Heroin Black tar clots upon heating

[Mushoku_Sensei]

So.. I finally got myself some H that seems to be black tar since it's smelling like vinegar (and ashes) and is a light brown powder. It has crude pieces in it and doesn't mix with cold water. Upon adding a mini pinch of ascorbic acid and heating gently (no bubbles) most of it dissolves but some bigger pieces also form that become dark quickly. What could they be and what to do about it?
Btw. Fent and Nitazene strips tested negative and Marquis just a hint of faint purple-brown, almost no color change.
As per effect it's definitely an opioid, thought it would be stronger though.
Ideas?

 

[daturetard]

Well shooting black tar is almost certain infection, it's just not clean. Especially if it's weak like ya say. Smoking it or maybe snorting it if that's your thing is probably the best bet.

 

[fairnymph]

So.. I finally got myself some H that seems to be black tar since it's smelling like vinegar (and ashes) and is a light brown powder. It has crude pieces in it and doesn't mix with cold water. Upon adding a mini pinch of ascorbic acid and heating gently (no bubbles) most of it dissolves but some bigger pieces also form that become dark quickly. What could they be and what to do about it?
Btw. Fent and Nitazene strips tested negative and Marquis just a hint of faint purple-brown, almost no color change.
As per effect it's definitely an opioid, thought it would be stronger though.
Ideas?

A light brown powder does not sound like black tar. Was it advertised as black tar? All of the h that I’m able to get here in Europe, either on the street or on the DNM, is terrible now. Weak, short acting and full of nitazenes. Even several years ago when I could still get good h here, when heating there would always be some clumps. Not something I would want to inject without a micron filter. But I typically use my h nasally, with a saline dropper bottle. I make about 3ml worth of solution each day because it loses potency in aqueous solution, so you always want to have a concentrated solution that you make fresh daily. And of course, if you use it nasally you need to be careful not to use too much acid as it will really hurt.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Well shooting black tar is almost certain infection, it's just not clean. Especially if it's weak like ya say. Smoking it or maybe snorting it if that's your thing is probably the best bet.

I didn't even think of an infection risk from the substance itself

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

A light brown powder does not sound like black tar. Was it advertised as black tar? All of the h that I’m able to get here in Europe, either on the street or on the DNM, is terrible now. Weak, short acting and full of nitazenes. Even several years ago when I could still get good h here, when heating there would always be some clumps. Not something I would want to inject without a micron filter. But I typically use my h nasally, with a saline dropper bottle. I make about 3ml worth of solution each day because it loses potency in aqueous solution, so you always want to have a concentrated solution that you make fresh daily. And of course, if you use it nasally you need to be careful not to use too much acid as it will really hurt.

No it wasn't advertised as black tar. I'm European too. Weak and short acting I can totally confirm though the nitazene test came out clean... I was asking how to make out black tar in a different thread and the vinegar smell and clots seem to fit, that's why I thought it must be that. But otherwise I have no idea really.
Thanks a lot for the info, I appreciate it. So the clumps are normal, that's good to know. Meanwhile I found out that I can manually smash most of them, so I get more of it to dissolve. Also thanks for the idea to make a saline solution. I'll give it a try.

 

[fairnymph]

No it wasn't advertised as black tar. I'm European too. Weak and short acting I can totally confirm though the nitazene test came out clean... I was asking how to make out black tar in a different thread and the vinegar smell and clots seem to fit, that's why I thought it must be that. But otherwise I have no idea really.
Thanks a lot for the info, I appreciate it. So the clumps are normal, that's good to know. Meanwhile I found out that I can manually smash most of them, so I get more of it to dissolve. Also thanks for the idea to make a saline solution. I'll give it a try.

Huh, no nitazenes. How long does it last? Even before there were nitazenes on the scene it seemed like there was a lot of short acting stuff that was basically morphine.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Huh, no nitazenes. How long does it last? Even before there were nitazenes on the scene it seemed like there was a lot of short acting stuff that was basically morphine.

I mean I might have made a mistake in handling the test but it looked negative...
Main effect lasts around 20-30 min then rapidly fades with rectal/nasal roa. Iv I didn't note down but definitely not more than 2 hours max and now I don't dare anymore...

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

@fairnymph BTW do you heat the solution or just let it sit with the acid?

