Ashwagandha

[nonames99]

Is ashwagandha safe? Does it really help with anxiety? Is it addictive? Does it fuck up your brain like benzos? Should it be taken long term to give effects or it has immediate effect?
Thanks on advance to whoever responds.

 

[Nas47]

@Quasimoto knows better....it's not addictive and doesn't fuck up like benzos...a herb...indian herb with multiple purposes....tha\s what i know

 

[pnillyg]

I’m curious to see the responses as i have been takin git for about 10 days with my morning kratom and have felt much calmer. Could be placebo but not sure. I believe its an adaptogen so it takes a while to begin working after daily use but i just seen that in a video

 

[Quasimoto]

Ashwaganda is a weird one. At first it gave me anxiety and dysphoria, but after about a week of dosing it does start producing a fairly nice anxiolytic and sedative effect. I never found it useful for sleep, because it also gave me insomnia during the sedative effect. I enjoyed taking it during the day, great for work, reduces stress a lot.

However, taking it long term is a bad idea and it caused some serious issues for me. It's also mildly addictive and it does produce a physical dependence. The withdrawal is similar to SSRI withdrawal + mild benzo withdrawal. It interacts negatively with a whole bunch of other drugs as well.

 

[Keif' Richards]

With every single supplement, there are some things you need to consider.

The Supplement industry is notoriously unregulated in the United States. I cannot speak for Canada or Europe. Once you have done your research and decided that you want to give a supplement a try, you have to make sure you buy from a quality source. For instance, GNC, a large supplement retailer in the United States has been busted twice in recent memory, with auditors finding many of their supplements contain little or no active ingredient.

The world of "supplements" is really like the wild west even when you have a product that is certifiable. You have so many choices out there. You have so many different points of information telling you this, telling you that, do this, I can't believe you do that, this is how you do it! Basically, it's a lot of conjecture.

If you decide to try a supplement, give it an actual try. It depends on what you're taking. A rule of thumb should be to take something for at least 2 weeks and ideally at least a month before making judgements of any kind. Most people are not interested in this sort of thing. In addition to their daily life, they now need to keep a mental journal of perhaps a half-dozen different supplements in their bodies. They need to watch for the minute effects of herbs that are often vastly more mild than "drugs". They need to also pay attention to how each supplement might be affecting the next.

It is really a pretty big investment of time and mental energy to do this properly.

Ashwaghanda is an herb historically used in South Asian Folk Medicine. This system as a whole is often referred to as "Vedic Medicine". Veda is the Sanskrit word for "knowledge". The educated class devised and recorded manuals for mental, physical and spiritual guidance. This period ~1500 years ago is thus known as the Vedic Period. Yoga is another such practice that was characterized and elaborated upon during the vedic period.

With that being said, Ashwaghanda is touted as an "adaptogen".

An "adaptogen" is apparently a substance that helps the body to "adapt to stress". Forgive me, maybe I'm going to sound like a dick, but that seems like the most ambiguous statement ever. It's a statement that could mean literally anything. A person could adapt both positively and negatively to stress so... you get where I'm going.

Most people say Ashwaghanda acts as a mild anxiolytic among other more ambiguous terms that I have read. People say it is helpful for physical and mental tension. They say it helps with sleep also.

I've experimented with Vedic Medicine. I've tried Ashwaghanda. I've also tried other similar stuff like Rhodiola Rosea. I tried each for a reasonable amount of time. I would be lying if I said they made a difference for me. I feel like even a modest benefit in anxiety symptoms would be worth the ~$30/month required for a quality supplement. So, this stuff wasn't even worth 30 a month.

I don't feel like these kind of supplements exist in the same space as pharmaceuticals like Benzodiazepines. There is no herb that I can truly say could imitate a Benzodiazepine. Kava is really nice sure, but that's kind of an outlier in all of this. Side note: I'd recommend trying Kava if you haven't. It's one of the few herbal supplements I have tried that didn't utterly disappoint me.

