• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

Any Solution for MDMA Depression?

catinthehat4

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
92
For about 6 months I've been dealing with intense depression as a result of a heavy night with purported MDMA (never tested; likely cut with some meth/speed) on halloween. That night, I wasn't properly hydrated and I also spent time in a hot room. Strangely, I didn't notice uncomfortable body temperature elevation or any signs of impending doom. Still, in retrospect, due to these factors, I suspect toxicity and not neuroadaptive downregulation as the culprit of my woes.

But oddly, I'm not exhibiting short term memory loss. I made good grades this semester. I mention this because since most MDMA abusers report noticeable short term memory loss, there's an idealistic part of me that wonders if MDMA just "triggered" a depressive episode as opposed to causing depression via toxicity. Is this even possible?

But basically, life has lost its meaning. I want desperately to be happy again. I'm wondering if any medical intervention can help or if I'm simply doomed to a life of chronic depression for one night's ignorance.

I know SSRIs and MDMA damage are contraidicted. But what about MAIOs? Or TCAs?

And what are your views on ECT? I know it's seen as barbaric and risky, but based on what I've read its efficacy is unprecedented.

Or will my brain adapt on its own? Do I just need to ride this out?

I'm really fed up with living like this. Any help/feedback is appreciated.
 
I wouldn't be so quick to blame your depression on one night of MDMA usage. Take a look at your lifestyle, diet, job/hobbies, and excercise - I bet one of those holds the key to a more permanent solution than chemical band-aids. It's not unheard of that MDMA usage triggers depression or the urge to change one's lifestyle. If you've been doing nothing but working a 9 to 5, eating, sleeping and watching TV since you rolled no chemicals will really help you. Remember, life doesn't have a meaning - it's up to you to make it.

MAOIs and trycyclics are usually only for hardcore depression and SSRI's are functionally not that much better than placebo. ECT is way off the map for most people and is a needlessly invasicve procedure of last resort.
 
I wish it wasn't that night, but the fact is, it was. It's the clear variable. I was motivated and moving ahead in life week before it happened, but ever since that night, I've been lost and deeply miserable. What I'm going through is a real chemical problem. Objectively, I have a great life. This makes my dilemma all the more frustrating because I have access to positive forces in my life, however, due to this chemical problem, I cannot connect with these forces.

For the record, I would consider my depression pretty hardcore. I'm wondering if certain antidepressants have modalities that bypass the potential damage that MDMA caused. For instance, SSRIs won't work for me because there aren't the necessary axons/receptors to bind to.

Thanks for your response by the way. Another reason I'm interested in learning more about antidepressants is because if indeed this did just simply "trigger" a depression, perhaps there is medication that can help me.
 
Last edited:
Mdma did me the same way

Hey,
I hear you, between my late teens through college, I got way into E, shrooms and acid. I tripped on E about 2-3 times a month and the acid and shrooms...maybe 4 times a year. I am much older now (44) and reading your post brought me back to the beginning high and happiness of a E to the bleak, grey, sad state it left me w/in about 6 months. You know when I used to come down from shrooms and acid I would always feel a bit sad, its like attending a funeral after a great party. But E was different it fucked me mentally so hard. I found simple tasks like writing term papers, even reading was impossible. Even cocaine (which can make me cry like a baby when I run out) I could bounce back to my happy go lucky self. Anyway I did get on anti depressants. They didn't help a lot but this was pre ssri's plus I was still partying a bit, but it did help me decide to stop the E. With the help of my trippin friends we all quit (plus it was expensive) and that helped. It took me about 6 months to a year to get my head together. Granted I was not sober, I drank a bit and started smokin lots of bud. I know it seems impossible to put my emotional anhedonia on one substance. But I could feel how damaged I was after a night of E. It would be such a low that at times I would trip alone to get that good feeling back. Each time I used E I fell deeper and deeper into such a funk. Sorry to ramble. imho I feel you should see a psych and be honest about your drug usage. ECT...that is radical, granted much safer procedure than it was. But there are some good anti depressants out there. Wow I wish you the best. You brought me back to such a bad time in my life, I really want you to be happy or atleast balanced...I know it sucks but please see a doc and keep me posted. Joel
 
great advice psychedlicpeptide. I hope your lack of empathy implies a belief that the brain is an efficient self-righting system.