 

[fairnymph]

I mean I might have made a mistake in handling the test but it looked negative...
Main effect lasts around 20-30 min then rapidly fades with rectal/nasal roa. Iv I didn't note down but definitely not more than 2 hours max and now I don't dare anymore...

That sounds more like fentanyl but I don’t think I’ve ever had stuff with fentanyl here. That’s VERY short acting.

 

[fairnymph]

@fairnymph BTW do you heat the solution or just let it sit with the acid?

No heat! Just acid & time. Occasionally I’ve had really hard stuff that I do need a little bit of heat to dissolve without waiting like a whole day or something, but I use very gentle heat in a hot water bath, and only as much as I need to make it very slowly melt into solution.

 

[4DQSAR]

Black tar can be a number of different colours. The short duration does suggest fentanyl but it may just be weak. Tar is typically weaker and contains a mixture of alkaloids. Essentially it's made by boiling opium in acetic acid and the fact that ascorbic is needed to make it dissolve suggests that it is the freebase (as one would expect).

Long ago I saw a how to guide on how to shoot BTH but I don't think it's a good idea. If it's the freebase, assume it was intended to be smoked.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

@4DQSAR
I believe it's just weak, and since I'm not familiar with it, I dose very carefully, so the low doses are probably part of the reason it's so short lasting. But I needed so much to get anywhere that I went for iv faster than planned (before getting a feeling for the dose) and obviously quite ill prepared . (And it's hard to give up on the most effective roa tbh)

@fairnymph
Ok so no heat - another day I spoiled some ... What's the danger of heating exactly? Some poisonous burn residues?
And how much acid (pure vit c powder) do I need? Is there any orientation for that?
I also forgot to ask where to find micron filters and yes I tried Google already...
Thank you for bothering
Edit: .. And then how much time and liquid is needed to make say 100 mg dissolve properly?

 

[fairnymph]

@4DQSAR
I believe it's just weak, and since I'm not familiar with it, I dose very carefully, so the low doses are probably part of the reason it's so short lasting. But I needed so much to get anywhere that I went for iv faster than planned (before getting a feeling for the dose) and obviously quite ill prepared . (And it's hard to give up on the most effective roa tbh)

@fairnymph
Ok so no heat - another day I spoiled some ... What's the danger of heating exactly? Some poisonous burn residues?
And how much acid (pure vit c powder) do I need? Is there any orientation for that?
I also forgot to ask where to find micron filters and yes I tried Google already...
Thank you for bothering
Edit: .. And then how much time and liquid is needed to make say 100 mg dissolve properly?

Taking a lower dose doesn’t make it shorter acting.

You don’t want to use heat is bc when in solution, h converts to morphine (& other things), which are weaker & shorter acting with shittier side effects.

How much acid you need exactly depends on the potency of what you have which there’s no way to know without lab testing. You wanna start with a tiny amount of acid. If you have a gram of H, then add just a pinch. Don’t use too much excess water because weaker solutions also convert faster. If you pay attention, you can see the colour change as the h starts to dissolve, plus less cut will remain in the solution. The cut is always going to be at least 50% so keep that in mind. If what you have isn’t powder stir vigourously or even use a tool to break it up manually which will help it dissolve faster. Unless it’s too hard in which case you may need heat. Then you want to let it settle for at 15 minutes. Sometimes it can take up to an hour, depending on the cuts, and occasionally it will be faster, but that’s not common. I use the most V-shaped shot glass I could find online.

The cut will settle to the bottom and then you’ll have a layer of liquid on top which has what you want in it. At this point use a dropper to test one drop of the liquid nasally and see if it’s too acidic. You’ll know because it will burn. It’s fine for it to be slightly acidic and that will actually slow conversion so it’s good for that reason as well but you definitely don’t want it to be too painful because that will damage your nose. If it’s not too acidic, then you add more, again, never more than a pinch, and keep testing until no more of the solids will go into solution (i.e. the bottom layer stops getting small smaller) and it’s acidic. I prefer to use white vinegar because it has a stronger smell so it’s easier to tell when the solution is too acidic and you don’t even necessarily need to test it. It also slows conversion more than citric acid.