These supplements, if they work are not meant to "fix" people. The system of Vedic Medicine is more of a comprehensive guide for living your best and most healthy life. It is antithetical to this philosophy for a person to walk in from the street, pick and choose what they want etc.

I think these herbs are meant to be taken over long periods of time, in conjuction with a good diet and physical activity. It's a very "modern" take on things to pick a symptom and then attempt to annihlate that symptom with a specific drug as if this is a solution. I think their philosophy is getting at the fact that it's more rational to treat the cause of a problem than to treat the symptom.

I know I've written a lot here and rambled a bit. I just think that the "Modern American" approach to medicine, especially pharmacy is like a completely different system and philosophy. It is hard for an American to understand the idea of a comprehensive system for their health.

Most Americans are gonna say they want freedom from anxiety, a shot in the stomach to make them not obese, a Honduran man-servant to stretch them while they watch Youtube etc. The idea of looking at one's self from the top down is not something most of us are willing to do.

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that a person coming here looking for an "anxiolytic" in the Vedic knowledge is probably not going to find what they are actually looking for. I believe they can be beneficial, but they're not ever going to be the on-demand, anxiety on/off switch that we alll know from the world of pharmacy.

 

[nonames99]

With every single supplement, there are some things you need to consider.

The Supplement industry is notoriously unregulated in the United States. I cannot speak for Canada or Europe. Once you have done your research and decided that you want to give a supplement a try, you have to make sure you buy from a quality source. For instance, GNC, a large supplement retailer in the United States has been busted twice in recent memory, with auditors finding many of their supplements contain little or no active ingredient.

The world of "supplements" is really like the wild west even when you have a product that is certifiable. You have so many choices out there. You have so many different points of information telling you this, telling you that, do this, I can't believe you do that, this is how you do it! Basically, it's a lot of conjecture.

If you decide to try a supplement, give it an actual try. It depends on what you're taking. A rule of thumb should be to take something for at least 2 weeks and ideally at least a month before making judgements of any kind. Most people are not interested in this sort of thing. In addition to their daily life, they now need to keep a mental journal of perhaps a half-dozen different supplements in their bodies. They need to watch for the minute effects of herbs that are often vastly more mild than "drugs". They need to also pay attention to how each supplement might be affecting the next.

It is really a pretty big investment of time and mental energy to do this properly.

Ashwaghanda is an herb historically used in South Asian Folk Medicine. This system as a whole is often referred to as "Vedic Medicine". Veda is the Sanskrit word for "knowledge". The educated class devised and recorded manuals for mental, physical and spiritual guidance. This period ~1500 years ago is thus known as the Vedic Period. Yoga is another such practice that was characterized and elaborated upon during the vedic period.

With that being said, Ashwaghanda is touted as an "adaptogen".

An "adaptogen" is apparently a substance that helps the body to "adapt to stress". Forgive me, maybe I'm going to sound like a dick, but that seems like the most ambiguous statement ever. It's a statement that could mean literally anything. A person could adapt both positively and negatively to stress so... you get where I'm going.

Most people say Ashwaghanda acts as a mild anxiolytic among other more ambiguous terms that I have read. People say it is helpful for physical and mental tension. They say it helps with sleep also.

I've experimented with Vedic Medicine. I've tried Ashwaghanda. I've also tried other similar stuff like Rhodiola Rosea. I tried each for a reasonable amount of time. I would be lying if I said they made a difference for me. I feel like even a modest benefit in anxiety symptoms would be worth the ~$30/month required for a quality supplement. So, this stuff wasn't even worth 30 a month.

I don't feel like these kind of supplements exist in the same space as pharmaceuticals like Benzodiazepines. There is no herb that I can truly say could imitate a Benzodiazepine. Kava is really nice sure, but that's kind of an outlier in all of this. Side note: I'd recommend trying Kava if you haven't. It's one of the few herbal supplements I have tried that didn't utterly disappoint me.

