Australians on methadone, anyone noticed recent changes?

[JessFR]

Hey guys. OK so twice very recently the pharmacy I get my methadone from has experience a change in the methadone formulation. I haven't been able to find out anything about it so I thought I'd ask if anyone else here has experienced the same phenomenon.

Now, normally in Australia there are two methadone syrup formulations for opioid substitution. Ones called biodone, and has historically been a yellow/reddish color with an indiscribable taste. This is in my experience the most common formulation. The other is just called aspen methadone syrup, and has a purple color, and simply tastes bitter. (EDIT: It's possible I have those descriptions backwards, I don't really remember)

My current pharmacy has, like most, always used biodone. And to my knowledge that hasn't changed. But twice now they've seemed to get two different reformulated methadone syrups with two different tastes and colors. I haven't experienced any real difference in effect, they all have seemed to function fine, I'm just curious what might be going on and if anyone else has noticed anything unusual lately.

Of the two new methadone syrups I've been given, one had a similar, but still noticeably different color. Maybe a slightly more vibrant yellow/red color, and a different, maybe slightly more orangey taste. The other was a fair bit more translucent but with a greenish color, and tasted like it had the least artificial flavoring of the three. Closer to the unflavored purple colored aspen methadone. But still a noticeable artificial taste to it aside from the regular bitter taste of methadone.

So yeah, it hasn't really mattered so far. I'm just wondering if anyone has an idea what's going on or have experienced anything similar. I have a pharmacist family member I can ask but I haven't had a chance yet.

It didn't seem that unusual to me that after many years they might have tweaked the flavor, it's always been terrible. But it seems very unusual that it's changed twice over such a short time frame.

 

[zopizone]

I'm on subs not done so can't speak personally, but a guy I spoke to at my local said he felt it tasted different.... i don't know him very well so i didn't really have a big discussion on it, but yeah, theirs some random small shred of hearsay laden circumstantial evidence to support its happened!

 

[JessFR]

I asked the pharmacist today. She confirmed that they got a letter saying there'd be a reformulation in June. But no explanation for why I'd have experienced three different formulations.

Doesn't really matter I supposed. I've found them all to work as well as each other. I was just curious.

Thanks for the reply zopizone. If anyone else has enough thoughts or observations I'd love to hear them.

 

[garym]

am from uk and we get green meth here. never heard of it being the colours you stated - am not saying you're wrong, hell, you know what you're taking - but as to the stated taste being different, i've noticed a couple of times that taste of meth can vary slighty. there are odd occaisions when i've had my 65ml at 1mg per ml, that it hasn't felt like i've had my daily amount even though i have indeed taken it. this worries me on a few different levels, i'm naturally paranoid, so on the odd occaision that i have had my meth and felt like it hasn't worked makes me totally spin out and think "are the pharmacy fucking me about ?" but that doesnt seem like it is the case, more likely that, because i use on top, that i may be withdrawing off the gear and that's why i feel like i havnt had that days dose when in actuality i have. what do ya reckon ? is it just that i'm rattling for the gear or is it likely that on odd occasion that particular days formulated meth is as strong ?

 

[JessFR]

am from uk and we get green meth here. never heard of it being the colours you stated - am not saying you're wrong, hell, you know what you're taking - but as to the stated taste being different, i've noticed a couple of times that taste of meth can vary slighty. there are odd occaisions when i've had my 65ml at 1mg per ml, that it hasn't felt like i've had my daily amount even though i have indeed taken it. this worries me on a few different levels, i'm naturally paranoid, so on the odd occaision that i have had my meth and felt like it hasn't worked makes me totally spin out and think "are the pharmacy fucking me about ?" but that doesnt seem like it is the case, more likely that, because i use on top, that i may be withdrawing off the gear and that's why i feel like i havnt had that days dose when in actuality i have. what do ya reckon ? is it just that i'm rattling for the gear or is it likely that on odd occasion that particular days formulated meth is as strong ?

I'm pretty sure both of the methadone brands here are made in Australia. They aren't likely found anywhere else.
Also, our methadone all comes as 5mg per ml, not 1mg per ml.

I can absolutely understand and relate to your paranoia. I think nearly all opioid addicts have this experience to at least some degree. Not just because of the drugs but more because of the lifestyle that comes with it. In my experience the lifestyle always brings about a level of paranoia.

But honestly I doubt your pharmacy is screwing you. It's not impossible but in my experience what you describe is not uncommon at all. I don't have a comprehensive explanation of what the cause is, but I doubt very much it's your pharmacy ripping you off or something. Ive found that simply worrying about getting sick can actually make you begin to feel sick. There's a huge mental component to it.

