Stimulants Best adderall-like?

[optimuswind]

UK based and it's hard to get / expensive even on the DN.
I've use methylphenidate and rail 20mg IR pills of that, but it's starting to take a month to reset and get any decent effects anymore aside from a sleepless night or two followed by primal anxiety, is 2-MMC similar to addy? any better alternatives?
On the upside it's not that rough on the body just doing the rit, although i'm constantly either in a state of can't be arsed doing anything and then DO ALL THE THINGS PLAN EVERYTHING etc. You know how it is. Started supplementing with Tyrosine at least.

Oh, and regular speed does nothing for me really.

Thanks

 

[fairnymph]

UK based and it's hard to get / expensive even on the DN.
I've use methylphenidate and rail 20mg IR pills of that, but it's starting to take a month to reset and get any decent effects anymore aside from a sleepless night or two followed by primal anxiety, is 2-MMC similar to addy? any better alternatives?
On the upside it's not that rough on the body just doing the rit, although i'm constantly either in a state of can't be arsed doing anything and then DO ALL THE THINGS PLAN EVERYTHING etc. You know how it is. Started supplementing with Tyrosine at least.

Oh, and regular speed does nothing for me really.

Thanks

How does regular speed do nothing for you? It’s very similar to Adderall. Are you getting low quality speed? Because honestly that would be the best alternative and certainly the cheapest.

Beyond that, you could try meth, but I wouldn’t recommend it because it’s more neurotoxic/damaging to one’s health, longer lasting, more addictive.

But any stimulant is going to stop being effective if you take it daily, especially if you take it in large amounts. If you want full effects, you need to use less often.

 

[Keif' Richards]

I'm pretty much in agreement with @fairnymph on this one.

First I'm gonna lay some unwanted truth on you man. If you're using Methylphenidate to the point that you're needing to recharge and take breaks/you're feeling the effects waning, that is the best time to reevauluate your situation. Stronger drugs are only going to put you into a deeper hole. Whatever compulsive behavior you have developed surrounding Methylphenidate use will be present with stronger stimulants and will only make the positive effects wane more quickly. If you have a desire to continue "having fun" with these substances over a long period of time, you are better off looking for ways of reducing your current intake, thus making what you have already, more effective.

It is pretty atypical for a person who has a taste for Methylphenidate (Ritalin; Concerta), an arguably weaker CNS stimulant, not to have a taste for Amphetamine (Adderall). Biochemically/medically speaking, everything that Methylphenidate does, Amphetamine will do with a greater intensity. In medical literature, they use terms like "drug liking". If a person likes Codeine, they're generally gonna love Heroin. If a person likes Methylphenidate, they're generally gonna love Amphetamine, though this isn't a law or anything.

Yes, there are CNS stimulants available on the 'grey market'. My understanding is that they're pretty easy to obtain. I hear that out of all of the previously in-vogue grey-market stimulants, people seem to gravitate toward 3-Methyl Methcathinone or 3-MMC for short.

 

[fairnymph]

It is pretty atypical for a person who has a taste for Methylphenidate (Ritalin; Concerta), an arguably weaker CNS stimulant, not to have a taste for Amphetamine (Adderall). Biochemically/medically speaking, everything that Methylphenidate does, Amphetamine will do with a greater intensity. In medical literature, they use terms like "drug liking". If a person likes Codeine, they're generally gonna love Heroin. If a person likes Methylphenidate, they're generally gonna love Amphetamine, though this isn't a law or anything.

I’m not so sure about this. I’ve noticed that there is a strong tendency for people to have what I call either a meth brain or a coke brain. Basically, there are people who prefer dopamine reuptake inhibitors to dopamine releasers. There are plenty of polydrug users who will use any stimulant they get a hold of but most users do seem to have a distinct preference for one type of stimulant over the other.

 

[shreddedlettuce]

I’m not so sure about this. I’ve noticed that there is a strong tendency for people to have what I call either a meth brain or a coke brain. Basically, there are people who prefer dopamine reuptake inhibitors to dopamine releasers. There are plenty of polydrug users who will use any stimulant they get a hold of but most users do seem to have a distinct preference for one type of stimulant over the other.

I am an example of this. I will admit it.

Coke did very little for me. (purity wasn't an issue, I even tested this anomaly when I found pharmaceutical grade cocaine, literally... no jokes ) - I am talking about years ago, when friends would go get coke, I just said get me a 1/4gr meth orally and I am good.
Methylphenidate did very little for me taken as prescribed for ADHD.

As many of you know, both these hit similar if not the same receptors ( not going to go into that but it makes sense in my situation )

Flipside is the "amphetamines" triggered my switch.

And now, taken as prescribed, a decade later, Lisdexamfetamine is working for my ADHD very well.

