Can Butalbital potentiate Vicodin?

[semigenius]

I only have a little bit of Vicodin left, and I want to save it. Can Butalbital help make it stronger and allow me to use a lower dose?

Also, is this combination dangerous?

If I only use 5mg hydrocodone, how much butalbital should I take?

 

[Nexius]

It is a sedative if im not mistaken, that will just make you nod. pretty much

i'd take 10mg or more

 

[debaser]

As Nexius said, it adds to the sedative action of Vicodin.
Let me add that it's a strong enzymatic inducer, which means that it *could* lower the blood levels of Vicodin.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

Butalbital is a barbiturate, so of course it will potentate the hydrocodone.

I'm sure it's safe, I know many doctors who prescribe floricet.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

As Nexius said, it adds to the sedative action of Vicodin.
Let me add that it's a strong enzymatic inducer, which means that it *could* lower the blood levels of Vicodin.

True but remember hydrocodone is metabolized into more powerful metabolites.
And, butalbital will help this a great deal. It has painkilling and euphoric effects as well, not just sedative qualities.

 

[Nexius]

Butalbital is a barbiturate, so of course it will potentate the hydrocodone.

I'm sure it's safe, I know many doctors who prescribe floricet.

It doesn't potentiate vicodin, or any opiate in fact it lowers the blood plasma levels of the drug.

Sedatives don't potentiate opiates, all they do is add to the "nod" or sedative effect

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

It doesn't potentiate vicodin, or any opiate in fact it lowers the blood plasma levels of the drug.

Sedatives don't potentiate opiates, all they do is add to the "nod" or sedative effect

You are not the only one studying medicine guy.

Barbs and barb like drugs(Soma, Miltown), Have analgesic properties to themselves and are commonly used in this manner (recreational and medical). It aids in the initial metabolism of hydrocodone to it's more powerful metabolite Hydromorphone.

This in turn is potentation. You might even have to lower your opiate dose in certain situations.

 

[AlphaOdure]

I can not speak to hydrocodone, but I have experience taking butalbital with other opiates. I have been on buprenorphine (suboxone formula) for 6 years. For the past 4 years I was on carisoprodol (soma) -- but recently transitioned to butalbital.

So my own personal experience is as follows: butalbital significantly increases the sedative, euphoric, and analgesic effects of buprenorphine. In fact, despite it being an intermediate acting barbiturate w/ relatively restricted recreational value (relative to other barbs), I have found this drug to be far superior for opioid potentiation than any benzodiazepine or GABAergic substance, any herbal drugs, or any CYP enzyme inhibitors/inducers (which ever would be relevant in increasing levels; I do not know if butalbital is a prodrug & therefore an inducer would conversely increase its effects, for example). However, keep in mind the only opioid i've used in the last 5 years is buprenorphine, taken as prescribed: 4 mg daily. Being a heroin addict, I usually did not have any extra money when I was using other opiates to acquire any other drugs; aside from some benzodiazepines here and there.

I have a moderate-to-high tolerance to butalbital; dosing normally 250-400mg at a time; usually 1500-2000mg daily. To potentiate the effects of buprenorphine (or perhaps even vice versa) I find the optimal time to take butalbital is either immediately after insufflation (which is the ROA I typically use for bupe); or slightly preceding it. Although dosing later does help to draw out the effects of the opioid.

Another point worth mentioning is that butalbital's cumulative effect on opioids (& its effects in its own right for that matter) seem to be susceptible to rapid tolerance, despite being a drug with a very long half-life. And to add- butalbital's detox symptoms are on par with heroin withdrawal, just throw in a bit of paranoia, auditory & visual hallucinations, delirium, extreme panic (literally, like an unending panic attack), convulsions, & seizures (at least from my experience). So play nice with this chemical.

~ ~ ~ ~

DISCLAIMER: do NOT use butalbital at the levels I am taking. Start at the prescribed amount; which is 50 mg -100 mg. You can then push upwards from there if needed; as I find stacking doses within 1 hour to be just as effective. I would not exceed 200 mg in 4 hours if you are barbiturate naive, at least until you know your limits. And also keep in mind the synergistic effects of CNS depression when combining these two drugs

 

[Alex000]

Combining butalbital and hydrocodone in low doses, like a normal recreational dose of hydrocodone and 50 mg butalbital, should be okay. Without a tolerance to barbiturates, 50 mg butalbital will be nice and relaxing, and has the potential to induce euphoria itself, 100 mg butalbital is better if IMO if you are taking it by itself, but if you are mixing it with hydrocodone, I'd stick to just 50 mg butalbital. That should be enough to add significantly to the pleasant effects of hydrocodone. It might not blow your socks off, but higher doses of barbiturates start getting quite dangerous by themself even without combining it with another CNS depressant. Seriously, really dangerous class of drugs, barbiturates are. The lethal dose does not go up as tolerance builds, and can lead to an easy overdose, and barbiturate addiction would be so hellish I cannot begin to fathom. Barbiturate wd's are worse than those of benzos.

 

[AlphaOdure]

^^^Alex, the indicated/recommended dose for butalbital is 50-100mg, however, it is probably a good idea to stick w/ 50mg on the first go if combining w/ an opioid--which is of course also a CNS depressant. However, since the OP indicated he/she is intending to use a smaller amount of hydrocodone than usual I figured 50mg-100mg would be adequate, although I suggest still starting with one pill (or 50 mg of butalbital). While I do NOT recommend this to anyone, I have taken close to triple my normal dose of butalbital (my normal dose is typically 250-300mg) along with buprenorphine with very little adversity (see below).

However, with that said; I have only used butalbital in combination with a mixed agonist/antagonist/high affinity opioid (buprenorphine) & not a full agonist like hydrocodone--conversely however, bupe is known to be sensitive to overdose & even death when mixing with benzodiazepines, and even though barbiturates have a different GABAergic mode of action one would assume the same synergy would apply barbs & opiates. My recommendation to the OPer is to start w/ 50mg-100mg with no more than 10mg of hydrocodone at a time (since it seems the OPer is pretty much opioid naive). Remember! if you aren't feeling much, you can always stack additional barbs if you don't feel any potentiation around 15-25 minutes after dosing seeing as though butalbital has a relatively quick onset, even though it is an intermediate/longer acting barb (if you wait more than 30 minutes, you might as well wait at least an additional 4 hours before redosing butalbital, at least in my experience staking beyond 30 minutes becomes cumulatively less effective). Anyway, i'd recommend dosing both at the same time, and/or taking the butalbital ~10 minutes prior to dosing your hydrocodone. Then redosing butalbital around ~15 minutes after taking hydrocodone if needed; and do not use anymore than 100 mg of butalbital MAXIMUM per dose (or 300 mg per 4 hours, and even THAT is a higher end dose) if you end up having to stack. But of course this is assuming you still have the same tolerance to barbiturates & opioids.

And again Alex:
I have read this over & over how barbiturate toxicity does not increase w/ physical and psychological tolerance to recreational effects. But I haven't noticed this whatsoever. I have taken 1300mg at once, & experienced no extreme adverse side effects other than ataxia & slurred speech. I've never noticed any sort of amnesia, or blackouts, or EXTREME ataxia like I have experienced w/ high doses of benzodiazepines or even carisoprodol (Soma, name brand). Although, with short acting barbs like secobarbital I'm sure one would experience these adverse effects. Either way, i'm sure our posts are irrelevant since this thread was posted some ~2 years ago & the OPer has probably long but ran out of his hydro & butalbital and/or is using higher doses anyway.