Another Newbie Post..!

G

Greg Velo

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Joined
Oct 14, 2016
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11
Hi y'all!
So.. As the title says.. Another newbie post here!
I'm planning on doing my first cycle, I've been thinking about that for a year and did a bunch of solid research but still have some questions. I really want to do it with the maximum knowledge and in the most "safe" way possible.
I'm 24 years old, I've been lifting for almost 5 years. I'm 5'8" and weigh 170 lbs at around 12% bodyfat.
My main goal with the cycle is to gain as much muscle as possible with the minimum amount of fat.

I've done total and free test blood work: 694 ng/dl for total testosterone and 43.5 pg/ml for free testosterone

My cycle would look like this (really basic I guess)

Week 1-12 Test E 250 mg (twice a week)
Week 1-12 adex .25/.5 mg EOD (just in case of bloatong or itchy nipples)

pct
Week 15-18 nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Week 15-18 clomid 75/50/50/50

NOTE: I don't want to use Adex unless it's needed because I want to see if I'm prone to gyno or/and bloating.
I Want to use testosterone only because I want to see how my body reacts to it, so I'm not stacking anything with it.

I'm gonna train 6 days a week and eat 500 cals above maintenance.

I have two questions:

1. Should I do 500 or 600 mgs of Test per week?

2. Is my PCT alright?

I want to have everything sorted out and on hand before I start anything, so if you think that something's not quite alright, please tell me.

P.S. The reason why I wanna cycle now is because I know I have the time and dedication for it. I don't know if in a year or two it will be like this. So..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
That looks like a great cycle. A classic first cycle. I dose adex the same , .25 EOD. 500 a week of test should get you about 4000 ng/ dl on mid cycle bloods.

You could go a little higher on kcals, keep protein above 200G per day.

Nice job on research, it shows.
 
Wait a couple weeks before starting adex, and you could go e3d just to feel things out. You know for sure when you do mid cycle bloods.
What steroid forum are you getting info from?
 
emptynest said:
That looks like a great cycle. A classic first cycle. I dose adex the same , .25 EOD. 500 a week of test should get you about 4000 ng/ dl on mid cycle bloods.

You could go a little higher on kcals, keep protein above 200G per day.

Nice job on research, it shows.
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks. I think of using adex just in case. Thanks for you reply.
 
emptynest said:
Wait a couple weeks before starting adex, and you could go e3d just to feel things out. You know for sure when you do mid cycle bloods.
What steroid forum are you getting info from?
Click to expand...

Thank you. What would you recommend as mid cycle blood work? Also for pre cycle given that I did just testosterone blood work. Thank you.

I'm getting information from any possible forum on the internet and I read a book too: william llewellyn's anabolics .
 
6 weeks in you should get a female hormone panel from labsmd. Check off that you are male. That test will give you the test, plus e2 level.
 
Precycle bloods are for getting a baseline test level

Will help you tell if you recovered after pct and before another cycle.
 
Hi Greg and welcome to PED... Well done on the research, I wish most were as methodical as you..

Here on Bluelight we are a harm reduction forum, we have no products for sale that we are trying to promote here, our only concern is your best interest.. William Llewellyn's book might be a bit old school now, and we don't have products to push like Thinksteroids, the bigger and longer the cycle plus extensive PCT makes them a hefty profit, with little regard for your health...

With this in mind might I offer a different methodology to your cycle plans:

We are in the process of adjusting the: "Your first cycle" sticky to modify that to a basic 250mg beginner's cycle or one of the slightly longer tapered low-dose equivalents we sometimes recommend eg 150mg up to 300mg, and also dropping the general requirement for a PCT? So please bear with us..!!

An excellent explanation of why can be found in the sticky "Why you should not frontload"... I strongly advise you read...!!

Basically most people don't need 500mg/week as a first cycle, your body will react reasonably well on a much lower dose with less side effects... It should be much easier once you have tapered off to restart HPTA, without AI's or SERM's.... Although we do advise a LOW dose AI whilst tapering off, to lower estrogenic response as exogenous test lowers also..
 
As said, drop the dose to 250mg and drop the PCT entirely, though have some SERMs on hand in case of gyno.. Nobody needs 500mg on a first cycle.
 
You'll find a few different ideas of a good first cycle.
The mods here at BL lean towards a conservative first cycle. Most of the steroid forums, whether they list sources or not still consider 500 mg a week for 12 weeks plus a PCT the standard first cycle.

The main side effect is shutdown of the HPTA, your natty test production. 250 is gonna shut you down about the same as 500 after 12 weeks.

