Stimulants Avoiding Mind-Altering Effects

[Diabetic Person]

Here is my situation:
I have always been "afraid" to take Vyvanse and Adderall because of being told that there is a chance that it will effect my mind.

Obviously it does, but if you stopped after the first day, your body would go back to normal with no change done.

Being a Student, I finally got the courage to try these medications. Currently on 60mg Vyvanse for 7am-5pm, and 20mg Adderall from 5pm-11pm, I am always doing school work now with no side-effects so far in the 3 months I have taken it.

My fear is that I really can't think without taking these medications. My thoughts our cloudy, and I have no motivation to work. I want to avoid the major mind altering effects that could be caused after taking this medicine for a while.

UNFORTUNATELY-

I Need the medicine to think better - to read my books - etc. So I find myself only being able to give myself a one day break, if that.

SO:
Being in an extremely healthy lifestyle, is this enough to prevent the PERMANENT side effects?

I tried to bold, underline, italics the important information. If any of my thoughts on these medications are wrong, update me - Give me some information.

Everyone's opinion/response is apprecated.

Thanks,
DP.

 

[BIGsherm7272]

Depends on how long you take it, just being healthy doesn't mean that your body processes the drug any differently. But you are much safer if taking it as prescribed and not abusing it.

 

[marijuana-kid]

well i dont think there are ways you can stop the effects all together , but im sure there are ways you can help alot . . .

1) Take L-tyrosine , or tyrosine rich foods (like meats and dairy products) and 5-htp (as adderall and add meds do affect serotonin slightly
2) Cod liver oil (its meant to build dopamine in higher doses daily)
3) Try notropics like piracetam as they can maybe help you with that cloudy mind feeling you get (check the healthy eating section of this forum to learn more )
4) Vitamins - get plenty of these . Especially iron , vitamin c , and vitamin b
5) Sleep - Dude this is an important one , especially on amps . Sleep is very important especially after amps as they can wear out your body , especially if your using them everyday . Sleep can help you recuperate
6) Excersise - This has been proven to take away that fog/cloud in your mind , and its also said to help concentration and motivation . It also helps build dopamine which is the chemical that alot of add meds like adderall affect .
7) Maybe take a week break if you can
8) Drink green tea - this is an antioxidant which can help reduce your tolerance to amps and make you feel better in general

I know how you feel bud , and if you do what i said , im sure you will see a slight improvement within 14 days

 

[morphonorconic]

You must ask yourself "Do the benefits outweight the risks/potential adverse effects?"

Having just started back to school myself, I know Amphetamine would be of major assistance to my often wandering mind, and though I've definitely considered it, I simply do not wish to take these drugs on a regular basis. For me, the temptation to abuse the drug would be too great, and perhaps more importantly, I don't want to get used to that mental clarity and motivation, because how could I, or anyone go back to not using the drug after (school)?

The horror stories of Amp psychosis and general mental fuck are terrifying to me.

 

[b4rd]

My recommendation is to just stop taking the junk all together. The effects from these amphetamines will only effect your sober state the more you use them.

 

[bighooter]

amps are a dirty drug, nice once in a while if you can handle the comedown that is.

 

[Diabetic Person]

you are much safer if taking it as prescribed and not abusing it.

I don't abuse the drug - I always take it as it has been prescribed to me.

there are ways you can help alot . . .

I appreciate you listing off some things that can help. Will look-into all those, thanks =-).

You must ask yourself "Do the benefits outweight the risks/potential adverse effects?"

The horror stories of Amp psychosis and general mental fuck are terrifying to me.

In my case, half-way through the 1st semester last year I was failing 3 classes, C's and B's in the rest. That is when I finally decided that everything is worth a try, and to try medication and see if it's just me or if it's preventable (Despite me being horrified from medication).

After I started taking Vyvanse and Adderall, I ended up failing no classes, but also had several A's and B's - with only 1 C.

