Benzo Tapering (My Story)

[kitsunedemon]

Well I had a look a round, and couldn't see any recent or relevant Benzo Tapering threads, so thought we could share one here if anyone felt like giving advice or similar situations.

I'm Kitsune All.

Reposted from another post, but pretty much explains my current situation.

I have had high dose binges in the past when it was much more weekend only recreational use, such as maybe once every two weeks. E.G. 110mg of Zolpidem, 6mg Clonazepam, 40mg Valium (that was one crazy night, not even usually that bad) for about 1-2months. These binges included, Zolpidem, Zopiclone, Xanax, Clonazepam, Nitrazepam, Lorazepam, Valium. Then began my more daily relationship with Benzos.

My Benzo's of choice currently are Xanax & Klonopin (Rivotril in UK) which I've been taking 4-5 days a week, if not weekly for about 4 months. Then having 1 week breaks. Every month or two weeks.

This past two months I've been taking Clonazepam daily for anxiety (2mg) due to half-life, then weekends binging on about 4-8mg a day, so my tolerance is super high.

Then about 2 weeks ago I've recieved 60 tabs of Xanax .5mg, I'm used to 2mg Bars, but they're harder to find in the UK, so daily for anxiety i take one dose at night of 1-2mg to relieve work related anxiety (i am diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder) but i'm prescribed 200mg of Trazodone (SARI) with anxiolytic/sedative properties (which I haven't been taking), recreationally i've taken max 4mg sublingual with 3-4mgs of Clonazepam.

In reality, I'm always using recreationally, but the added side effect for me is the lack of anxiety, hence my stopping of Trazodone.

I occassionally have been dosing Benzo's (1.5mg Xanax & 2mg Clonazepam) with Opi's (160mg-300mg - with slight tolerance) to potentiate the nod, but only baby Opi's like Dihydrocodeine and not frequently.

Due to Gastrointenstinal issues (not caused by benzos, another problem) i'm being referred to a Gastroenterologist and from next week I will begin tapering (without the doc's they don't know about my benzo usage, but i'm gunna have support from friends, and will maintain my taper) with Xanax and eventually problem move to low doses of Valium (10mg) and taper from that. Have a break for a few months till my health is sorted, then just stick to binges (if possible) and will have to nip addiction in the bud if it comes about, and just stay away from Benzo's due to my addictive nature.

In comparison to some prescribed or recreational long term users, my WD's will mainly be rebound anxiety and insomnia, which hopefully the taper will help with, hoping no seizures. Luckily I will also be going back onto my 100mg dose of Trazodone which should help with rebound anxiety and insomnia.

Any advice guys?

 

[Vaya]

I have reactions to several things you posted.

Any advice guys?

Yes. Make an honest attempt to predict the answer to your pseudo-question here:

Have a break for a few months till my health is sorted, then just stick to binges (if possible) and will have to nip addiction in the bud if it comes about...

...Do you think that's likely?
If you don't know, then examine your current and past behavior with BZD's and related hypnotics.
Would further testing of your limits really be worth pursuing? You yourself reference

...my addictive nature

in relation to BZD's.

To take it further, compare these two statements you made within precisely the same paragraph:

...I have had high dose binges in the past when it was much more weekend only recreational use...

vs.

Then began my more daily relationship with Benzos.

What, in your mind, provides even the slightest doubt that history will repeat itself?

Due to Gastrointenstinal issues (not caused by benzos, another problem) i'm being referred to a Gastroenterologist and from next week I will begin tapering

I fully support - and, in fact, strongly encourage - your resolve to taper down from your habit. But I am unclear as to what the relationship between your GI issues and your tranquilizer usage is. Can you clarify that?

i'm prescribed 200mg of Trazodone (SARI) with anxiolytic/sedative properties (which I haven't been taking), recreationally i've taken max 4mg sublingual with 3-4mgs of Clonazepam.