 

[garym]

yeah, i understand the psychosymatic ( my spelling aint great but ya know what i mean ) element of addiction. i experience it regularly. we do get a higher mg per ml ratio of meth, 10mg per ml, but the prescribers are loath to want to put many people on it due to i guess o.d. it tends to be more blueish in colour, i've seen it before, but wouldn't want to take it. i remember a fad between addicts here a decade or so ago of people i.v.ing said 10mg per ml, crazy !! anyway, i appreciate your reply, it's interesting to hear how other countries handle the problem of addiction.

 

[JessFR]

People IV methadone here too. Some pharmacies specifically dilute methadone takeaways with water specifically to prevent it. And to reduce its black market value.

 

[garym]

do people not complain that their "juice" is diluted with water ? because you can tell when methadone has been diluted. also that's what i have a fear of sometimes happening here with methadone i'm given, that it gets diluted.

 

[JessFR]

do people not complain that their "juice" is diluted with water ? because you can tell when methadone has been diluted. also that's what i have a fear of sometimes happening here with methadone i'm given, that it gets diluted.

Eh. You can complain, but what are you gonna do? Not take it?

Just to be clear. When I say diluted I just mean they add water to whatever you've been prescribed. You're obviously still supposed to get the amount you're prescribed. They just add water to prevent abuse by taking say, 50mg in 10ml, and diluting it to 50mg in a hundred ml or so and giving you that.

Not that I'm defending the policy. But I don't see that complaining to the pharmacists is gonna help anything. And as for clinics, in my experience a lot of clinics don't give takeaways at all.

I suspect if you really complained, worst case scenario they'd probably offer the compromise that you can get undiluted methadone, but no takeaways.

This seems to be regional though. I've seen undiluted takeaways in other parts of the country. Just not where I currently live.

And it does work. People absolutely do IV methadone which doing this makes very difficult. And people do frequently sell takeaways, which is way way easier to do undiluted. So I can certainly understand why they have this policy. But I won't deny I've at times found myself feeling suspicious about it. And personally I'd prefer they didn't.

Like I said, junkie paranoia. I've got zero legit reason to think I've ever been ripped off by a legal methadone provider.

 

[garym]

i guess you're right about being able to rely on what a licensed pharmacy gives as methadone. i've never bought it off the street, never needed to as i could ask for an increase in ml when/if i wanted to. i obvs have an addiction to methadone now as i was first prescribed methadone in 2004 and havn't been off it since in 15 years ! it doesn't give me what i want though (it never really will as it's not the same as heroin) so i use on top. trials of giving users diamorphine have begun here in a city called middlesborough that is up north from where i am and i'm hopefull that it'll get rolled out as standard practice instead of handing people a mantainence methadone script. i realise this has been going on in other area's of the uk and other countries for years, but it hasn't become s.o.p for addiction clinics, due to the cost of said scheme. i also know that taking diamorphine is a double edged sword, the withdrawal from it is, i've been told, horrific, so i wonder how i would cope if it were to become s.o.p

 

[JessFR]

Diamorphine is just heroin. The withdrawal should be identical to heroin.

 

[garym]

we both know what you buy as "heroin" on the street is piss poor especially compared to pharmaceutical grade diamorphine, that's why i've heard the withdrawal from diamorphine that the clinic will give user's is supposed to be bad.

 

[JessFR]

we both know what you buy as "heroin" on the street is piss poor especially compared to pharmaceutical grade diamorphine, that's why i've heard the withdrawal from diamorphine that the clinic will give user's is supposed to be bad.

It varies a lot from region to region. Not to mention the variability within the same region. I'm pretty certain the heroin we get here in Australia would be quite different to to the UK. It's my understanding that UK heroin is usually base heroin. Heroin here is all water soluble. Usually rocks with a white, or light brown color. And usually fairly potent (though still not 100% pure). And thank God not full of fent like the US.

But, if what you are getting is actually heroin. As in, diacetylmorphine. Then, even if it's cut (provided the cut is inert), it should still be the same withdrawal. Being cut just means you need to use more by weight that you would if it were pure. Your body is still dependent on the same chemical. Doesn't seem like it should be any different.

All that said though, I'm reluctant to say there absolutely can't be any difference. Much as it doesn't make sense to me, it wouldn't be the first time where for whatever reason, what makes sense hasn't matched with experience.

So I'm not saying your experience and that of others you've heard is wrong. Just that it doesn't make sense.

 

[mostly-human]

Not your original point - as I got off start of Jan. But regarding the dilution, most good pharmacies will offer it undiluted for the doses you take at the counter if you ask for it (I specifically did due to stomach issues and it was more convenient to not drink as much).