Bupe Bupe vs vivitrol for opiate and alcohol addiction

[smokemctoke420]

To make a long story short, I've really gone down hill with the whole dope thing from march to about early October. Well I put myself in outpatient and to a 90 day sub program which starts dec. 11th. I'm doing groups, drug tests, individuals, and getting subs from my sister since the 6th of this month.

I've even replacing my dope addiction with alcohol and I can't seem to stay sober for more then 7 days. Mind you, I'm definetly a alcoholic. I drank almost everyday this summer and I finally got a week of no drinking after like week 2 if being on sub. I'm a chronic relapser tho, with alcohol that is.

My counselor mentions the vivotrol shot but I wanna be able to have a little Self control instead of having the meds just make be able to physically not metabolize and handle alcohol. Then what will I do when I stop in 3-4 months? If I got babied with meds the whole time then how will I learn to deal with it after? I wanna stay clean but I can't stop drinking, even if its once a week.

So my question is.. What would be good for Someone who can't stop drinking and wants to stop dope as well? Suboxone is working for the dope right now... Just fine. It's the alcohol thing that's getting me. I gotta see my counselor at 1030 this morning. But I can pick up subs this weekend but its gonna be expensive or I can get the vivotrol shot. Tis some stressful shit right here.

 

[dopemegently]

I'd never even heard of vitriol before this post; what is it -an opiate? I'll have 2 check it out with search...as far as I always knew, the only 2 options for opiate replacement were meth and bupe. Both come with pros and cons - they have a long half-life so they'll hold you for ages without the constant need to re-dose, but this is also a bad thing; the long half-lives mean it can take far longer to detox from than shorter-lasting opiates. WD's can last for months, if anecdotal evidence is to be believed.

I will say this: think carefully before hopping on the bupe train; I rushed into it, and now I've been on it for the most part of a decade...just keep your options open is all I'm saying.

 

[blue1995]

Vivitrol is a shot of just naloxone. It blocks opiates for around a month.

 

[dopemegently]

Fuck that!

If it works for people, good luck to them, but I've had some very nasty experiences with that shit; there's no way I'd willingly take it. The OP asked whether this vitriol could help with alcoholism; I see no way an opiate agonist could help with cravings whatsoever. If you're feeling desperate, I guess there's Antabuse, but again: nasty past experiences - no chance in hell I'd advocate taking that shit, which IMHO I consider to be poison.

 

[smokemctoke420]

I'm not gonna go and take the Antabuse. I just heard that naltrexone is great for alcohol cravings and for blocking opiates. Idk I'm probaly gonna do the shot cuz I need help with my drinking to.

So its Antabuse and sub vs vivitrol shots and that's it. Idk wtf to do

Edit: apparently vivotrol block endorphins that get released when You drink as well as blocking opiates. Idk how I feel about having a blocker put in me that I can't reverse, even if side effects are horrible, for at least a month.

 

[InHerOwnWrite]

I have never found nalaxone to be helpful in stopping alcohol cravings, or in significantly blocking the effects. I still want to get drunk, and if i go get alcohol, i'm still able to get drunk. I don't understand why doctors recommend nalaxone tohelp alcoholism, it's just never been effective for me. Good job staying off dope tho, OP.

 

[dopemegently]

It's just a marketing gimmick by the pharmaceutical companies to shift more naloxone. It actually happens quite a lot with drugs. SSRI's, for example are being pushed to treat OCD and phobias, despite no evidence they'd be effective at that. End of the day, they want to move more drugs.

For quitting alcohol, perhaps finding a less harmful substitute may be a good idea?

 

[Tommyboy]

Just keep in mind that if you want to take vivitrol you need to be off of all opiates/opioids for 10 days before taking it.

Vivitrol is a shot of just naloxone. It blocks opiates for around a month.

It's naltrexone, not naloxone. Those are two different drugs.