This semester of school thus far: I have Straight A's, and one B. I even have a 107% in an AP English Class (With a teacher that's known for being hard...It's not an easy class.)

I used to be able to study on hours on end, but ever since I hit 9th grade, it all dropped. Taking these medications (Starting taking them in 12th Grade) makes me feel like I can FINALLY study like I had. I spend all day at school, then 5pm-10pm on homework, giving me a 1 hour break in between.

I love studying - I just find it extremely hard to get anything done when I am not on them. It feels like how I was before I started taking them (When it wears off).

I am also horrified of the permanent effects if being under this constant medication. Does anyone know/have more information on this?

My recommendation is to just stop taking the junk all together. The effects from these amphetamines will only effect your sober state the more you use them.

I agree with its effect. If I could study half as well as I do when on these medications, I would stop.

I couldn't memorize 1 Vocabulary word in 30 minutes before I went to the doctor to get medicine.

Now, I memorize like I used to: about 1 Vocab word a minute. HUGE difference.
It's hard for me to remove something from my life that has that much of an impact on my studies...

amps are a dirty drug, nice once in a while if you can handle the comedown that is.

I've had no side-effects. Little irritable when I feel either Vyvanse or Adderall wearing off - never too bad though.

I took a 3 week break from these medicines during Christmas Break, didn't feel like I had to rely on them. Only when I came back to school did I have to focus extremely hard, though, and soon started taking them again.

Any more suggestions/opinions/responses are welcome.
Again, what I thought was important to other viewers/responders are in bold, italics, and are underlined.

The things that aren't can still be just as important, though.

Thanks,
DP

 

[ALICE_D418]

yeah I know first hand adderall and other drugs like it change you brains way of producing dopamine so after taking it for a little while you just don't have energy, motivation, or drive so be careful man

 

[Sociable]

I understand exactly how you feel except I rarely took a dosage higher than the prescription. I never became "addicted" though and stopped probably 6 months ago.

There was also a mathematician who felt that when he on amphetamines that the world was losing progress. He also quit for a month to prove he wasn't addicted

WARNING: It looks to me like you were amping when you wrote that whole thing so I know everything you read is of great significance and could scare you if said the wrong way (I can tell you're very rightly concerned)

Anyway, without being an expert and having a Doctor for a mother I'd say besides the dopamine you're just wearing your body out man. Think of how elevated your heart rate gets and how long it stays there. Of course if you're in good shape this is less of a problem (I.E. My heart rate is about 60 usually on about 30-50mg of addy so maybe thats no a big concern.

But I've heard mentions of neurotoxins, etc. There is no real evidence (That I've read and believe) of what long term effects are currently but... too much of anything is bad for you.

 

[crazynate:]]

I'm prescribed to 20mgs and for I've been taking em regularly but about a month ago I went crazy on em and it got to where I'd get a madd headache if I didnt take em and I'd be in a real crummy mood... I stopped taking em and am slowly starting to take regular doses again

 

[morphonorconic]

In my case, half-way through the 1st semester last year I was failing 3 classes, C's and B's in the rest. That is when I finally decided that everything is worth a try, and to try medication and see if it's just me or if it's preventable (Despite me being horrified from medication).

After I started taking Vyvanse and Adderall, I ended up failing no classes, but also had several A's and B's - with only 1 C.

This semester of school thus far: I have Straight A's, and one B. I even have a 107% in an AP English Class (With a teacher that's known for being hard...It's not an easy class.)

I used to be able to study on hours on end, but ever since I hit 9th grade, it all dropped. Taking these medications (Starting taking them in 12th Grade) makes me feel like I can FINALLY study like I had. I spend all day at school, then 5pm-10pm on homework, giving me a 1 hour break in between.

I love studying - I just find it extremely hard to get anything done when I am not on them. It feels like how I was before I started taking them (When it wears off).

I am also horrified of the permanent effects if being under this constant medication. Does anyone know/have more information on this?