These supplements, if they work are not meant to "fix" people. The system of Vedic Medicine is more of a comprehensive guide for living your best and most healthy life. It is antithetical to this philosophy for a person to walk in from the street, pick and choose what they want etc.

I think these herbs are meant to be taken over long periods of time, in conjuction with a good diet and physical activity. It's a very "modern" take on things to pick a symptom and then attempt to annihlate that symptom with a specific drug as if this is a solution. I think their philosophy is getting at the fact that it's more rational to treat the cause of a problem than to treat the symptom.

I know I've written a lot here and rambled a bit. I just think that the "Modern American" approach to medicine, especially pharmacy is like a completely different system and philosophy. It is hard for an American to understand the idea of a comprehensive system for their health.

Most Americans are gonna say they want freedom from anxiety, a shot in the stomach to make them not obese, a Honduran man-servant to stretch them while they watch Youtube etc. The idea of looking at one's self from the top down is not something most of us are willing to do.

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that a person coming here looking for an "anxiolytic" in the Vedic knowledge is probably not going to find what they are actually looking for. I believe they can be beneficial, but they're not ever going to be the on-demand, anxiety on/off switch that we alll know from the world of pharmacy.

I appreciate your detailed response. Very helpful.

 

[ShulginsReincarnation]

Ashwaganda is a weird one. At first it gave me anxiety and dysphoria, but after about a week of dosing it does start producing a fairly nice anxiolytic and sedative effect. I never found it useful for sleep, because it also gave me insomnia during the sedative effect. I enjoyed taking it during the day, great for work, reduces stress a lot.

However, taking it long term is a bad idea and it caused some serious issues for me. It's also mildly addictive and it does produce a physical dependence. The withdrawal is similar to SSRI withdrawal + mild benzo withdrawal. It interacts negatively with a whole bunch of other drugs as well.

I never experienced a "loading phase" with the herb, but I noticed that weaker formulas didn't work quite as well as stronger ones for me. So, maybe the herb/its metabolites had to build up in some way for you? I can't say because I have only looked a little into its pharmacology, and I don't remember there being much scientific data on it when I did. I just know that some EU countries are considering banning it due to its known effect on hormone regulation which may cause dysfunction and there is some strange claim that it causes spontaneous abortion which is entirely unfounded that they are basing their argument upon.

It does help for anxiety/stress, but not so much sleep like you said. It also is not anywhere nearly as addictive as an SSRI or benzodiazepine for me. I just go back to normal anxiety and stress levels without it I guess, and it can become obnoxious when that happens but not anything close to as bad as with benzo w/d or SSRI addiction (which is fucking evil in a whole nother way entirely.) Also, what drugs does it interact negatively with that you have in mind? I have never heard this before, and while I don't do drugs myself other than what I am prescribed it would be good to know and understand the mechanisms behind such.

With every single supplement, there are some things you need to consider.

The Supplement industry is notoriously unregulated in the United States. I cannot speak for Canada or Europe. Once you have done your research and decided that you want to give a supplement a try, you have to make sure you buy from a quality source. For instance, GNC, a large supplement retailer in the United States has been busted twice in recent memory, with auditors finding many of their supplements contain little or no active ingredient.

The world of "supplements" is really like the wild west even when you have a product that is certifiable. You have so many choices out there. You have so many different points of information telling you this, telling you that, do this, I can't believe you do that, this is how you do it! Basically, it's a lot of conjecture.

If you decide to try a supplement, give it an actual try. It depends on what you're taking. A rule of thumb should be to take something for at least 2 weeks and ideally at least a month before making judgements of any kind. Most people are not interested in this sort of thing. In addition to their daily life, they now need to keep a mental journal of perhaps a half-dozen different supplements in their bodies. They need to watch for the minute effects of herbs that are often vastly more mild than "drugs". They need to also pay attention to how each supplement might be affecting the next.

It is really a pretty big investment of time and mental energy to do this properly.

