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Stimulants Article by a psychiatrist who says MPH & Amphetamines damage the brain!

S

sacsky

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
131
I am devastated.
How can this be?
I always heard and read everywhere that ritalin and amphetamines for ADHD are safe and all that.
And now this!? I feel totally fooled. Have they been lying to us or what? :X
What do I do now?
I have been taking ritalin for over a year, though only relatively low doses (20-30mg/day) and also not every day.
What if this has already causes damage to the neurons?

http://psychotropical.com/index.php/why-most-new-antidepressants-are-ineffective-4
This commentary is about the intra-neuronal storage of monoamines in vesicles.The vesicular monoamine transporter (VMAT2) is responsible for actively taking up all monoamines (i.e. dopamine (DA), serotonin (5-HT), norepinephrine (NE), epinephrine (EPI) and histamine (HIS)) from within the neurone into the storage granules (vesicles) ready for release into the synapse, which is a nerve-impulse-dependent phenomenon.
It is important to know about recent developments of knowledge concerning this transporter because some of the drugs used in psychiatry effect VMAT2 and there is evidence that such drugs can produce neuro-toxic effects. Such effects are relevant in the damage caused by the street drug ecstasy, and also, probably, by the therapeutic drug amphetamine, and perhaps others. Methylphenidate has recently been shown to cause loss of dopaminergic neurones and to potentiate the toxicity of MPTP (1). So, there are some interesting and potentially serious and consequential issues revolving around the mechanism of action of such drugs and the consequences of their therapeutic use.
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The study referenced talks about injecting mice with ~10mg/kg methylphenidate - the equivalent would be a human injecting about 500mg Ritalin in a dose. And they do this chronically, so not just once.

So yes, methylphenidate might be toxic to DA neurons, but "the dose makes the poison" as all toxins go. The doses used as a human stimulant are pretty small in comparison. Even table salt can be lethal if you eat enough.

Amphetamine is the same situation: proven to be toxic in overuse, but at low doses (under ~30mg daily) there's much less to worry about and any damage that occurs is on a way slower timescale.
 
But they also used 1mg/kg and this isn't really that much. It's basically the maximum allowed dosage of MPH in adults.

Also this here sounds rather scary.

http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000166/Default.htm

Do Chronic Therapeutic Doses of Amphetamine Induce Sensitization to Adverse Effects?
The issue of ‘sensitization' to adverse effects following repeated low to moderate doses of stimulants is a critical issue in the treatment of attention deficit hyperactivity disorders (ADHD) in children as well as adolescents and adults. Is there sensitization to drug reinforcement or potential for psychosis? The suggested dose range for methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine dosing in most children is 0.3– 2.0 mg/kg daily and slightly lower doses for adolescents and adults. The dose for dextroamphetamine is cited as being approximately half that for methylphenidate (226). Even without considering the rodent to man correction, 0.25–1.0 mg/kg/day is clearly within the dose range quoted in most paradigms of locomotion sensitization in experimental animals. Studies in adolescents generally indicate that the stimulants are efficacious and safe in the treatment of ADHD (226).
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I really cannot imagine that stimulants are unproblematic. I mean how knows what kind of stuff they do in the body which isn't even researched yet?
For example I recently came across a rather new study that MPH increases oxidative stress!
I know from blood tests that I have increased oxidative and nitrosative stress even though I already take vitamins.
And when I did these tests I wasn't even taking any stimulants. :(
 
Yes, but read the sentences before. There the author says that sensitization happens already at the doses which are used in humans.
This is not good but bad.
 
It doesn't say that, though. It says that the dose is within the range predicted to cause sensitization effects - not that it for-certain causes sensitization effects.
 
Amphetamine is a neuro-toxic chemical no matter which way you twist it. Our brains don't have "amphetamine receptors", nor were we designed to have to break down such chemicals, so yes, it is toxic in some capacity no matter what. "Toxic" is a strong word, though, so don't freak out. Is 20mg going to cause brain damage? Not in the sense that you're worried about, but it's definitely not something your brain is happy about dealing with. Make it deal with this on a daily basis for years and years, then yes, I would bet that undesirable changes have occurred like receptor-down-regulation, depletion, oxidization, as well as the re-routed reward pathways that you have become accustomed to.
 
This is scary. :(
But on the other hand being depressed is also not healthy. If the stuff worked against depression and adhd then I think I'd rather take it and feel better than not to take it cause I worry
about future consequences which are hard to grasp anyway.

Could the negative effects of amphetamines be reduced somehow through antioxidants or other substances which get into the brain and do something good there?
 
Seattle_Stranger said:
Our brains don't have "amphetamine receptors"
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Yes they do.

Amphetamine basically substitutes for phenethylamine, an endogenous trace amine which plays a key role in monoamine regulatory function. The only difference is that the alpha methylation resists metabolism by monoamine oxidase, which is what allows amphetamine to have an effect when consumed (as opposed to being locally transported like phenethylamine).

The toxicity of amphetamines is real, but this isn't because it's some magical evil drug hurting your brain. Rather, it has to do with the oxidative stress which occurs naturally as a function of dopamine release of all kinds. Your brain is constantly dealing with oxidative and metabolic stressors, but has mechanisms in place to mitigate/repair the damage being caused. Obviously, however, those mechanisms can't keep up past a certain point. This is why amphetamine is observably neurotoxic only past a certain dosage threshold.
 
InterestingFACT said:
Yes they do.

Amphetamine basically substitutes for phenethylamine, an endogenous trace amine which plays a key role in monoamine regulatory function. The only difference is that the alpha methylation resists metabolism by monoamine oxidase, which is what allows amphetamine to have an effect when consumed (as opposed to being locally transported like phenethylamine).

The toxicity of amphetamines is real, but this isn't because it's some magical evil drug hurting your brain. Rather, it has to do with the oxidative stress which occurs naturally as a function of dopamine release of all kinds. Your brain is constantly dealing with oxidative and metabolic stressors, but has mechanisms in place to mitigate/repair the damage being caused. Obviously, however, those mechanisms can't keep up past a certain point. This is why amphetamine is observably neurotoxic only past a certain dosage threshold.
Click to expand...

Very true. You also get dopamine relased from certain foods, chocolate, exercise, sleep deprivation, and from drinking coffee. You also have it released by reaching a goal or reward you set for yourself.

Ritalin to inhibits dopamine reuptake. This will cause more dopamine to be left in the synaptic cleft, where it has its effect.

Methylphenidate's mechanism of action involves the inhibition of catecholamine reuptake, primarily as a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Methylphenidate acts by blocking the dopamine transporter and norepinephrine transporter, leading to increased concentrations of dopamine and norepinephrine within the synaptic cleft. This effect in turn leads to increased neurotransmission of dopamine and norepinephrine. Methylphenidate is also a 5HT1A receptor agonist.
 
^^ yeah dude and chicken shit smells better than dog shit, or in low/ moderated doses. but it still stinks
 
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