DP

I completely understand. When I take Adderall, or whatever Amphetamine, I become extremely task oriented, and I get 10x as much stuff done as I would without the drug. It's really quite amazing. I have to go to class shortly, and I feel scatterbrained as hell; wish I had just 5mg!

There truly are some huge benefits to this class of drugs, especially when used correctly, and under the right circumstances. I really feel your predicament. I was put on Adderall when I was in seventh grade. I hated not having any appetite and not being able to sleep, which led to me pleading with my parents to discontinue use. Despite those side effects while on the medication, I had never found school and class topics to be so interesting, and I have never been able to attain that level of motivation ever since then, which was back in '97.

 

[Diabetic Person]

after taking it for a little while you just don't have energy, motivation, or drive so be careful man

I didn't have any of that BEFORE I started taking it. I couldn't stay awake (Experimented with all hours of sleep, nothing help), I never did homework, and I couldn't get interested or motivated to do ANYTHING. My homework average last semester was 20% (No Medication). This Semester = 100%.

When I am off my medication, I can't tell a difference from how I am now and how I was before I was even introduced to the meds. Then again, I've been on them for probably closing in on 4 months now.

WARNING: It looks to me like you were amping when you wrote that whole thing so I know everything you read is of great significance and could scare you if said the wrong way (I can tell you're very rightly concerned)

too much of anything is bad for you.

I was on my Adderall when I had the first and second post of mine, but right now during this post I am not and I still equally concerned. I really am afraid of the negative permanent side-effects that may occur from taking these meds-
BUT
Unfortunately, I wasn't getting anything done without them. (Sounds worse than I mean it. Basically, I can, just takes MUCH longer and is MUCH harder. As I said previously, I could only memorize 1 vocab card in 30 minutes compared to 30 Vocab Cards in 30 minutes now)

I agree with your 'too much of anything is bad' - being able to apply that in any part of life, really. I do try to stick away from this medicine when possible. ALWAYS taking it as it was prescribed. I'm not doing anything funky with it.

I'm prescribed to 20mgs and for I've been taking em regularly but about a month ago I went crazy on em and it got to where I'd get a madd headache if I didnt take em and I'd be in a real crummy mood... I stopped taking em and am slowly starting to take regular doses again

I can see how taking a lot of it could mess someone up...I'm trying to keep my dosage down.

Forgot to mention, the doctor said one reason I had a higher dose than others is because of my build/body weight. For those who are interested in comparing their dosage to mine through bodyweight, etc, I weigh 205lbs with 18% Body Fat. I'm a weightlifter, so a lot of weight comes from muscle (I squat 385lbs, Bench 225, Power Clean 225, etc).

When I take Adderall, or whatever Amphetamine, I become extremely task oriented, and I get 10x as much stuff done as I would without the drug. It's really quite amazing.

There truly are some huge benefits to this class of drugs, especially when used correctly, and under the right circumstances. I really feel your predicament. I was put on Adderall when I was in seventh grade. I hated not having any appetite and not being able to sleep, which led to me pleading with my parents to discontinue use. Despite those side effects while on the medication, I had never found school and class topics to be so interesting, and I have never been able to attain that level of motivation ever since then, which was back in '97.

I'm the same way on it, and agree with its "amazing" power - so to speak. Fortunately for me, I haven't experienced ANY side effects yet. Little irritated than normal coming off, but I'm generally a pretty happy guy. I am always hungry (On or off the meds haha ;-)), and I sleep instantly when I lay down for the night.

How long did your side effects take to come? Was it as soon as your started?


As before, Thanks for responses/comments/opinions!

Important information will be bolded, underlined, italics, etc. In quotes, this is usually what I am responding to below it. Doesn't mean non-changed text is less important, I just shorten it for those who have a hard time following.

Thanks again!
DP

 

[morphonorconic]

The side effects pretty much began immediately, or within the first week of use. It's funny and interesting to me that when I was 13 and put on Adderall, I had no concept of pharmacology or what Amphetamines were. I guess I knew what speed was from drug education, but had no idea that the new drug I had been prescribed was, in essence speed. I recall feeling sort of "good," and definitely motivated those first few days of taking the drug, but after that, all perceived side effects were negative.