 

[timebomb420]

nothing but suboxone *(an actual opiate agonist) have ever helped my addiction. i think that naloxone shots actually made me feel worse than i had ever felt, and had me on the streets looking for a fix faster than ever.

i swear by suboxone and its ability to control the insanity of opiate addiction. i think naltrexone therapy is 1984's warning and message actualized in its entirety

 

[timebomb420]

also, if you need help with alcoholism, i'd try AA a million times over, before i used an injection of naloxone to deal with it. naloxone is also going to prevent your natural indigenous opiates from being effective at helping your physical body from recovering and achieving a normalcy. it really is a disgusting thing that the pharmaceutical companies are allowed to do such a thing.

it's always safest to introduce LESS chemicals into your body when trying to recover my friend. use your sense of love and purpose to fight your demons, not somebodies scheme for making extra dough!

 

[Tommyboy]

nothing but suboxone *(an actual opiate agonist) have ever helped my addiction. i think that naloxone shots actually made me feel worse than i had ever felt, and had me on the streets looking for a fix faster than ever.

i swear by suboxone and its ability to control the insanity of opiate addiction. i think naltrexone therapy is 1984's warning and message actualized in its entirety

also, if you need help with alcoholism, i'd try AA a million times over, before i used an injection of naloxone to deal with it. naloxone is also going to prevent your natural indigenous opiates from being effective at helping your physical body from recovering and achieving a normalcy. it really is a disgusting thing that the pharmaceutical companies are allowed to do such a thing.

it's always safest to introduce LESS chemicals into your body when trying to recover my friend. use your sense of love and purpose to fight your demons, not somebodies scheme for making extra dough!

When vivitrol was brought up in my outpatient group I said I would never consider it because it sounded like something from 'Nazi Germany' and seemed to be 'cruel and unusual punishment.' Of course the counselor said I wouldn't consider the drug because part of me still wanted to use, but I told her that any drug that can be injected into you and somehow last the month doesn't sound right to me. I was going to play devils advocate with her and say why take a one month shot when we're taking this 'one day at a time' but didn't want to engage her.

 

[smokemctoke420]

I have never found nalaxone to be helpful in stopping alcohol cravings, or in significantly blocking the effects. I still want to get drunk, and if i go get alcohol, i'm still able to get drunk. I don't understand why doctors recommend nalaxone tohelp alcoholism, it's just never been effective for me. Good job staying off dope tho, OP.

yeah, ive never found naloxone heloful for alcohol either. im trying naltrexone tho, which is also marketed towards alcoholics, as well as dope heads like myself.

It's just a marketing gimmick by the pharmaceutical companies to shift more naloxone. It actually happens quite a lot with drugs. SSRI's, for example are being pushed to treat OCD and phobias, despite no evidence they'd be effective at that. End of the day, they want to move more drugs.

For quitting alcohol, perhaps finding a less harmful substitute may be a good idea?

for one all these drugs are free for me so i dont see why my counselor would push it against me. she doesnt get the kick backs. and weed would be a awesome substitute if my supply was large enough. i cant chief tho. shouold have quit a week ago actually but shes not to pressed bout it.

Just keep in mind that if you want to take vivitrol you need to be off of all opiates/opioids for 10 days before taking it.



It's naltrexone, not naloxone. Those are two different drugs.

jesus christ. someone finally knows the difference between naltrexone and naloxone. but yeah i know i gotta get off. she said about being on enough sub or some shit to where i might not have to detox. thats defiently a question for the doc tho in december when i go finally.

nothing but suboxone *(an actual opiate agonist) have ever helped my addiction. i think that naloxone shots actually made me feel worse than i had ever felt, and had me on the streets looking for a fix faster than ever.

i swear by suboxone and its ability to control the insanity of opiate addiction. i think naltrexone therapy is 1984's warning and message actualized in its entirety

suboxone works good for my opiate addiction as well. wouldnt look for naltrexone if i didnt wanna stop drinking. i drink like once a week but crave all the time.