I'm looking for answers here. Not some bullshit pep talk.

And furthermore, it's not the drug experience I'm struggling with. It's not like while rolling I gained some insight that I'm unable to integrate into my daily existence. It's the chemical issue as a result of rolling; not the experience itself.

p.s.
screw you. you're lack of empathy for a serious, chemical depression reveals your inability to even assess the level of suffering i've come to know.

i'm looking for help/answers. not some middle school gym coach motivational kick in the ass.
 
The best cure I know

Hey brother...

I feel the need to back you up.
I remember the transition quite clearly as well.
It took 3 days after my last use to 'change'. I felt great for the first three days, but then, quite suddenly it was very different.

It it hard to handle people that immediately want to point out other factors as the cause, when we really have ZERO doubt, whatsoever.

The difference is amazing in its relentlessness.
Every day you wake up and its still there.

To respond to your inquiries:

Short-term memory loss seems to be much less common and less pronounced than anxiety/depression/anhedonia. Many people with injuries to the frontal or prefrontal cortex maintain their IQs, just not their perception of the world...

If you were mixing up words, you would truly belong to the 'e-tard' category.
It seems that more long-term down-regulation must occur for that to happen.

The fact that you continued to do well in school is most impressive.
It not only speaks to your intact intelligence, but it also shows your drive to continue living when so many others could not. Good fucking job.

You already know the answer to MAOIs and TCAs, too.

ECT is very risky. It is also effective in sprouting new 5-HT receptors.
It has resulted in profound relief of symptoms for those that suffer extreme schizo/psychotic disorders. While we have a few clinical symptoms in common with this group, we are not really a part of it. Even IF we were, ECT would not be offered to us until LONG after standard medications failed to provide benefits. They just won't do it.

Also, consider the fact that the 're-wiring' that you are going through is going to be permanent. I fear that ECT could cause receptor sites to be forced open in inappropriate areas. I read an account of a woman that had this done to her and NEVER recovered. She called it a 'rape of the mind' and claimed to not feel human years down the road. The 5-HT network is trying to reconnect over vast distances in the brain, so forcing it to permanently alter its course could cause major problems.

That being said, some do claim major improvement after ECT.
It probably induces massive release of cortisol, which compresses the normal healing process. I imagine you get days/weeks worth of recovery done in minutes.

That might be a good thing. But if its bad, it might be really bad.

I normally rant about exercise, but this time I will suggest something even closer to ECT than that!

Anger.

I have brought this up before as well, but I must push it again.
Exercise has always brought reliable and consecutive benefits that have REALLY helped.

But on the nights that I have broken down and allowed my anxiety/depression/anhedonia to transform into anger/rage - I have felt more change than ANY work-out ever provided.

It normally takes quite a while too - its not a quick process.
I intentionally MAKE it last as long as possible.
I will literally FORCE myself to feel more and more angry about what happened.
I will push the tears and screaming out. :X
I wail on my punching bag until I feel like I'm going to pass out! 8o

Sometimes I am done in 10 minutes. Sometimes I repeat the process for up to 2 hours! As long as I still feel the slightest anger left within me, I keep going...

By the end I am exhausted, and I wonder why I haven't had a stroke...
I actually take Aspirin and Tumeric beforehand.

The hours that follow this are VERY strange.
I can FEEL the neurotransmitters soaking in.
My whole body is affected.
The days that follow often feel completely stable and quiet, eerily so.
I have been known to claim feeling 'normal' on some of these days.

Can you accept this as possible?
Can you believe that intense bouts of anger produce a chemical equivalent to ECT?

It makes sense to me, and LOTS of therapists, that the potent expression of anger produces vast neuro-endocrine changes. Any good therapist will try to get a depressed patient to realize what they are angry about. Many patients aren't even aware that they are supposed to be that mad. Only after forcing it out, do they exhibit a real change.

You may not even feel that much anger over what happened.
You should.

If you embrace your dark side - really go for it...
Brother, I promise results.

How about this:

About a month ago I had a particularly strong 'rage session'.
I had not had one for about 4 months when this one took place.
I was NOT prepared for the change that followed.

The next day, I felt a shift occur.
Not only was I a little bit sharper mentally, but I had a massive increase in blood flow to parts of my brain.

My constant head-pressure and 'buzzing' suddenly turned into something that felt like ZAPS or the ripping and tearing of brain tissue!
It hurt like HELL.
For HOURS.

