've seen had little, if any, solid formulas, and always promised/claimed the most obscure of results ("deep cleansing", "flushes toxins", etc, the height of ambiguity lol!)

 

[mariacallas]

Honestly the best way to lose weight is to simply stop eating Carbohydrates altogether.

Meat, Eggs, Cheese, and small amounts of Leafy vegetables for a few months and you'll drop weight like crazy.

It really does work though. Whenever I want to drop some weight I simply stop eating carbs and I can drop a few lbs a week no problem and no cardio required (I never do cardio).

I have to say.....that this is the only thing that works for me too. I eliminate ALL white stuff from my diet (white rice, bread, chips, sugar, flour, etc) and get my carbohydrates only from green leafy un-cruciferous vegetables. The only thing is I dont limit myself at all...I eat as much vegetables as I want and miraculously, I still lose weight.

Atkins is excellent for jumpstarting weight loss.....after the two week induction phase it doesnt have to be that limiting and you can alter the diet to fit your needs.

 

[mariacallas]

And to be quite honest....when I am on a no (bad) carbs eating regimen I feel very clean, alert and the best part is I have NO annoying hunger pangs that come from ingesting carbs, and I've never had headaches.

But I suppose we are all different and so this may not be the case for everyone.