Unfortunately, micron filters are really difficult to find online here. But I’ve been able to order some through my local Apotheke by request. Show them an image of what you want. I brought an old one in with me. They’ll absorb a lot of the cuts so I would still recommend doing the gravity filtration method I described above and just putting that top layer of solution into the micron filter because otherwise you waste a lot of micro filters because the cut clogs them up so much. But if you don’t mind wasting micron filters, you can technically just use those alone.

The stuff that I’m using is really pure #4 so you’ll need more h with what you’re using. Around 3-5ml of water a gram.

You could also make a bulk batch if you evaporate the water from the solution you make. So when I was still using #3 I would make a very concentrated (as little water as possible) 10g solution at a time, then put all the top layer except for the little bit I wanted for that day in a shallow dish to evaporate (like for crème brûlée), ideally with a fan to speed it along if you have one. Then whenever I ran out of solution, I would just add some water & rehydrate a little bit from my dish. Keeping it sharply tilted so only a little part of the dish gets wet. You should also rinse what’s left in the shot glass after you takeoff most of the top layer. You don’t want any of the gunk on the bottom layer in your stuff so you’ll always have to leave a little bit of liquid on top. But if you rinse it three times - always with the smallest amount of water possible - you’ll get 99% of the good stuff out. And then you can always keep your gunk if you want in case you’re really desperate, though I generally recommend you throw it away because unless it’s high purity, usually it’s barely worse than being in withdrawal. Feels nasty.

 

[4DQSAR]

Taking a lower dose doesn’t make it shorter acting.

Oh it does. Especially if someone has tolerance. Don't forget that the half-life of both morphine and diamorphine is only about 2.5 hours. So if someone notes the effects are weak, it's not unreasonable for the amount of that drug in someone's body to drop below an active dose far sooner.

Read about the terms EC50, ED50 and especially 'theraputic window'. If the concentration drops below the theraputic window, it essentially has no effect.

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

You don’t want to use heat is bc when in solution, h converts to morphine (& other things), which are weaker & shorter acting with shittier side effects.

... That's making a lot of sense... I made it even weaker ... Still managed to dose ( a bit more than) high enough last night and am still enjoying some shitty side effects rn

How much acid you need exactly depends on the potency of what you have which there’s no way to know without lab testing. You wanna start with a tiny amount of acid. If you have a gram of H, then add just a pinch. Don’t use too much excess water because weaker solutions also convert faster. If you pay attention, you can see the colour change as the h starts to dissolve, plus less cut will remain in the solution. The cut is always going to be at least 50% so keep that in mind. If what you have isn’t powder stir vigourously or even use a tool to break it up manually which will help it dissolve faster. Unless it’s too hard in which case you may need heat. Then you want to let it settle for at 15 minutes. Sometimes it can take up to an hour, depending on the cuts, and occasionally it will be faster, but that’s not. I use the most V-shaped shot glass I could find online.

The cut will settle to the bottom and then you’ll have a layer of liquid on top which has what you want in it. At this point use a dropper to test one drop of the liquid nasally and see if it’s too acidic. You’ll know because it will burn. It’s fine for it to be slightly acidic and that will actually slow conversion so it’s good for that reason as well but you definitely don’t want it to be too painful because that will damage your nose. If it’s not too acidic, then you add more, again, never more than a pinch, and keep testing until no more of the solids will go into solution (i.e. the bottom layer stops getting small smaller) and it’s acidic. I prefer to use white vinegar because it has a stronger smell so it’s easier to tell when the solution is too acidic and you don’t even necessarily need to test it. It also slows conversion more than citric acid.

Unfortunately, micron filters are really difficult to find online here. But I’ve been able to order some through my local Apotheke by request. Show them an image of what you want. I brought an old one in with me. They’ll absorb a lot of the cuts so I would still recommend doing the gravity filtration method I described above and just putting that top layer of solution into the micron filter because otherwise you waste a lot of micro filters because the cut clogs them up so much. But if you don’t mind wasting micron filters, you can technically just use those alone.

The stuff that I’m using is really pure #4 so you’ll need more h with what you’re using. Around 3-5ml of water a gram.