I, too, have GAD. You would likely significantly benefit from beginning to take your Trazodone. It helps to induce sleep and, as you mentioned, has anxiolytic properties. Both of these realities point towards the fact that you may feel you require less Klonopin and/or Xanax at night and in the morning as a direct result of having the issues you're suppressing with those drugs addressed by the non-addictive medication that lacks the potentially deadly withdrawal syndrome strongly associated with GABAergic pharmaceuticals and alcohol. It seems as though taking your Trazodone is likely to prevent such massive sedative intake in the future. Please, please consider it.

This past two months I've been taking Clonazepam daily for anxiety (2mg) due to half-life, then weekends binging on about 4-8mg a day, so my tolerance is super high.

In comparison to some prescribed or recreational long term users, my WD's will mainly be rebound anxiety and insomnia

I feel compelled to point out that these two statements are at odds with one another. I have had BZD withdrawal-induced seizures several times whilst tapering from a bit less than you state you've been taking. One week breaks here and there are highly, highly, highly unlikely to serve as some sort of preventative measure for the buildup of physiological (not to mention psychological) dependence. I would tread with extreme caution; in fact, I urge you to undertake this plan of action with the assistance of a licensed medical professional. I really mean that.

Lastly, to return to your final sentence:

Any advice guys?

Be vigilant about the taper, and once you've achieved it and the withdrawal symptoms have ceased to disrupt your life, put every effort within your being into implementing a method of approaching your anxiety other than drowning it with gargantuan doses of some of the most difficult (and dangerous/deadly) substances that man and woman can be dependent upon.

Take this issue very, very seriously, Kitsune. I have endured many painful, failed struggles to get off of BZD's over quite some time. Ten years. I have a very intimate relationship with every stage of the progression of dependence, the indecision accompanying my resolve to taper, the medical problems that ensued, and the long-term emotional and cognitive deficits that the substances left me with. I mean this in a suggestive way, but you are toiling in inexplicably dangerous waters if you believe that your BZD intake has been anything but casual. It has left me quite concerned about your short- and long-term health.

Keep us updated, please? I'd like to know how you are once you've started the taper, and if you would like specific recommendations regarding how to proceed with it (as it applies to attitude, dosage reduction, timescale and potential abstinence henceforward).

Take care of yourself!

~ Vaya

 

[yteek]

I wouldn't use any Xanax for a taper, I'd switch to Klonopin or Valium and go from there.

I'd also keep some Lyrica or Neurotin, to help calm your nerves and also fight against the risk of a seizure.

Note, I'm not a doctor but have had my experience with the issue...its no walk in the park.

 

[kitsunedemon]

...Do you think that's likely?
If you don't know, then examine your current and past behavior with BZD's and related hypnotics.
Would further testing of your limits really be worth pursuing? You yourself reference in relation to BZD's.

BZD's and Opiates are pretty much the only drugs I enjoy doing at the moment due to my SARI (Trazodone) and while I do want a break, and to sort this health stuff out drug-free. I don't want to be drug-free forever. I never used to really be a Downer drug user, I tended to take Psys & Empathogens, Psychostimulants and the such. Because of the risk of Serotonin Syndrome, and the SSRI/SARI will always dampen the Psys activity, I just haven't been doing them.

I always stayed away from BZD's because I knew I would become addicted, because I love the feeling they give, pure relaxation and getting rid of all the tense muscles from stress... I love the hypnotic state of the Z-drugs too.

Realistically it's me being scared and prepared for the fact I'm never going to be able damage control and be able to stay away from addiction with them, which means staying away from them altogether...

I fully support - and, in fact, strongly encourage - your resolve to taper down from your habit. But I am unclear as to what the relationship between your GI issues and your tranquilizer usage is. Can you clarify that?

I have decided I'm going to move onto a Valium taper. I've heard that 0.5mg of Xanax is equivalent to 10mg diazepam. I have been taking daily 2mg, so do you think that 40mg Diazepam would be a good taper. Also, as I am a daily user, who only uses one dose at night time, should I do the same with the Diazepam, or stretch it throughout the day (as I do have a job as well - though could still function easily on 10mg of Valium).
As far as I'm aware due to not seeing the GI as of yet, my BZD usage doesn't seem to affect it (but could for all I know!), at least no way near in comparison to Opi usage. My GI issues have been going on long before I started using BZD's, but I'm sure any substance isn't really helping.