So @fairnymph I have also noticed this "meth/coke brain" thing personally.

EDIT have to add that taking my medication at prescribed dose is the actual "normal" feeling I was searching for during the meth abuse stage . @optimuswind if you are just looking for recreational use maybe this info could steer you in a more positive and healthy direction. After all it is your decision, we are just sharing our experiences and mistakes.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Very interesting @fairnymph

I admit that stimulants are not my area or specialty. Your commentary regarding the different mechanisms of each was really intriguing.

This makes some sense regarding a lot of past experiences I've had with stimulant users. Why can't a Crack user just use Meth? It's cheaper. It lasts longer. It is in almost every way, the ultimate stimulant.

Anyway, that was enlightening. I'm gonna defer to you on this subject as you've got me beat

My understanding is that, while there are infinite substituted-phnethylamines (Cathinones, Amphetamines etc.) there are not a lot of Cocaine analogs out there. Why is this?

 

[fairnymph]

My understanding is that, while there are infinite substituted-phnethylamines (Cathinones, Amphetamines etc.) there are not a lot of Cocaine analogs out there. Why is this?

The synthesis of truly potent DARIs is more difficult. That’s really all it comes down to. As far as I know the only cocaine analog is WIN-35428 and no human has admitted to trying it. It is around 3-10x more potent than cocaine and lasts around 7 times longer based on animal studies. Maybe a future project!

I still want to try amineptine too.

 

[daturetard]

The synthesis of truly potent DARIs is more difficult. That’s really all it comes down to. As far as I know the only cocaine analog is WIN-35428 and no human has admitted to trying it. It is around 3-10x more potent than cocaine and lasts around 7 times longer based on animal studies. Maybe a future project!

I still want to try amineptine too.

A drug called WIN35428 sounds like it might cause you to LOSE20+/-5 years of your life span

 

[Smyth2]

Cocaine (phenyltropane) chemistry is a vastly populated field.

Brasofensine might be worth a try but when I tried a 10g sample baggy of tesofensine from China it was really crappy and i ended up losing it because it wasn't any good. It cost me £50 though a few years ago so it was not that big of an amount.

Maybe you need cis (2-beta,3-beta) stereochemistry to end up with agents that have the required biological properties.

RTI-31, RT-51 & RTI-55 are a lot more potent than WIN 35,428.

Come to think of it, i've seen Troparil listed on a Chinese product list and I heard when people were sampling Dichloropane they said it had properties that are not more abusable than regular cocaine.

F. Ivy Carroll goes into depth pondering on all the possible analogs and IIRC he suggests RTI-336 as being a suitable candidate compound.

That would definately be very legalistic to do and requires a highly organized level of work than just growing coca and operating out of a jungle lab.

I was talking to Frank in an email a long time ago and iirc he said something about a lack of funding into cocaine programmes being the chief reason why work in this area has not proliferated further.

 

[Keif' Richards]

A drug called WIN35428 sounds like it might cause you to LOSE20+/-5 years of your life span

Can I get a rim shot for @daturetard please?

Interesting stuff @fairnymph

 

[fairnymph]

Cocaine (phenyltropane) chemistry is a vastly populated field.

Brasofensine might be worth a try but when I tried a 10g sample baggy of tesofensine from China it was really crappy and i ended up losing it because it wasn't any good. It cost me £50 though a few years ago so it was not that big of an amount.

Maybe you need cis (2-beta,3-beta) stereochemistry to end up with agents that have the required biological properties.

RTI-31, RT-51 & RTI-55 are a lot more potent than WIN 35,428.

Come to think of it, i've seen Troparil listed on a Chinese product list and I heard when people were sampling Dichloropane they said it had properties that are not more abusable than regular cocaine.

F. Ivy Carroll goes into depth pondering on all the possible analogs and IIRC he suggests RTI-336 as being a suitable candidate compound.

That would definately be very legalistic to do and requires a highly organized level of work than just growing coca and operating out of a jungle lab.

I was talking to Frank in an email a long time ago and iirc he said something about a lack of funding into cocaine programmes being the chief reason why work in this area has not proliferated further.

Yes, I believe it’s the stereochemistry that’s essential.

Of course stronger doesn’t always mean better. Nitazenes are vastly more potent than morphine based opiates yet most people prefer the latter. So maybe people have tried these more potent analogues and they just aren’t very fun.

Just looking over the list, I’d want to try para-chlorophenyltropane aka RTI-31 - I wouldn’t want to be the guinea pig for RTI-336. I tend to tolerate chlorine substitutions best. Fluorine’s reactivity always makes me a little wary, but I’ve also tolerated fluorinated drugs well. So I’d try WIN 35,428 too.

Which cocaine programmes exactly?

Frank seems to be one of the leading researchers in this area. Wish he would put out some trip reports!