I was certain I was going to have a stroke....no doubt about it.
I had reason to believe that I did.
That night I felt radial pain all down my right arm, from the armpit to the palm of my hand. It hurt and felt numb at the same time. I feared losing muscle control and not being able to lift the arm.

The next two days were still very bad.
Every time I ate, I would have HOURS of amazing new head-pressure.
It felt like my eyes were going to POP and fill with blood!
I had not felt such pressure in my head since the beginning of this whole ordeal!

Then I read that former MDMA users are at an increased risk of stroke for LONG after they discontinue use. Very young, former users of MDMA have died this way. This is due to changes in the 5-HT network, which has very strong effects upon blood distribution in the brain.

I believe that as the brain recovers and re-sprouts new receptors, there can be sudden shifts in vascular pressure. As new receptors take hold within the branches of the network, there is an increase in serotonin in areas that were previously starved.

These 'previously starved' sections of tissue have undergone compensatory up-regulation. Once the serotonin starts to flow, there is WAY too much blood flow/pressure in this area! Autopsies of MDMA users have revealed tissue necrosis in the Globus pallidus, a serotonin rich section of the brain.

The whole point of this rant was to establish the unbelievably potent effects of 'rage therapy'. It caused a marked and sudden change in me - one so profound that I couldn't deny it. There was a definitive change in blood distribution in my brain as a direct result of this 'therapy'.

Its as good as any goddamn ECT.

What is happening to us is not simply the re-establishment of 'old' receptor sites.
Instead, we are experiencing a re-organization of the 'ascending' axonal structure.

This is going to take more time.
Animal research suggests that the last 25% of recovery takes as long as the first 75%.

There is not much real treatment for patients like us.
SSRIs are a foolish response used by doctors. They provide real results, but at a high cost. Other medications do not address the primary issue, which is the re-organization of the 5-HT tree.

ECT can speed up the re-wiring, but perhaps in a very risky/permanent manner.

The only 'treatment' that I believe in other than regular exercise is semi-regular "rage therapy".

If you need a psychologist to guide you, you should consider it.
If you don't want to go that route, then you must try this on your own.

I have met former SSRI users that have not recovered from anhedonia for decades after discontinuation. They never feel human again.
I strongly suspect that these people allowed their brains to be re-wired without the expression of primal emotions.

It is easy to ignore the depth of anger that is present, because just like all your other feelings, it is distant.

But unlike the positive emotions, the emotion of anger is hard-wired in.
Your limbic system still functions. Use it.

Reach deep down and drag that shit out.
Its not like I can do it on just any day.
I wait for the feeling of desperation to build.
I plan for it.

Every time I go through with it, I feel like I hit another plateau the next day!

This is the only way I know how to help you, brother.
I hope you really consider it.

Good luck, Cat.
 
Do exercise daily in the morning to release natural endorphins to lift your mood throughout the day, and also help you to sleep.

Be sure to eat regular, healthy meals. Take the additional a-z Vitamine supplement, 5-htp if you like and omega fish oils.

Abstain from all drug use.

Don't spend your days trawling through the internet for an answer to your question, you will just get into a loop of worry.

Force yourself to spend time with friends/family and other activities that will keep you away from thinking about yourself and how you feel constantly. You don't feel like it, but it's the only way to feel better.

Honestly having a healthy lifestyle and daily excersice will sort you out.


Depression can all be in the head, that doesn't mean it is not real, just that it can be sorted!
 
Hang on, why do you think that you can't take SSRIs?

SSRIs will stop MDMA from working, if you take them at the same time. Having taken MDMA 6 months ago won't stop SSRIs from working.

Get yourself to a doctor, talk through your options - therapy/counselling, SSRIs or some other drug. I'd suggest being honest about your perception of the causes of the depression, and then you and the doctor can work things out together.
 
You cant really speed up recovery with anything other than ECT, exercise, or curcumin. I mean ssris dont induce neurogenesis very much, they just make the serotonin receptors you have work better.

It really sucks your one of us now. Part of an elite crew of mdma sufferers.
 
What other drugs?meds were you on?

MDMA is unlikely to cause depression as described, though it can rarely precipitate what eventual becomes classified as" major" depression.

Any familial history of severe depression?