These days when I take Adderall, I feel great, perhaps due to my understanding of the drug itself, or due simply to the expectation of euphoria. I find, however, that if I take Amps more than one or two days in a row, the euphoria rapidly diminishes and the adverse effects become much more prominent.

 

[Diabetic Person]

The side effects pretty much began immediately, or within the first week of use.

These days when I take Adderall, I feel great, perhaps due to my understanding of the drug itself, or due simply to the expectation of euphoria. I find, however, that if I take Amps more than one or two days in a row, the euphoria rapidly diminishes and the adverse effects become much more prominent.

Do you think that body weight influences the drug's strength in the side-effects?
If you don't mind me asking, what weight would you classify yourself under?

As I said, I haven't felt any negative side effects. I sleep fine, eat fine, and everything. Also said before, the only thing negative is that I can get angered a little easier, and I do mean a little.

I know that the drugs effect your mind and should be unrelated towards body size, etc, but the drug is also digested for this to occur, right? Would extra fat prevent the drug to a degree? Would someone skinnier feel it faster/harder?

______________________________________________________________
These are my questions. Again, if anyone knows anything about permanent side effects, please lay down a comment too ;-)

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Again, if anyone knows anything about permanent side effects, please lay down a comment too ;-)

Avoid becoming psychologically dependent on it like people get on crack. I have seen what that produces in people. It's not pretty.

Take it only when necessary, try to keep your dose low. Don't start taking it multiple times in a day unless you absolutely have to (and even then, don't consume more than what you're prescribed, i.e. don't go over 60 to 90mg in a day at the very most).

 

[DopaMan]

I wish I was still taking ADD meds for school. They are definitely cheating and give you a major edge even those for those who legitimately have ADD.

 

[DrunkardsDream]

I was on Adderall for a few years and I always took it orally and I never took more than 15mg at once and I always made sure to try to force myself to eat on it and stay hydrated.

I never took XR just the regular type. I would get headaches but I'm sure that could have been from dehydration.

 

[k20]

I've been abusing dexamps and dex/methylphenidate (mostly dexamp) on and off for about a year now. When I do use them I go through about 40-100~ mg every day for a week and then stop for a month or so. Now I'm starting to experience the adverse effects. I crash so much harder even when I don't take a high dose and for a month after my last binge, I was extremely depressed (it was never that bad before; did about 90mg for a month at that time). Since then I haven't been able to do any of my work or go to any of my classes, just absolutely no motivation at all. I've been off stims for about 3 months and started taking it again at the beginning of this week. I plan on quitting them after today (I have 40mg methylphenidate left), but I'm worried about the permanent effects on my body, motivation, energy and drive. Will I be able to return to my old state with time?

I'm not prescribed nor diagnosed with add.

 

[Lupus]

I've been taking dexedrine for years. I wont lie and say its always been clear sailing because i've brought myself to the edge of complete batshit psychosis on at least two occaisions. But every time i have done so its been as a result of absolutely ignoring common sense and letting mania take over. Hypomania induced from the amphetamine tends to be what leads to poor judgement and repeatedly redosing, at a certain point you just have to accept that you're not thinking straight.

The best rule is to never ever stay awake more than 24 hours at a time, i dont care if your brain is screaming "JUST ONE MORE PILL", you need to just tell it to shut the hell up and deal with the come down.

The second rule is to remember to eat, lack of food and sleep are the two most important contributing problems which lead to psychosis. Drinking water is of course also important.

Taking a chelated magnesium supplement (i use magnesium glycinate) will also help greatly in staving off the crazyness and slowing down your tolerance. Keep in mind that the shitty magnesium in multivitamins is near useless, you cant take magnesium oxide.