You could also make a bulk batch if you evaporate the water from the solution you make. So when I was still using #3 I would make a very concentrated (as little water as possible) 10g solution at a time, then put all the top layer except for the little bit I wanted for that day in a shallow dish to evaporate (like for crème brûlée), ideally with a fan to speed it along if you have one. Then whenever I ran out of solution, I would just add some water & rehydrate a little bit from my dish. Keeping it sharply tilted so only a little part of the dish gets wet. You should also rinse what’s left in the shot glass after you takeoff most of the top layer. You don’t want any of the gunk on the bottom layer in your stuff so you’ll always have to leave a little bit of liquid on top. But if you rinse it three times - always with the smallest amount of water possible - you’ll get 99% of the good stuff out. And then you can always keep your gunk if you want in case you’re really desperate, though I generally recommend you throw it away because unless it’s high purity, usually it’s barely worse than being in withdrawal. Feels nasty.

Wow... That's some precious advice! Thanks a lot - I mean it and I'll have to work on that...

 

[Mushoku_Sensei]

Oh it does. Especially if someone has tolerance. Don't forget that the half-life of both morphine and diamorphine is only about 2.5 hours. So if someone notes the effects are weak, it's not unreasonable for the amount of that drug in someone's body to drop below an active dose far sooner.

Read about the terms EC50, ED50 and especially 'theraputic window'. If the concentration drops below the theraputic window, it essentially has no effect.

I agree with that. Just recently learned it with Tilidin, which I don't use regularly: When I started out one pill would make me high all day. This year I hardly felt one, and two would last hardly four hours consistently. When I finally took three - there I was, godly done for until late at night again...

Btw:"I don't dare any more" lasted exactly one day. So here's the duration update from the high end of doses, just below the vomiting threshold: That (combo of boof and iv) lasted around 5-6 hours and directly turned into a pretty bad hangover that's still not entirely gone. Didn't even want nicotine today and probably cured me for a while again

 

[4DQSAR]

If someone has NO tolerance then they will 'feel' even quite small quantities of opioids but as tolerance increases, that theraputic windown moves upwards. That's not to say it might not still provide some analgesia, but the user won't actually notice UNLESS they are in pain.

After all, euphoria is considered a side-effect and one goal for doctors is to find a dose that provides analgesia but which does not produce side-efffects.

It's often not possible if someone has tolerance but it is a stated goal.

 

[fairnymph]

Oh it does. Especially if someone has tolerance. Don't forget that the half-life of both morphine and diamorphine is only about 2.5 hours. So if someone notes the effects are weak, it's not unreasonable for the amount of that drug in someone's body to drop below an active dose far sooner.

Read about the terms EC50, ED50 and especially 'theraputic window'. If the concentration drops below the theraputic window, it essentially has no effect.

Sorry, I meant above the threshold necessary for effects.

 

[4DQSAR]

I sort of sounded like tar but I've never heard of that turning up in Europe. Tar can actually be many colours and consistancies. Essentially it's just cleaned (insolubles filtered out) opium boiled in acetic acid - hence the odour.

It's not as if opium poppies aren't grown in Europe but I've never heard of anyone making a concerted effort to convert it to heroin. Could be a one-off, could be a new source. If someone can't extract the morphine and use acetic anhydride (or other acetylsying agent) to ensure uniform diacetylation, it suggests a not very sophisticated production setup.

What makes me laugh is that while AA is controlled, there are actually many other compounds that will do the job - but people don't say what they are because if they did, the alternatives would be controlled. I'm not bragging - they are all known to science. Just not known to H manufacturers.

 

[fairnymph]

I sort of sounded like tar but I've never heard of that turning up in Europe. Tar can actually be many colours and consistancies. Essentially it's just cleaned (insolubles filtered out) opium boiled in acetic acid - hence the odour.

It's not as if opium poppies aren't grown in Europe but I've never heard of anyone making a concerted effort to convert it to heroin. Could be a one-off, could be a new source. If someone can't extract the morphine and use acetic anhydride (or other acetylsying agent) to ensure uniform diacetylation, it suggests a not very sophisticated production setup.

What makes me laugh is that while AA is controlled, there are actually many other compounds that will do the job - but people don't say what they are because if they did, the alternatives would be controlled. I'm not bragging - they are all known to science. Just not known to H manufacturers.

I’ve found one vendor who sells what he claims to be black tar over here but it’s really just black hard rocks of #3 that isn’t even good quality anymore. But for a time it was the best h I could find.