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Benzos (Barbiturates) Just got a Rx for Fioricet

Methacodone

Methacodone

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Sep 25, 2014
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Ok, this shit is weird as hell, Fioricet is NOT a controlled substance here in the states, BUT Fiorinal is a schedule 3 controlled substance, wtf? Lol.
The ONLY difference between the 2 is Fioricet has APAP/Tylenol and Fiorinal has Aspirin instead.

This is BIZZARE to me.

Fioricet is a combination of Acetaminophen/Butalbital/Caffeine, Fiorinal is a combination of Aspirin/Butalbital/Caffeine.

Does this make sense to anyone? In all honesty, I like Acetaminophen far better than cheap shit Aspirin.

So why is Fioricet NOT a controlled substance while Fiorinal is a schedule 3 controlled substance?

But shit, I'm happy. My primary care doctor doesn't Rx controlled substances.
So I brought up Fioricet, cuz I have lower back pain which causes headaches.

My primary care doctor was SHOCKED at how Fioricet isn't a controlled substance.
Of course I took advantage, and my Doctor wrote a script for Fioricet 50/325/40 3x daily, #90/month with 4 re fills.
I got super excited.

Does Fioricet have recreational value?

NOTE* I'm on Methadone 80mg daily. I also use benzos on and also.
 
It can give you a mild buzz, but you're also going to take a lot of caffeine to take a high enough dose of butalbital.
 
was also surprised to see that it's not scheduled
you could extract it but it would be a fairly involved process as discussed here, but it's probably not worth it
said to not be very recreational
keep it for it's intended purpose I'd say
 
The crazy reason why Fiorinal is scheduled and Fioricet is not is it is the ratio between butalbital and the analgesic and Fiorinal exceeds the But/ASA ratio and Fioricet is below the But/APAP level. This is what they make pharmacy externs do on their clinical rotations.
 
I would post the link, but the paragraph is easer to write. According to www.quora.com , Fiorinal is scheduled because drug abusers can easily perform an "acid wash" to remove the aspirin ( acetylsalicylic acid) component. It is much more difficult to remove the acetaminophen component in the Fioricet. They must not have heard of a CWE. Also, I figured the caffeine would be more difficult to remove, but maybe that maybe part of the acid wash. I must side with SKL on using it correctly. I used to have evil tension headaches. I was prescribed Fioricet for it. 1 tab, every four hours. I went through a script of 90 tablets, every 15 days. I did that for about three months. As far as the 50 Mg of caffeine goes, tolerance builds quickly. At the rate I was taking them, all I felt was the barbiturate. During that time, I was able to stop using 3mg of Clonazepam a day. Long story short, it cures my tension headaches completely. It gave my head time to get straight. I only took as directed.
 
Yea, i was prescribed those about 30 years ago and they worked pretty well for my migraines. However, I needed to take so many for it to do it's job that I eventually ran into problems with my doc. He ended up referring me to a PM doc. I'm not exactly sure what it was in them that caused it but I'd get a bit of a buzz on them.
 
Nice post Kittycat5. That made a whole lot of sense. Beach, after my experience with it, that's the only thing I'll take. One pill stops a major headache dead in its tracks. Also Beach, they also have Fioricet w/ codeine. And Fiorinal w/codeine. I never had those, but I imagine that they kick ass real fast.
 
It's been years, but I remember Fiorinal worked wonders for certain types of migraines. I used to get stress related headaches in college during finals, and Fiorinal worked every time. Unfortunately, the head ache would come back about 6 hours after taking it so I would have to watch the timing of the dose. I haven't heard about this drug in years, I am surprised it's still on the market.
 
Firstly, Fioricet is a pharmaceutical containing a schedule 3 drug, butalbital; so, yes, Fioricet is scheduled, most certainly. Secondly, BE VERY, VERY careful with barbiturates, alone, not to mention your chronic methadone doses of 80 mg/day and your use of benzodiazepines. You have no idea, and I am sorry to sound sanctimonious or hypocritical, but you must be very careful with this drug. Butalbital accumulates, without overt intoxication, causing re-dosing to lead to more CNS depression; also, benzo's + barbs is a huge no, no! They synergize extraordinarily powerfully and can much more easily than any of us might think cause a lethal effect - so easily. And, with methadone, it just gets scarier, frankly, because methadone is known for depressing respiration more than other opioids and the combination of these downers causing potent CNS depression is not safe. My recommendation is not to use them. If you do, try no more one tablet or capsule when you feel well awake and alert, around others that know to look out for you, while you are being productive and/or active and do not feel sedated. Even if you feel nothing or very little, don't dose for another 24 hours, at least. Really, no more than one pill a day (half a pill a day would even be sedating, I would guess); it really does accumulate, so perhaps it will promote a nice daytime calm and nighttime sedation with just one pill a day; I know it sounds over-conservative, but I know these drugs in and out, how the mix, what they can do, etc., but I am worried for you. Honestly, it bears repeating I would not take one, at all.
 