Not to discount your symptoms, but what exactly consistents of your depressive symptoms?

Any other relevant issues occuring from that night to present day?
 
Memantine is good, curcumin is fucking great, it spikes plasma BDNF levels, which is actually one of the only growth factors that have been showed to almost fully repair a completely destroyed 5 HT system from the destruction of PMA, which is a wayyy more potent neurotoxin than MDMA.

Unfortunately, in that study they used injections of recombinant BDNF, and the repair of nearly the whole network was complete in 4 weeks.

I can't imagine how badly such a fast recovery could go wrong in humans, which backs up FBC ECt claims. Virtually, stead clear of ect, its very barbaric and how bad would you feel if you couldn't remember how to read, or how to drop out of school? I've read self reports schizophrenics having to deter from university and literally reteach themselves how to read and write after 10 sessions.. Seems a bit drastic.

Anyways, I think BDNF is the main factor to your recovery. Research it, and out yourself on a mission. Challenges are always fun eh? Imagine how GREAT you'll feel if you overcome this one, probably one of the toughest challenges out there. You'll be able to take on the world.

Keep up with school, learning increases BDNF protein levels, aswell as "intentional" exercise, so you "have to" try and enjoy it. I guarantee you, the more you stimulate your frontal lobes , i.e. picking out patterns, socializing, exercising your working memory and quickness of thought, as hard as it may be, it'll release BDNF in the corresponding areas.

Also, igf-1 with exercise is a potent andiogenesis inducer (also shown to promote axonal sprouting) which means better distribution of blood flow to the brain, which boost mitochondria function, which results in higher brain metabolism, which ultimately speeds recovery (plus your physique would be astonishing). Remember the study in rats, whom accomplished 100% recovery of 5 HT network in a year? The main reason being, higher metabolism, 300% more than humans.

Bluelight search BDNF stimulators and you'll find many. Really man, this IS a fucking mission, it's a goddamn battle, and we're BOTH on the front line, you need to make sure you've got the right inventory of weapons or your not going to make it.

Good luck bro, I'm here with you.

P.S. If you want that study about BDNF and 5 HT recovery let me know, it has slides virtually the SAME as the one in primates.
 
Memantine is good, curcumin is fucking great, it spikes plasma BDNF levels, which is actually one of the only growth factors that have been showed to almost fully repair a completely destroyed 5 HT system from the destruction of PMA, which is a wayyy more potent neurotoxin than MDMA.

Unfortunately, in that study they used injections of recombinant BDNF, and the repair of nearly the whole network was complete in 4 weeks.

I can't imagine how badly such a fast recovery could go wrong in humans, which backs up FBC ECt claims. Virtually, stead clear of ect, its very barbaric and how bad would you feel if you couldn't remember how to read, or how to drop out of school? I've read self reports schizophrenics having to deter from university and literally reteach themselves how to read and write after 10 sessions.. Seems a bit drastic.

Anyways, I think BDNF is the main factor to your recovery. Research it, and out yourself on a mission. Challenges are always fun eh? Imagine how GREAT you'll feel if you overcome this one, probably one of the toughest challenges out there. You'll be able to take on the world.

Keep up with school, learning increases BDNF protein levels, aswell as "intentional" exercise, so you "have to" try and enjoy it. I guarantee you, the more you stimulate your frontal lobes , i.e. picking out patterns, socializing, exercising your working memory and quickness of thought, as hard as it may be, it'll release BDNF in the corresponding areas.

Also, igf-1 with exercise is a potent andiogenesis inducer (also shown to promote axonal sprouting) which means better distribution of blood flow to the brain, which boost mitochondria function, which results in higher brain metabolism, which ultimately speeds recovery (plus your physique would be astonishing). Remember the study in rats, whom accomplished 100% recovery of 5 HT network in a year? The main reason being, higher metabolism, 300% more than humans.

Bluelight search BDNF stimulators and you'll find many. Really man, this IS a fucking mission, it's a goddamn battle, and we're BOTH on the front line, you need to make sure you've got the right inventory of weapons or your not going to make it.

Good luck bro, I'm here with you.

P.S. If you want that study about BDNF and 5 HT recovery let me know, it has slides virtually the SAME as the one in primates.

<3 whoa, thanks for this wonderful post

Do refer me to anythying you know about BDNF and 5-HT recovery.
 
Top