Ashwaghanda is an herb historically used in South Asian Folk Medicine. This system as a whole is often referred to as "Vedic Medicine". Veda is the Sanskrit word for "knowledge". The educated class devised and recorded manuals for mental, physical and spiritual guidance. This period ~1500 years ago is thus known as the Vedic Period. Yoga is another such practice that was characterized and elaborated upon during the vedic period.

With that being said, Ashwaghanda is touted as an "adaptogen".

An "adaptogen" is apparently a substance that helps the body to "adapt to stress". Forgive me, maybe I'm going to sound like a dick, but that seems like the most ambiguous statement ever. It's a statement that could mean literally anything. A person could adapt both positively and negatively to stress so... you get where I'm going.

Most people say Ashwaghanda acts as a mild anxiolytic among other more ambiguous terms that I have read. People say it is helpful for physical and mental tension. They say it helps with sleep also.

I've experimented with Vedic Medicine. I've tried Ashwaghanda. I've also tried other similar stuff like Rhodiola Rosea. I tried each for a reasonable amount of time. I would be lying if I said they made a difference for me. I feel like even a modest benefit in anxiety symptoms would be worth the ~$30/month required for a quality supplement. So, this stuff wasn't even worth 30 a month.

I don't feel like these kind of supplements exist in the same space as pharmaceuticals like Benzodiazepines. There is no herb that I can truly say could imitate a Benzodiazepine. Kava is really nice sure, but that's kind of an outlier in all of this. Side note: I'd recommend trying Kava if you haven't. It's one of the few herbal supplements I have tried that didn't utterly disappoint me.

These supplements, if they work are not meant to "fix" people. The system of Vedic Medicine is more of a comprehensive guide for living your best and most healthy life. It is antithetical to this philosophy for a person to walk in from the street, pick and choose what they want etc.

I think these herbs are meant to be taken over long periods of time, in conjuction with a good diet and physical activity. It's a very "modern" take on things to pick a symptom and then attempt to annihlate that symptom with a specific drug as if this is a solution. I think their philosophy is getting at the fact that it's more rational to treat the cause of a problem than to treat the symptom.

I know I've written a lot here and rambled a bit. I just think that the "Modern American" approach to medicine, especially pharmacy is like a completely different system and philosophy. It is hard for an American to understand the idea of a comprehensive system for their health.

Most Americans are gonna say they want freedom from anxiety, a shot in the stomach to make them not obese, a Honduran man-servant to stretch them while they watch Youtube etc. The idea of looking at one's self from the top down is not something most of us are willing to do.

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that a person coming here looking for an "anxiolytic" in the Vedic knowledge is probably not going to find what they are actually looking for. I believe they can be beneficial, but they're not ever going to be the on-demand, anxiety on/off switch that we alll know from the world of pharmacy.

Well put, but it is often not just Americans when it comes to quick fixes, this is more and more widespread unfortunately. America is obviously awful for it (probably one of the worst I imagine,) but it is not the only place with a large number of people with this mindset. It seems driven by the spread of technology and capitalistic influence in varying ways, but I won't go into such as it will turn this more into a philosophical debate if I do.

Oh, right, and kava didn't do anything for me by the way. And, I consumed far more than the bottle recommended. Actually, if memory serves me, I consumed the whole bottle of it which was supposed to be 30 or so doses. Did nothing. Considering valerian root has Valerinic Acid in it which is a positive allosteric modulator of the GABA receptor like benzos are, I say its most like them if we really want to draw comparisons even though that still yet is a poor one. I do get what you're saying and agree entirely either way, but wanted to point out kava really isn't "an exception" in my eyes. Maybe the harmala alkaloids could be considered "exceptions," but I also have never really taken them in large enough dose for me to be able to say; I'm just grasping at straws for what may qualify as "an exception" here since kava isn't one for me lol

But, yes, thank you again for the well thought out elaboration on this matter.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

I believe that the potency of Kava / Valerian root etc depends very heavily on how fresh the plant matter is

 

[ShulginsReincarnation]

I believe that the potency of Kava / Valerian root etc depends very heavily on how fresh the plant matter is

Someone else has told me this too, so its entirely possible in terms of reasons why I felt nothing.