The clincher of it all really is, my GP doesn't have any idea I'm addicted to BZD (unprescribed user) or any drugs apart from that I smoke Weed now and then, and I refuse to tell them. They put it on your record, and not only will you be banned from BZD prescription (which would probably be a good thing) but due to Drug Abuse on the record, if I was in severe pain over something, they wouldn't prescribe my narcotic painkillers or anything like that. I just don't trust doctors or GP's. It's taken me nearly 5 months to get referred for my GI problems.

I, too, have GAD. You would likely significantly benefit from beginning to take your Trazodone. It helps to induce sleep and, as you mentioned, has anxiolytic properties. Both of these realities point towards the fact that you may feel you require less Klonopin and/or Xanax at night and in the morning as a direct result of having the issues you're suppressing with those drugs addressed by the non-addictive medication that lacks the potentially deadly withdrawal syndrome strongly associated with GABAergic pharmaceuticals and alcohol. It seems as though taking your Trazodone is likely to prevent such massive sedative intake in the future. Please, please consider it.

As soon as I start the taper, I will be beginning my daily dose of Trazodone. However, it doesn't stop the cravings for sedative/hypnotics as Trazodone in itself isn't enjoyable. It helps me sleep, and helps my anxiety the next day, but if I'm really stressed coming home from work, I couldn't take a Trazodone and it would all feel better like i can with Xanax or Klonopin. The problem is, I use BZD's for my anxiety, but also for recreational purposes too.

I am now prepared to put an end to that, as I don't want to be addicted for the rest of my life, and occasional use is likely to bring me straight back round to addiction.

I feel compelled to point out that these two statements are at odds with one another. I have had BZD withdrawal-induced seizures several times whilst tapering from a bit less than you state you've been taking. One week breaks here and there are highly, highly, highly unlikely to serve as some sort of preventative measure for the buildup of physiological (not to mention psychological) dependence. I would tread with extreme caution; in fact, I urge you to undertake this plan of action with the assistance of a licensed medical professional. I really mean that.

Really? I had absolutely no idea the seizure threshold when tapering could be that low. I just thought mine wouldn't be that bad compared to like 5 year long abusers of BZDs, and I thought you had to be taking them for at least over a year for that bad W/D's. I'm kinda more scared now... The only thing is I'm so worried about admitting to the Doctors that I'm addicted, as they'll want to put me on Daily Dose from the hospital, but with my job, I don't have time for it and I'd rather monitor it myself. Is this completely impossible?

Lastly, to return to your final sentence:

Be vigilant about the taper, and once you've achieved it and the withdrawal symptoms have ceased to disrupt your life, put every effort within your being into implementing a method of approaching your anxiety other than drowning it with gargantuan doses of some of the most difficult (and dangerous/deadly) substances that man and woman can be dependent upon.

Take this issue very, very seriously, Kitsune. I have endured many painful, failed struggles to get off of BZD's over quite some time. Ten years. I have a very intimate relationship with every stage of the progression of dependence, the indecision accompanying my resolve to taper, the medical problems that ensued, and the long-term emotional and cognitive deficits that the substances left me with. I mean this in a suggestive way, but you are toiling in inexplicably dangerous waters if you believe that your BZD intake has been anything but casual. It has left me quite concerned about your short- and long-term health.

How long can I expect the W/D symptoms to affect me based on my usage...? I'm sorry if I made it sound casual, as I know it isn't... I just meant in regards to users who have been taking Xanax 2mg, 3 times daily, for 5 years. I thought as it was over a short period of time, It wouldn't be so bad. Guess I was just fooling myself...

Keep us updated, please? I'd like to know how you are once you've started the taper, and if you would like specific recommendations regarding how to proceed with it (as it applies to attitude, dosage reduction, timescale and potential abstinence henceforward).

I will do, and thank you so much for your advice , and sorry for any confusion. I do take this matter seriously. I will be beginning the taper on Tuesday/Wednesday depending on when my Valium arrives.