Yupp, the scheduling in the US is totally FUCKED. GHB is schedule 1 but Xyrem(GHB) is schedule 3. Cannabis is schedule 1 but methamphetamine is schedule 2. Everyone who's anyone has long given up on the FDA/DEA.

I've never had a barbiturate in my life but did get some real methaqualone back in the day; I'd imagine it would be somewhat similar. I'd love to get some seconal or something someday, especially for the historical appeal. I've heard the butalbital meds are pretty weak and I'm pretty sure you'd get an uncomfortable amount of caffeine/acetaminophen/aspirin before you got any heavy barb effects. I'm not sure if there's any easy way to isolate the individual components. Be careful!
 
Soulgasm said:
love to get some seconal or something someday, especially for the historical appeal.
Click to expand...

Then you might be old enough to remember the days of "reds" or "blues" or even the ones with both red and blue (tuinals, I think they were). For some reason back then, doctors prescribed a bunch more of this class of meds then they do today. Hell, I don't know if they even make those drugs anymore. I've never heard of anyone getting any of the above mentioned meds. Maybe they went the way of quaaludes; relics.
 
Believe it or not, barbiturates aren't that recreational for most people. I have a script for pentobarbital 50mgs. One of them makes you feel ok. 2 or 3 you suddenly get very tired, feel like jelly all over your body for about 1minute until you make it to the bed or fall asleep wherever you are. Once you go past whatever level it takes to knock you out you're asleep quick. It's like going under for surgery. No negotiating like with benzos!!! And stay safe. No mixing with barbiturates. With pentobarbital you can really feel how dangerous it is. I combined pento with nimetazepam (Erimin) once and the effect was multiplied.....so 4+4 as with alcohol + benzos is not 8, but 16 in terms of effect. Careful dude!
 
Methacodone, let me set this whole issue straight.

First regarding scheduling. What I posted, twice is the answer. Under federal law, Fioricet remains unscheduled despite butalbital itself being scheduled simply by some antiquated ratio that makes no sense. Some states have scheduled it though. There are other examples of this with Librax coming to mind immediately. Librax combines chlordiazepoxide and clidinium for stomach cramps and is unscheduled. Chlordiazepoxide itself is a benzo and a C-IV.

Now the question if you should use it. Fioricet/Fiorinal have far less use these days for three reasons. First, there are drugs far more effective, the triptans, especially for migraines. Second, butalbital/caffeine/analgesic combination products show a very high incidence of what is called medication overuse headache (MOH) Basically the more frequently you use them, the worse your headaches become. Perhaps only opioids are worse offenders at causing this seemingly paradoxical condition. And last, they do contain a barbiturate, which themselves have largely been replaced by other drugs with better safety profiles.

Fioricet is effective though. For patients with contraindications to or inadequate relief from other therapies, it may be a valid option. But you need to limit how much you take. A max of 2 doses in 24 hours no more than 10 days out of a month (I tell my patients 7) is the recommendation. This minimizes the risk for MOH and should prevent you from reaching steady state of butalbital for any significant period of time. You also need to watch your caffeine and OTC pain reliever consumption, as they too can cause MOH and you already would be getting some from the Fioricet. I believe it is recommended to stay below 200mg caffeine daily and dont remember seeing levels for Tylenol, ibuprofen etc.

I do agree with Alex000, your current drugs are problematic. Im pretty sure you take methadone daily and doubt you want to give that up. I dont know about your benzo use, however. If you only took benzos infrequently and werent on methadone, I see no issue with using Fioricet how I described. I probably would only warn to not take it too close to any benzo and watch for some extra sleepiness. Daily methadone is more problematic. You already combine benzos in some capacity with it, which Im sure you are aware can be a pretty significant drug interaction. Youre still with us so I assume this isnt a big issue for you, but adding a barbiturate to your cocktail worries me. Since they get so little use, I am not 100% clear if methadone + barb is as serious as methadone + benzos, but the three together no doubt is worse than any combo of two of them. I would really advise to take the Fioricet only if your headaches are excruciatingly painful. You could just take some Aleve, your benzo, and have a cup of coffee and get probably better results than Fioricet and be safer to boot. It is surprising your doctor gave the Fioricet so easily but since its been around forever, many doctors and pharmacists dont see it as a potentially harmful substance. A lot know it isnt the best option to treat but neglect the safety aspect.
 