 

[Quasimoto]

I never experienced a "loading phase" with the herb, but I noticed that weaker formulas didn't work quite as well as stronger ones for me. So, maybe the herb/its metabolites had to build up in some way for you?

My gut feeling is that it's self-inhibiting similar to Kava and it's purported "reverse tolerance". It likely inhibits the same enzymes that metabolize it, so over time it builds up in your system leading to increased effect. It probably also raises serotonin levels over time, although I'm a little skeptical if this is the reason.

I just know that some EU countries are considering banning it due to its known effect on hormone regulation which may cause dysfunction and there is some strange claim that it causes spontaneous abortion which is entirely unfounded that they are basing their argument upon.

It does effect hormones quite drastically for an herb. It raises testosterone and I believe I read one paper that said it increases muscle building by a very impressive 20%.

Spontaneous abortion does sound pretty extreme, I feel like it would be illegal if there was incontrovertible proof it did that. They put this stuff in everything these days. Like 50% of the OTC sleep aids at walmart have some in it.

Also, what drugs does it interact negatively with that you have in mind? I have never heard this before, and while I don't do drugs myself other than what I am prescribed it would be good to know and understand the mechanisms behind such.

I dunno, I haven't done too much research in that area, and it's been a few years since I've taken the stuff or looked into it. I had a really bad reaction to it a few years ago after taking it for 2 or 3 months, but it's hard to pinpoint exactly what was interacting with what. At the time I blamed most of it on ashwagandha, but in retrospect the main culprit was probably (R) nicotine from synthetic/racemic vape juice. That's a whole interesting thread I've been meaning to write. (R) nicotine has unique metabolites and they interact severely badly with kratom alkaloids.

It's similar to kratom in that it's very pharmacologically complex and neurologically promiscuous, it does quite a lot of things in the body, so it probably has a ton of cross-interaction potential in general. I remember trying it out initially after reading it potentiates benzos, which it does seem to do, but not enough to warrant taking it daily or dealing with it's other side effects.

 

[goaway12345]

I believe that the potency of Kava / Valerian root etc depends very heavily on how fresh the plant matter is

So would that mean that the more expensive it is the better it is? Also does Kava, Ashwaganda and valerian take a while to build up in the system?

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I found it reduced my anxiety along with my motivation. Or maybe it's just being anxious about everything is a good motivator. It also raised my sex drive somewhat. I took it for a few months and didn't notice any ill effects when I stopped, but I think with ashwaganda and adaptogenics in general it's good to pulse them, ie 3 weeks on 1 week off or something like that.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

So would that mean that the more expensive it is the better it is?

I definitely wouldn't assume this

More expensive stuff is PROBABLY better if you trust your supplier and he isn't taking your eyes out, but you probably shouldn't trust your dealer, and he probably is trying to short you. This goes for all drugs, not just Kava

 

[JahBeeuS]

Ashwaganda is a weird one. At first it gave me anxiety and dysphoria, but after about a week of dosing it does start producing a fairly nice anxiolytic and sedative effect. I never found it useful for sleep, because it also gave me insomnia during the sedative effect. I enjoyed taking it during the day, great for work, reduces stress a lot.

However, taking it long term is a bad idea and it caused some serious issues for me. It's also mildly addictive and it does produce a physical dependence. The withdrawal is similar to SSRI withdrawal + mild benzo withdrawal. It interacts negatively with a whole bunch of other drugs as well.

This is interesting, I remember taking it for about 3 months nearly daily and when I stopped I was laid up in bed with some very bad stomach issues / lethargy for about a day. I chalked it up to the kids getting me sick but also thought it might've had something to do with the Ashwaganda.

Another thing to note is I did notice some hair thinning around the time I was taking it. I was using that, boron, and some other natural testosterone enhancers to see if I could get any noticeable help in the gym. I can't say for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if it did increase the free test in blood which lead to some hair thinning. Could also just be im getting old....

