• Philosophy and Spirituality
    Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Threads of Note Socialize
  • P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat

anti-feminists are not right-wing twits

Feminism is a movement I could never bring myself to like or side with. I respect the goal of equal rights for all people. But more often than not, I see feminism, especially the more virulent strains, born out of anger and a feeling that the world owes you something, rather than a calm and rationalized desire to affect positive change for the good of all.

I say the same thing to political and religious extremists who want the world to be very different: TO WIN THE GAME, YOU HAVE TO PLAY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Thing is, throughout the ages there have been many examples of women who've had a goal and used their pluck, street smarts, and (God forbid!) feminine charm to achieve it. We're talking long before the feminist movement of the 70s, be it Joan of Arc, Harriet Tubman, or the author of the Tale of Genji, the world's first serial drama.

When you want something from somebody, you'll have a much easier time being pleasant, relaxed, and a tad manipulative than you will being outright offensive. I find more often than not, angry feminists are not socially smart. They do and say things that make ordinary folk write them off as members of the lunatic fringe in short order. Aren't these the unwashed masses they're trying to win over with their values?

For example, I once knew a girl who snatched a flyer for a beach party out of my hand which showed a woman in a bikini on the front, and bitched for five minutes about how this was using women for their bodies, and how she wasn't going just on principle, and wouldn't respect anyone who'd go. Did she ever consider that the woman in the picture almost certainly posed for the photo completely voluntarily, knowing exactly what it would be used for, and why it would attract people to the party? Furthermore, I could show her many more women who were very content to flaunt their goods in front of oggling men, and just as happy to let those men treat them in a very macho manner.

Some dudes like to make sexist comments or sexually harrass women. A snappy comeback does lots more good at earning the man's respect than a rant about how her rights have been violated. I've seen working class women with a low educational background not only hold their own against macho men, but also (egad!) make the men laugh in spite of themselves and come to respect the woman as a sassy one who takes no shit and at the end of the day IS FUN TO PAL AROUND WITH! What use do these kind of women have for feminist rhetoric?

At the end of the day, being feminine is not inconsistent AT ALL with being powerful. Look at somebody like Yoko Ono, who charmed her way into the pants and inheritance fund and media spotlight of whom many consider the greatest rock and roller of all time. She's now rich and powerful beyond most people's wildest dreams. She didn't get there by copping a tude like Ghengis Khan's.

Oprah Winfrey is another great example. She's a social genius, who wins people over with her personality and deft choice of conversation topics and comments. She's also quite rich, well-respected, and ALWAYS listened to. She didn't get where she was by writing manifestos or engaging in any in-your-face bashing of anyone. A more level-headed feminist than the one I described above once told me Oprah should run for US president. I'd vote for her.

the older I get, the fewer and fewer "isms" I take seriously. Those with real influence over other people just don't need "isms" to get their way.
 
>>I say the same thing to political and religious extremists who want the world to be very different: TO WIN THE GAME, YOU HAVE TO PLAY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE. >>

What if the very existence of the game itself is teh problem though?
:)
Of course, I'm pretty socially stupid, or whatever it is.

ebola
 
^^^ I'm a real spaz too, and I'm not fond of "the game" either. But the game is called life and there is no alternative, unless you're willing to sleep in the woods naked and live on nuts and berries. Might as well play it and see what you can get from it.
 
Great first post MyDoorsAreOpen, but what you described there is a breed of feminism within itself. The sheer fact that one would stand for equality and have people treated as well.. people regardless, is a wish that the female gender fights off the last remnents of oppression, no?

Of course, you like me.. are turned off extremely by the world in itself b/c it is so easily connected to the in your face feminists that are just annoying, the blame everyone but yourself feminists, and the hardcore man hating feminists.. not to mention a couple other little factions.

I too do not like what the label has been defined as by society.. i'd like to see the definition change in the eyes of most people though. Feminism is merely only one part of a human being.. and yes i say human being.. b/c men can be feminists too.
 
Annapurna1 said:
but some are more equal than others...and BTW..what is a "zog" anyway??...
Click to expand...

A ZOG is a 'Zionist Occupied Government'. A term reserved for those right-wing conspiracist types/nazis/anti-semitic/etc.

I've also heard it used as a synonym for 'police'.
 
>> But the game is called life and there is no alternative, unless you're willing to sleep in the woods naked and live on nuts and berries. Might as well play it and see what you can get from it.>>

I was thinking of the game called society. That one could use replacement.

ebola
 
DD, I agree the word "feminist" has been dirtied by the types I described.

I usually hate to argue semantics, but let me drop this on you: if a person was the cool type of feminist you're talking about, why would they even need to put a label on themselves that says they're specifically for WOMEN'S rights? Wouldn't such a person generally be for treating everyone fairly and ensuring justice for all? In that case, wouldn't they be more likely to call themselves just plain old "progressives"? Seems to me the ones who wear the word "feminist" like a badge, and are focused soley on issues relating to sexism, are more likely to have a chip on their shoulder.