It's not a doubt that I don't want to give up Methadone, it's more of me not having a choice of getting off it by tapering or detox very slow to get off.
It's the fear of being in WD that's stopping me from starting to detox.
I've seen my share of a nightmare opiate WD.
Once was from, 2 years of Hydrocodone use, 120mg daily. 3 years of Oxycodone use, 200mg daily. 1 year of Black tar Heroin use, 1g daily. Ended up in the ER for 3 days.
I was on IV fluids, Morphine 30mg every 4 hours, Ativan 2mg every 6 hours, Promethazine 50mg every 4 hours.
My skin was turning yellow and blue at the same time. When I called 911 to send me an ambulance, the peramedics said if you waited 30 more minutes to call us, you couldv'e died from dehydration.
That's how bad my Nausea and vomiting and diarrhea were.

2nd time was a 80mg Methadone WD cold turkey, same situation, went back to the ER.

They were both a living nightmare. I would rather die than to go through that type of WD again.
 
Yeah, I thought so both from reading your posts and experience. WD sucks and for you sounds really dangerous. Im going to check up on the interaction today to be sure.
 
My experience with plain (sans codeine) fiorinal could make it recreational. I have high opiate tolerance. Initially, perhaps 20 years ago subscribed it for Migraine. Back then no more than 6 a day. Presently allowed no more than 2 a day. It stops headache beautifully.
 
Alex000 said:
Firstly, Fioricet is a pharmaceutical containing a schedule 3 drug, butalbital; so, yes, Fioricet is scheduled, most certainly. Secondly, BE VERY, VERY careful with barbiturates, alone, not to mention your chronic methadone doses of 80 mg/day and your use of benzodiazepines. You have no idea, and I am sorry to sound sanctimonious or hypocritical, but you must be very careful with this drug. Butalbital accumulates, without overt intoxication, causing re-dosing to lead to more CNS depression; also, benzo's + barbs is a huge no, no! They synergize extraordinarily powerfully and can much more easily than any of us might think cause a lethal effect - so easily. And, with methadone, it just gets scarier, frankly, because methadone is known for depressing respiration more than other opioids and the combination of these downers causing potent CNS depression is not safe. My recommendation is not to use them. If you do, try no more one tablet or capsule when you feel well awake and alert, around others that know to look out for you, while you are being productive and/or active and do not feel sedated. Even if you feel nothing or very little, don't dose for another 24 hours, at least. Really, no more than one pill a day (half a pill a day would even be sedating, I would guess); it really does accumulate, so perhaps it will promote a nice daytime calm and nighttime sedation with just one pill a day; I know it sounds over-conservative, but I know these drugs in and out, how the mix, what they can do, etc., but I am worried for you. Honestly, it bears repeating I would not take one, at all.
Click to expand...

Fioricet is not a controlled substance.

Soulgasm said:
Yupp, the scheduling in the US is totally FUCKED. GHB is schedule 1 but Xyrem(GHB) is schedule 3. Cannabis is schedule 1 but methamphetamine is schedule 2. Everyone who's anyone has long given up on the FDA/DEA.

I've never had a barbiturate in my life but did get some real methaqualone back in the day; I'd imagine it would be somewhat similar. I'd love to get some seconal or something someday, especially for the historical appeal. I've heard the butalbital meds are pretty weak and I'm pretty sure you'd get an uncomfortable amount of caffeine/acetaminophen/aspirin before you got any heavy barb effects. I'm not sure if there's any easy way to isolate the individual components. Be careful!
Click to expand...

methamphetamine is schedule II because it has accepted medical use and is a prescription medicine called Desoxyn. Cannabis is not recognized by the federal government as being a prescription medicine, hence schedule I.
 
But scheduling is totally arbitrary. The DEA has gone against what their doctors, scientists, hell even lawyers have recommended. I am not even a strong proponent of medical marijuana but to say it has no recognized medical use is foolish.
 
I agree with you on that. The DEA is full of bullshit nowadays. All of the stuff they're scheduling currently - pretty much everything. Like Vimpat, which has no abuse potential. Or putting Belviq in schedule IV with benzodiazepines. It's just ridiculous. And your're right. They even defied their court rulings about MDMA who ruled it be schedule III and it couldn't be placed into schedule I, but they did it anyway.
 
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