I wouldn't use any Xanax for a taper, I'd switch to Klonopin or Valium and go from there.

I'd also keep some Lyrica or Neurotin, to help calm your nerves and also fight against the risk of a seizure.

Note, I'm not a doctor but have had my experience with the issue...its no walk in the park.

I've decided to go for a Valium taper. I do wish I could get my hands on some anti-seizure medication such as Gapapentin or Pregabalin. But without admitting to the Doctors, or going to the Rehab section of hospital, I won't get my hands on either of these.

 

[yteek]

You could make an appointment with a regular doctor, and easily get a prescription for nerve issues...I'd assume. You can also check in with an addictionologist, to help with your taper.

No need to be admitted, most doctors would be willing to help...also beta blockers could come in handy.

 

[kitsunedemon]

Update 12/04/12

Just thought I'd give you guys and update. I've decided I am going to taper using the Ashton Method and am currently in crossover from Xanax to Valium. I've had to do this a bit quicker than recommended due to only having 4 0.5mg Xanax pills left.

So currently over the next 8 days I will be crossing over and am taking half a 0.5mg Xanax pill and 30mgs of Valium nightly. Then I will be on 40mgs of Valium nightly, and will be cutting dosage by 2mg every 1-2 weeks until I'm down to 20mgs. Then from 20mgs I will be cutting dosages by 1mg every 1-2 weeks and holding if my withdrawals get too bad.

I have admitted to my family and friends about my BZD addiction, and they have all been really supportive (even though I probably don't deserve it ) and are going to help me with my taper, and are trying to learn (through the Ashton Method Manual) how BZD's effect the brain and how best to withdraw etc... I already know all of this but it's good they want to get an insight too !

I am also going to my NHS GP (Doctor) and admitting to her about my addiction, and seeing if she will support me in the Ashton Method and prescribe me 2mg Diazepam pills (as I can't really afford to be buying all this Diazepam for myself anymore, and don't have access to 2mg pills) and hopefully she will see this is the best way for me to withdraw and come off of BZD's in general. Once I get under 5mg I will also need Liquid Valium and the only way to get this realistically is via prescription.

I down right refuse to C/T or rapid taper due to the permanent damage it can have to your GABA receptors, and if my Dr refuses to use the Ashton Method I will probably fork out the extra money to find a Private Doctor who will. Failing all else, I will find a way to get some 2mg Diazepam and my Mom (bless her soul ) will oversee my taper.

So I'm on the long road to recovery, my taper is probably going to take 30-60 weeks, but it'll be worth it to be non-BZD dependent. While I'm tapering I'm not going to be taking any drugs recreationally (except maybe Cannabis - occasionally) so that I hopefully won't relapse. I also aim to see a drugs counsellor, and I will be trying to stay at work as well.

I'll keep you all updated as my taper continues

You could make an appointment with a regular doctor, and easily get a prescription for nerve issues...I'd assume. You can also check in with an addictionologist, to help with your taper.

No need to be admitted, most doctors would be willing to help...also beta blockers could come in handy.

I've tried Beta Blockers and they really didn't settle well with me, but I've got some Promethazine which should help with Insomnia if needed as my dose's reduce, and may try some herbal extracts (e.g. Tart Cherry Extract for Anxiety) and when I go see my Dr I will see if she thinks it's best to reinstate my Trazodone (as I've practically C/T'd from it already).

Any advice or thoughts are welcome, thanks guys!

 

[Vaya]

Realistically it's me being scared and prepared for the fact I'm never going to be able damage control and be able to stay away from addiction with them, which means staying away from them altogether...

Stay away from them one day at a time. Once you've successfully tapered, you can tell yourself, "Alright. Tomorrow, I'm gonna take some Xanax and feel really, really good! But for today, I won't take any."
Over a few successive days, the urge will begin to fade. "Begin" is the operative word here. It will take quite a while for you to deconstruct what it took so long for you to construct.