also, if you need help with alcoholism, i'd try AA a million times over, before i used an injection of naloxone to deal with it. naloxone is also going to prevent your natural indigenous opiates from being effective at helping your physical body from recovering and achieving a normalcy. it really is a disgusting thing that the pharmaceutical companies are allowed to do such a thing.

it's always safest to introduce LESS chemicals into your body when trying to recover my friend. use your sense of love and purpose to fight your demons, not someboi dies scheme for making extra dough!

i do wanna try less meds, which is why i wanna do naltrexone for alcohol and opies. i dont wanna be on 2 or 3 different meds. she wants me on ssri's but i got off them in 2010 after numerous years on that and ADHD meds. i dont wanna go back. were gonna see if the shot or subs work first so i got a while before i make that decision.

When vivitrol was brought up in my outpatient group I said I would never consider it because it sounded like something from 'Nazi Germany' and seemed to be 'cruel and unusual punishment.' Of course the counselor said I wouldn't consider the drug because part of me still wanted to use, but I told her that any drug that can be injected into you and somehow last the month doesn't sound right to me. I was going to play devils advocate with her and say why take a one month shot when we're taking this 'one day at a time' but didn't want to engage her.

yeah the part of having a shot i cant reverse for 30 days is a little scary but i might give it a twirl if it will help me. cant hurt at this point.

so pretty much i gotta take sub till Dec 11th when i see the doctor. im gonna get a naltrexone pill and be there for a few hours to see how i react. im gonna taper low on the subs and they said they would help me. so far sub is kicking ass for the opiate part but i drink 1-2 times a week but i really dont want to. i wanna go completly sober, at least for a few months before/if i start smoking weed again or if i drink. i also wanna quit the drinking cuz it makes me wanna do heroin half the fucking time and thats quite annoying.

 

[dopemegently]

Way I see it the whole concept of giving these shots to opiate addicts is that the cravings are eliminated because the drug blocks the effects of opiates; they know using will not get them high. That's it's only useful function. This wouldn't work for alcoholics whatsoever; alcohol doesn't affect the opiate receptors - they can get drunk all they want. So how does that help with their cravings? It just reeks of bullshit to me, of doctors giving placebos to desperate people.

The closest thing to giving naltrexone to opiate addicts imo is using Antabuse; the alcoholic knows that taking a drink will make him violently sick instead of getting him drunk, so in theory it's supposed to reduce cravings. They both sound pretty brutal and sinister to me.

Btw it's not unheard of for opiate addicts who'd had naltraxone implants fitted to attempt to dig the implants out, desperate to get high. I guess the jury's out on whether giving people naltrexone to eliminate cravings works or not. Course, a shot's irreversible, it's not like you can tear the stuff out from your blood.

 

[Morphling]

Oof. I'd personally take the subs. But I have no urge to drink while opiated.

If you are hellbent on getting high, you'll find a way and just replace those things with other drugs. If you're not ready to quit you're not ready to quit.

 

[dopemegently]

That's just it: a lot of people take drastic steps in order to "cure" there addictions quickly, when in reality they're simply not ready to stop using, and they come to regret it badly, because they still need to use. There are many options for these types of addicts; ultra rapid detox, Antabuse, cold turkey, naltrexone implants and shots - and I've heard some very bad things about all of these. I think there is a use for these types of treatments, but the person has to be really ready for them. There comes a point when the desire to get clean becomes stronger than the desire to use; it can take many years and many rock bottoms to reach that point, and sadly some people never reach it. There are no shortcuts to this, and cravings can still be a part of life for people who've been clean for years.

 

[blue1995]

Just keep in mind that if you want to take vivitrol you need to be off of all opiates/opioids for 10 days before taking it.



It's naltrexone, not naloxone. Those are two different drugs.

You're right; thanks for pointing that out. I keep getting them mixed up.