 

[goaway12345]

This is interesting, I remember taking it for about 3 months nearly daily and when I stopped I was laid up in bed with some very bad stomach issues / lethargy for about a day. I chalked it up to the kids getting me sick but also thought it might've had something to do with the Ashwaganda.

Another thing to note is I did notice some hair thinning around the time I was taking it. I was using that, boron, and some other natural testosterone enhancers to see if I could get any noticeable help in the gym. I can't say for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if it did increase the free test in blood which lead to some hair thinning. Could also just be im getting old....

Boron is a testosterone enhancer? I have a few caps in a bottle from years ago. Any others you care to mention?

 

[JahBeeuS]

Boron is a testosterone enhancer? I have a few caps in a bottle from years ago. Any others you care to mention?

There are some studies to suggest that.

Nettle root and pine pollen are others. But they aren't going to be like TRT or anything. Just minor boosts around the edges. If you're in a normal healthy range they may not be beneficial at all.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

With that being said, Ashwaghanda is touted as an "adaptogen".

I've experimented with Vedic Medicine. I've tried Ashwaghanda. I've also tried other similar stuff like Rhodiola Rosea. I tried each for a reasonable amount of time. I would be lying if I said they made a difference for me. I feel like even a modest benefit in anxiety symptoms would be worth the ~$30/month required for a quality supplement. So, this stuff wasn't even worth 30 a month.

Rhodiola Rosea worked for me, just not in a good way.
It doesn t react well with prescription stimulant s ime.

Aswhagandha/ Whithania Somniferrum, did work.
When att i was under chronic stress, it felt real good to take it.
Did make me horney as, and my piss smelt like Horse Urine.

Adaptogen, vague term indeed. Cannabis could also be named so,
wasn t it psychoactive too, but the term. Refers IMO to:
Assisting the body get to Homeostasis, sounds logic to me.
Then taking it for stress, repair/ support my Hippo-campus a.o.
Goal some Homeostasis. My body felt flood by Cortisol/ Glutamate ?

And Ashwagandha really helped then.

Visited a Ayurvedic too, but they don t suggest singular Herb extract s and such.
It s more combinations off, fine tuned to current constitution/ state.
Though Huberman advised 2 weeks on 2 off.

I don't feel like these kind of supplements exist in the same space as pharmaceuticals like Benzodiazepines. There is no herb that I can truly say could imitate a Benzodiazepine. Kava is really nice sure, but that's kind of an outlier in all of this. Side note: I'd recommend trying Kava if you haven't. It's one of the few herbal supplements I have tried that didn't utterly disappoint me.

These supplements, if they work are not meant to "fix" people. The system of Vedic Medicine is more of a comprehensive guide for living your best and most healthy life. It is antithetical to this philosophy for a person to walk in from the street, pick and choose what they want etc.

I think these herbs are meant to be taken over long periods of time, in conjuction with a good diet and physical activity. It's a very "modern" take on things to pick a symptom and then attempt to annihlate that symptom with a specific drug as if this is a solution. I think their philosophy is getting at the fact that it's more rational to treat the cause of a problem than to treat the symptom.

Like their are very little Pharmaceutical s that can match up to Herbs.
Most Pharm s do a bad job vs Herb s just a example,
Diazepam vs Erythravine for seizure s. The latter works better,
has less side effect s and a lot of other beneficial properties.

Sad thing, they can t patent it ! though on paper its miles above.

Best to treat the problem, but that won t happen here.
You ll move a lot of cash between leaching Healthcare shit.
And are lucky to come out alive. Fuck em.

Ayurveda cured my lower back pain in a session, where was
our modern western developed system, what was their cure.
Live with it, that is imo not acceptable.
Get it they ain t gonna give painkiller s OK.

Fine, but letting someone suffer, while a 'so called',
alternative medicine practise gets the job done, 25 years ago,
Kinda to long to be placebo i guess.

 

[goaway12345]

Is Kava an Anxiolytic?