I'm not saying most progressive types should never be described as feminist by other people, as most indeed are for the equal rights of women. But if someone often uses the word "feminist" to describe themselves, as if it were a title after their name, proceed with caution -- you might detect a hint of nutty flavor.
 
ebola, society is what conceived you and what sustains you. As a member of it, you're perfectly in the right to want to have an effect on it. But when trying to affect change, be sure you're working WITH society, not AGAINST it. Read up on the Dada movement, and why it failed, to see what I mean.
 
I could give you my shpiel on why I think anarchy is a joke, but something tells me it's nothing you ain't heard before, so I'll spare you. Point is, nobody moves mountains by themself, with the possible exception of breakthrough scientists. Affecting change in the world is like surfing: you can choose your path and invite others to follow, but you have to respect and have a keen feel for the delicate balance of the wave that's carrying you.
 
MyDoorsAreOpen said:
DD, I agree the word "feminist" has been dirtied by the types I described.

I usually hate to argue semantics, but let me drop this on you: if a person was the cool type of feminist you're talking about, why would they even need to put a label on themselves that says they're specifically for WOMEN'S rights? Wouldn't such a person generally be for treating everyone fairly and ensuring justice for all? In that case, wouldn't they be more likely to call themselves just plain old "progressives"? Seems to me the ones who wear the word "feminist" like a badge, and are focused soley on issues relating to sexism, are more likely to have a chip on their shoulder.

I'm not saying most progressive types should never be described as feminist by other people, as most indeed are for the equal rights of women. But if someone often uses the word "feminist" to describe themselves, as if it were a title after their name, proceed with caution -- you might detect a hint of nutty flavor.
Click to expand...

The only reason the term appeals to me in application to myself is that i take great pride in rooting for the underdog of a situation especially if it's not deserved, and i pride myself on that fact. whether it's a minority, or women, athiests, or gays.

I guess i let society define it for me a bit as well. A good example.. conservatives tend to stay away from the word all together. They claim they are for fair treatment of women.. then appoint pro-life nut jobs to head up the FDA and try to ban abortion everyway they know how. "Most" people i know who shy away from the terminology... aren't for women's rights in the least. Not saying you are, just most people in the spotlight.. or who i meet day in and day out.

Just like people shy away from being labeled "environmentalist" b/c they associate that with the PETA nutjobs and other groups that perform eco-terrorism. You get labeled a whiney hippy. I think it should be applauded to be pro-woman, pro-man, pro-white, pro-black, pro-gay, pro-straight, and pro-environment.. and i'm not going to allow some nutjob hi-jacking or some right wing backlash deter me from pushing the individual agendas i care deeply about.

I do think it has to be approached as a women's movement. It needs a face, it needs a name.. for now anyways.. until equality is achieved. Same thing with gays, and blacks (which.. well with blacks now i think all that can be done in the US of A has been, the rest on the individual at this point).

I think affirmative action was a good idea. Not b/c i like the idea of reverse racism, but b/c sometimes things have to go to the opposite end of the spectrum before they come back and have a chance at a fair and balanced game of life. With affirmative action.. i think it has worn out its welcome and done all the good it can. Now it's time for it to go.. and whatever is messed up that is left.. well black individuals will have to take that reponsibility themselves.

I think there should be a day and time where having a face and name on a "women's" movement should die off too.. i just don't think that day is now.

I too have the fact that the opposite of racism/sexism/homophobia.. tends to be this special interest. A special interest that i'm overall opposed to, but like i said... it has to go beyond being "fair" and come back to that happy center we're all looking for. Also, the power of obtaining these rights has always been in numbers. Blacks got their civil rights by banning together. Same with women. So it's only natural a term be associated with it..

That's my t ake on it anyways..
 
They claim they are for fair treatment of women.. then appoint pro-life nut jobs to head up the FDA and try to ban abortion everyway they know how. "Most" people i know who shy away from the terminology... aren't for women's rights in the least. Not saying you are, just most people in the spotlight.. or who i meet day in and day out.
Click to expand...

but then again..both feminists and conservatives can claim condoleeza rice..ann coulter..et al as common representatives of both movements...and this goes back to the feminist notion of "fair treatment of women" as equal #s of males and females bombing abortion clinics...
 
I will have to object to that last remark, it has been proven that not only is ann coutler not a female, but she is not human either, she comes from the sharpest tribe of galdamax's known to existance, and if you confront her she will slice you in two.
 
I would classify Ann Coulter and Rice as feminists. They are strong women voicing their opinion. Though Coulter normally stands up for the submissive role that women "belong" in, by not taking that role herself.. she is acting of leftist principles.. and being a hypocrite. Women like this i have no problem calling a bitch or making rape jokes about. If you wanna be submissive and want women to be submissive and play house wife baby makers all day.. well shut your hole and go back to being a cum dumpster.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top