C. Paspali and LAOH

[Psychedelics_r_best]

First of all for someone who doesnt know, LAOH is a psychedelic lysergamide proposed by some to be of the utmost quality, and C. Paspali is a certain type of fungus of the ergot family.

I have been very interested in the selective breeding and culturing of C. Paspali for its traits in having a majority of psychedelic lysergamides and little, or none, of the vascoconstrictive ergopeptides.

I am not sure if the selective culturing is even necessary due to the fact of claims that C. Paspali seems to have only psychedelic lysergamides abd clavine alkaloids.

I know MGS was interested in this, and instead of resurrecting the old thread I decided to start I knew one. I recall something about bioassays? I would much appreciate if you would elaborate on this MGS.

What tools would be necessary in culturing such a selected group of C. Paspali. Does anyone have links to papers?

Just think how amazing it would be guys, if we could just chomp down some C. Paspali sporangia full of psychedelic lysergamides. And thats another thing, are the psychedelic lysergamides present in both lifecycles of the plant? The sporangia and the ergot fungus/ sclerotia that grows on grains? The mushrooms like sporangia just look a little nicer to munch on than those big ergot sclerotia.

 

[fastandbulbous]

It's possible, by adjusting the initial starting nutrients (replacing some natural amino acids with unnatural ones) it's possible to get ergot to synthesise LSD in batch culture rather than other substituted lysergamide alkaloids.

Still have to separate it from other alkaloids and other compounds in the organic soup (obviously first filter to remove suspended matter such as organisms), but that's nothing that a bit of column chromatography can't do!

 

[kidamnesiac]

It's possible, by adjusting the initial starting nutrients (replacing some natural amino acids with unnatural ones) it's possible to get ergot to synthesise LSD in batch culture rather than other substituted lysergamide alkaloids.

Really? Have you seen this done or just speculation?

As far as just eating the Papsali, I don't think it would ever be possible as most of the precusors to the interesting alkaloids are toxic themselves and it is most difficult to not have precursors in an organism (duh).

However, with some serious molecular biology and pathway engineering, you could have it cranking out whatever you wanted along a limited pathway, and, if you were really good, minimize precursors through operon/channeling (think tying all of the final enzymes together so that precursors don't diffuse) manipulation. I think trying to do it through selective breeding would take ages, particularly with how difficult it is to select single colonies (1000X), grow them up, test for alkaloids, wash, rinse, repeat.

To answer other questions, you don't need sporangia, most (all?) cultured claviceps doesn't go to this stage. If you really want to learn about growing these fungis, go to your local uni, browsing through mine I found rediculous amounts of data on small to industrial scale culturing and improvement of the little poisonous ones. It is NOT for the faint of heart or knowledge.

 

[haribo1]

Getting a good column chromatograpy setup for a particular product can be a bit of a pain. I know Casey spent quite a long time perfecting his LSD seperation. He used a dual solvent system and some 'magic' to get it right.
What 'active lysergamide' do you mean? Dimethyl, methylethyl, diethyl, 2,4 dimethylazetidine and sec butanol are all active but what amide are we looking at here?

 

[fastandbulbous]

Really? Have you seen this done or just speculation?

I think it's MGS who has a copy of that research paper detailing the methodology

 

[kidamnesiac]

cool, thanks

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

It's possible, by adjusting the initial starting nutrients (replacing some natural amino acids with unnatural ones) it's possible to get ergot to synthesise LSD in batch culture rather than other substituted lysergamide alkaloids.

Still have to separate it from other alkaloids and other compounds in the organic soup (obviously first filter to remove suspended matter such as organisms), but that's nothing that a bit of column chromatography can't do!

I wasn't really interested in LSD, but more just whatever psychedelic lysergamides the fungus produces naturally. I was asking more about the feasibility of selectively breeding it to have only the psychedelic lysergamides. I did realize that this might be very difficult in that one would have to analyze for alkaloid content in each generation (and of course culture each generation), but that terribly time consuming and difficult chore aside would it not be possible to do this?

Has anyone ever tried just eating C. Paspali to see what happened due to the fact that it naturally contains higher concentrations of psychedelic lysergamides and less of the ergopeptides and whatnot assocaiated with ergotism?

If, from the common ancestor of the claviceps genus, the Paspali species seems to have developed higher concentrations of the psychedelic lysergamides than its relatives, why wouldn't it be feasible to further select and amplify this trait through selective breeding?

 

[fastandbulbous]

Well the principal is valid w.r.t. the overall topic, so I thought I'd include it as it's all about getting Claviceps species to produce psychedelic lysergamide derivatives

 

[Psychedelics_r_best]

^yeah I see its all very interesting. I was just specifically more interested in establishing a selectively bred subspecies that once established could be used as a viable method of consuming psychedelic lysergamides without any risk of ergot poisoning, devoid of further input such as inoculating the growing subtrate with some precursor or whatnot. What you mentioned is very interesting too, however, and I suppose this thread won't go much of anywhere without some outside and other ideas.