The shadow people arent real and definetly arent federal agents or the lizard men illuminati so keep your firearms locked away so you dont hurt yourself.


edit: as far physical side effects, unless you have pre-existing heart condition this isnt a worry. You have to keep in mind that dexedrine was the most prescribed drug of all time at one period in the US and was still available over the counter in some places until the 70s. If it were cardiotoxic we would certainly know about it because it was used for everything psychiatric related during the 50s to mid 60s in much higher doses than what is currently used.

 

[NoCatharsis]

I find this thread interesting because it's one of the primary reasons I came here for answers. Let me give you a rundown of my situation, as I think I am in an advanced stage of where the OP is currently.

I was prescribed 30mg Adderall XR three years ago when I was 24. I had graduated college a year before, and in the last couple years of college I took Adderall illegally for long study sessions (engineering courses tend to do that to you). I knew how much it helped in college, so I went to a doc once I was in the working world and he put me on the Add officially.

At first I would only take the drug as needed for work (mostly during long meetings or single-focus tasks). The major difference between work and school is that work never ends, and you can always work longer, if not harder. So increasingly over the past 3 years, I have self-medicated at strenuous times, sometimes taking 2-3 times my prescribed dosage. I have also had my doctor increase my dosage, but at what point do you stop increasing?

I've gotten to the point now that I feel I can't get anything done if I don't take a pill first. That part pretty much sucks. I don't always take Adderall on the weekends, because when I don't feel pressure to be productive, I really don't feel the necessity for the drug. Unfortunately, the working world demands constant productivity for the majority of the week.

By taking Adderall daily, the side effects have certainly dissipated, as my doctor intended. She even told me not to take drug holidays because this could increase comedown effects. But when I take them everyday, obviously my tolerance skyrockets and the benefits are severely compromised in the process.

I feel like I'm spiraling into a potential psychological addiction, if I'm not already there. I don't feel totally addicted, though, because I can take weekends off and feel perfectly fine. Of course, I'll probably just watch TV or play computer for hours with no productivity, but that's what normal people do on weekends.

I don't want to relieve myself of accountability here, but my job and my desire to succeed have definitely influenced my decision to increase dosages and occasionally abuse during particularly pressing times. It's almost a catch-22 in that my career success could become my psychological failure.

Anyway, I had particular curiosity about this post near the top of the thread:

well i dont think there are ways you can stop the effects all together , but im sure there are ways you can help alot . . .

1) Take L-tyrosine , or tyrosine rich foods (like meats and dairy products) and 5-htp (as adderall and add meds do affect serotonin slightly
2) Cod liver oil (its meant to build dopamine in higher doses daily)
3) Try notropics like piracetam as they can maybe help you with that cloudy mind feeling you get (check the healthy eating section of this forum to learn more )
4) Vitamins - get plenty of these . Especially iron , vitamin c , and vitamin b
5) Sleep - Dude this is an important one , especially on amps . Sleep is very important especially after amps as they can wear out your body , especially if your using them everyday . Sleep can help you recuperate
6) Excersise - This has been proven to take away that fog/cloud in your mind , and its also said to help concentration and motivation . It also helps build dopamine which is the chemical that alot of add meds like adderall affect .
7) Maybe take a week break if you can
Drink green tea - this is an antioxidant which can help reduce your tolerance to amps and make you feel better in general

I know how you feel bud , and if you do what i said , im sure you will see a slight improvement within 14 days

I would just like to verify that these are all legitimate ways to help reduce my dependence on the drugs. Obviously sleep and exercise are good, but I know almost nothing about the different supplements and vitamins. As an engineer, I can't just accept medical suggestions at face value - I want a little more proof that these are valid treatments.

Can anyone explain in a little more detail how/where I obtain some of the items listed? Are there any other things I should do to help treat my ADHD diagnosis without the use of drugs?

One suggestion I had briefly heard from a doctor was bioacoustics. Apparently this may help ADHD symptoms, but there is not strong medical evidence just yet.

I hope this complements the original post and helps to answer further questions. Thank you.