Harm Reduction Can antioxidants help prevent dopaminergic neurotoxicity via oxidative stress?

[Machete]

Would foods etc. containing antioxidants be able to ease the neurotoxicity of many dopaminergic stimulants? Presumably they would need to be able to cross the blood-brain barrier -- can they do so?

 

[Jabbawaya]

In short the answer is yes, to a point. Antioxidants definitely help a lot but it won't prevent all toxicity. Staying properly nourished and hydrated, and not overheating, are also crucial. My personal favorite antioxidants which you can search online about are... *pulls open supplement drawer*:

Green Tea Extract, Resveratrol, N-acetylcysteine, Vitamin C

If you're taking molly/MDMA/whatever it's really all the same thing, then Aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) is actually helpful for reducing inflammation and oxidation in the brain, see here for a reasonably well conducted preliminary study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16581972

 

[sekio]

Overall nutrition and fitness is more important than the presence of specific antioxidants.

Presumably they would need to be able to cross the blood-brain barrier -- can they do so?

Most of your body's "native" antioxidants (vitamin C, vitamin E, CoQ10) are either actively transported to the brain or are fat-soluble enough to diffuse across the BBB. Also, flavonoids like e.g. catechin do cross the BBB to an extent.

At best antioxidants will only buy you time though. They aren't some sort of immunity against damage from stimulants.

Also, in general, reuptake inhibitors (methylphenidate, cathinones) do not exhibit the same acute toxicity problems that releasing agents do (amphetamines/MDxx), and dose plays a large effect in the toxicity. (10mg amphetamine is radically different than 100mg amphetamine in terms of damage)

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

Don’t forget metabolites of amphetamines are oxidative doperagenic poisons.

alpha-Methyldopamine is also a contributing factor.

 

[Crankinit]

Something to keep in mind: a lot of the popular anti-oxidant supplements are very acidic, taking them will lower the pH of your GI/Urinary tract, which will drastically increase the speed (heh) at which you metabolize amphetamine type stimulants. For a while I dabbled in taking all sorts of crazy supplements back when I used to use meth quite a bit on the weekends, but I stopped because I was having to go through twice as much meth to maintain the same high because it would break down so quickly in my body. The flip side is that you can have the reverse happen by taking something like bicarb soda which will increase the pH of your GI/Urinary tract, making amphetamines longer lasting. I never tried using bicarb to cancel out the supplements, since I didn't want to mess around with my body any further than I was already doing, but I suppose it might work. Just don't be surprised if you munch down a whole pile of vitamin c or ALA or some other antioxidant and end up having to redose twice as often as usual.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

Something to keep in mind: a lot of the popular anti-oxidant supplements are very acidic, taking them will lower the pH of your GI/Urinary tract, which will drastically increase the speed (heh) at which you metabolize amphetamine type stimulants. For a while I dabbled in taking all sorts of crazy supplements back when I used to use meth quite a bit on the weekends, but I stopped because I was having to go through twice as much meth to maintain the same high because it would break down so quickly in my body. The flip side is that you can have the reverse happen by taking something like bicarb soda which will increase the pH of your GI/Urinary tract, making amphetamines longer lasting. I never tried using bicarb to cancel out the supplements, since I didn't want to mess around with my body any further than I was already doing, but I suppose it might work. Just don't be surprised if you munch down a whole pile of vitamin c or ALA or some other antioxidant and end up having to redose twice as often as usual.

Messing with your bodily pH is a really harmful thing to do. Just imbibe the drug and leave your bodies pH alone please for your own safety.

 

[manoso]

Melatonin is an EXTREMELY powerful antioxidant - in fact, that was likely its primary role in evolution, as it's been found in prokaryotes (Rhodospirillum rubrum, for example, and hundreds of others) that have existed for millions of years. Some docs are investigating its use in preventing Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, etc. - melatonin production also decreases with age, and it may in fact be seriously implicated in the aging process.

 

[drancer]

I take melatonin every day, and I am pleased to read that it's going to help me with my weekend meth fundays. *claps*

Vitamin C and ALA are also great when the effects are wearing off and I want to start repairing my brain and preparing myself for a nice deep sleep. It's blissful.

 

[Crankinit]

Messing with your bodily pH is a really harmful thing to do. Just imbibe the drug and leave your bodies pH alone please for your own safety.

I'm not saying it's a good idea to start fucking around with your pH, just to be ready for the faster metabolism if you're necking a ton of vitamin C or whatever trying to protect your brain from neurotoxicity.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

I'm not saying it's a good idea to start fucking around with your pH, just to be ready for the faster metabolism if you're necking a ton of vitamin C or whatever trying to protect your brain from neurotoxicity.

True.

It will be better to use Melatonin at the end of the night. It will sweep up way more free radicals.

There is also the chances that vit-c will let go of free radicals and then combine over and over.

Melatonin has like two stages of absorbing free radicals and then it is excreted. It effectively permanently bonds with them.

 

[Machete]

Thanks for all the responses.

I was never expecting a magical shield from the negative effects of stimulants (if you know of one, please tell me!)

I'm well aware of the basic mechanism of dopaminergic neurotoxicity (oxidative stress caused by excessive release of free radicals during dopamine destruction) and I know I'm particularly at risk because of the drugs I take (dopamine releasing agents, primarily) and the quantities I take them in -- which is, of course, why I asked the question in the first place!

It's definitely something worth bearing in mind for me though. I'll be looking to increase my antioxidant intake in future. :D

Thanks again, guys.

 

[Moredopamine]

To a limited extent, they might help according to some studies where they inject meth directly into the brains of mice pretreated with massive doses of antioxidants. Antioxidants are no substitute for using your stimulants responsibly. If you're snorting 150mg Adderall a day, antioxidants are about as useful as trying to put out a fire with your spit.

I can't help but believe all the antioxidant use to prevent stimulant toxicity is just a huge placebo that makes one feel better about using large doses of stimulants.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

To a limited extent, they might help according to some studies where they inject meth directly into the brains of mice pretreated with massive doses of antioxidants. Antioxidants are no substitute for using your stimulants responsibly. If you're snorting 150mg Adderall a day, antioxidants are about as useful as trying to put out a fire with your spit.

That is dependent on the antioxidant in question I would presume...

 

[manoso]

It will be better to use Melatonin at the end of the night. It will sweep up way more free radicals.

Since it promotes sleep it is always best to take at night!

Melatonin has like two stages of absorbing free radicals and then it is excreted. It effectively permanently bonds with them.

Melatonin has a fuckload of different antioxidant pathways, and yes it is a "suicidal" antioxidant - doesn't revert like vitamin C does sometimes.