I have decided I'm going to move onto a Valium taper. I've heard that 0.5mg of Xanax is equivalent to 10mg diazepam. I have been taking daily 2mg, so do you think that 40mg Diazepam would be a good taper. Also, as I am a daily user, who only uses one dose at night time, should I do the same with the Diazepam, or stretch it throughout the day (as I do have a job as well - though could still function easily on 10mg of Valium).

Diazepam (Valium) is the ideal choice for tapering down, especially from the doses of clonazepam and alprazolam you were taking. 40mg will be fine. Although I'm no medical professional, you would be well to either take all 40mg at once, or space it out in two 20mg doses (one in the morning, one at night). The former will work just as well because diazepam has a half-life of roughly 100 hours, meaning it takes about four days for half of the diazepam to leave your bloodstream, assuming you only took one dose. You'll be fine with that.

As soon as I start the taper, I will be beginning my daily dose of Trazodone. However, it doesn't stop the cravings for sedative/hypnotics as Trazodone in itself isn't enjoyable.

As you state, Trazadone is not designed to prevent cravings. In fact, I can't really contrive anything out there that might nullify the cravings you will experience. They will be heavy at first, and will become transient the more time that passes. I'm glad to hear you will be taking your medication - Stabilizing a regimen is key to long-term success! That's a wonderful resolution you have there, kitsunedemon

...but if I'm really stressed coming home from work, I couldn't take a Trazodone and it would all feel better like i can with Xanax or Klonopin. The problem is, I use BZD's for my anxiety, but also for recreational purposes too.

I am now prepared to put an end to that, as I don't want to be addicted for the rest of my life, and occasional use is likely to bring me straight back round to addiction.

Your last sentence here really hits the nail on the head! As a ten-year BZD addict (physiologically and psychologically), I implore you to look further into how devastatingly awful benzodiazepine addiction is. Given enough time, it can and will alter the chemistry of your brain. In turn, this alters how you view, interact with and interpret the world around you. It is tantamount to a relatively permanent break from the original "you," and is a terrifying thought - let alone experience.

I come home from work stressed every day. I work with aggressive adolescents with Intellectual and Developmental Disorders and Autism Spectrum Disorders. My days are often thankless, long and (sometimes) physically painful. Yours may be the same. The difference in thinking that I suggest you embrace here is one of being determined to explore alternative ways to cope with anxiety.

Mindfulness is a wonderful example of such a concept; we have an excellent thread here in TDS on mindfulness and I suggest that you read it!
Additionally, some days I will reward myself with simple quiet. I might dine out, or buy myself something reasonable. Other times, I extend myself to help others in my life - and it is by giving away what I have that I keep it, also. This has been a consistent mainstay in my path towards long-term sobriety.

How long can I expect the W/D symptoms to affect me based on my usage...? I'm sorry if I made it sound casual, as I know it isn't... I just meant in regards to users who have been taking Xanax 2mg, 3 times daily, for 5 years. I thought as it was over a short period of time, It wouldn't be so bad. Guess I was just fooling myself...

I can't really give you a concrete answer to this, as it is dependent on so many variables. Obviously, the withdrawal for a chronic user will be much longer and much worse than for you. If I were to give a reasonable estimate, I might say 1-3 months, depending on which symptom of BZD withdrawal we are talking about. Insomnia, for example, may dissipate far more quickly than influxes in anxiety. With a proper course of tapering down, though, you shouldn't feel the more deleterious effects of BZD withdrawal. I would feel comforted by this fact!!

Lastly, I want to apologize for the length of time it took for me to reply to your message. Life precluded me from participating with Bluelight as actively as I might have liked to these past few days.

Take care, and by all means, continue to provide us with updates, kitsune
Good luck!

~ Vaya

 

[kitsunedemon]

Thanks for the response Vaya .

If you have a look at the post above the reply you just gave, there is my most recent update. I've started my crossover and am going to be taking 40mg Diazepam nightly very soon (within 8 days).

I will give you and update again when I've spoke to Dr and let you know whether I'm gunna have to pay for my own taper, or if she will help me using the Ashton Method.

Take Care

kitsunedemon