The other sides are estrogen and red blood cell production. Pretty easy to manage at either dose.
Keep doing your research, you are off to a great start with your first cycle.
 
emptynest said:
You'll find a few different ideas of a good first cycle.
The mods here at BL lean towards a conservative first cycle. Most of the steroid forums, whether they list sources or not still consider 500 mg a week for 12 weeks plus a PCT the standard first cycle.

The main side effect is shutdown of the HPTA, your natty test production. 250 is gonna shut you down about the same as 500 after 12 weeks.

The other sides are estrogen and red blood cell production. Pretty easy to manage at either dose.
Keep doing your research, you are off to a great start with your first cycle.
Click to expand...

We do lean towards conservatism, and for a good reason here, the OP has stated he weighs 170lbs.. You suggest he needs 10X the endogenous dose in his first week..?
As an example I'm 3 stones heavier, on week 12 of a slow taper up, still on less than 500mg/week, why do you think the OP necessitates more than I do..? I don't get it..!!

I believe we have put forward good information here on the negative effects of AAS, not just shutdown, elevated E2, or hematocrit.. But serious long term deleterious changes to cardiovascular system, brain etc..

I might suggest you read the sticky "why you should not frontload"... It gives excellent rationel to starting low, and tapering up slowly... There is a better and more healthy way to use AAS...
 
emptynest said:
You'll find a few different ideas of a good first cycle.
The mods here at BL lean towards a conservative first cycle. Most of the steroid forums, whether they list sources or not still consider 500 mg a week for 12 weeks plus a PCT the standard first cycle.

The main side effect is shutdown of the HPTA, your natty test production. 250 is gonna shut you down about the same as 500 after 12 weeks.

The other sides are estrogen and red blood cell production. Pretty easy to manage at either dose.
Keep doing your research, you are off to a great start with your first cycle.
Click to expand...


Obviously 250 is not going to shut anyone down as much as 500. And as for there being only 2 other side-effects, I suggest you do a bit more research yourself.
 
CFC said:
Obviously 250 is not going to shut anyone down as much as 500. And as for there being only 2 other side-effects, I suggest you do a bit more research yourself.
Click to expand...
.
CFC, I'm the new guy here and you are mod of this section. If you would like me to support my argument I will, but if you would rather I let if go that is fine too. I've done quite a bit of research on AAS use as well as have personal experience with them.

There is limited scientific studies on the subject due to it's legal status, so much of what we know is based on peoples real life experiences and feed back. Where there are peer reviewed studies and reports I try to stay informed there as well.
 
emptynest said:
.
There is limited scientific studies on the subject due to it's legal status, so much of what we know is based on peoples real life experiences and feed back. Where there are peer reviewed studies and reports I try to stay informed there as well.
Click to expand...

Excuse me if I seem to come off heavy-handed, and I accept you're new here, but I get a little frustrated when people jump in out of the blue on this forum and say AAS cause no harm when that's precisely what I've spent the last few years here disproving, using the ample scientific evidence out there to discuss this.

I invite you to run through every single one of the Harms threads in the sticky above, and then tell me again there's no research on the subject. The research is quite detailed. What's becoming clear nowadays is just how harmful AAS are, especially their much longer-term effects, and how little attention most bodybuilders pay to those harms.

Now I'm fully aware that other forums don't discuss these issues, and that's because most other forums are filled with relative newbies who have no interest in anyone telling them to be sensible, whose moderators are mostly there to sell gear, and whose members parrot brainless information like they know what they're talking about. That's not something I respect or admire.

When it comes to harms, this is not a subject area where I will back down on. So unless you have evidence to disprove this science, don't expect me to agree with you.
 
CFC, that is a nice collection of articles, studies and research in the Sticky. I'm certainly not here to suggest that AAS use comes without those risks, clearly long term acute / chronic aas use has all sorts of health implications.

The stuff that is backed by science is hard to dispute, the other stuff... like what dose for a first cycle and what makes a hard shut down, those are not so clearly supported. I'll try to make sure I keep harm reduction as my main goal in responding to posts here, even though we may not see eye to eye.
You can certainly count on me to disagree politely, If I'm wrong and there is data to prove it I want to be corrected.

I take my health seriously too, and run modest cycles of steroids and only a couple times per year. I do frequent blood work and check my own BP daily. I want to run just enough gear to improve my quality of life at a minimal risk to my health. No need to use in excess.
 
Genetic Freak said:
Hi Greg and welcome to PED... Well done on the research, I wish most were as methodical as you..

Here on Bluelight we are a harm reduction forum, we have no products for sale that we are trying to promote here, our only concern is your best interest.. William Llewellyn's book might be a bit old school now, and we don't have products to push like Thinksteroids, the bigger and longer the cycle plus extensive PCT makes them a hefty profit, with little regard for your health...

With this in mind might I offer a different methodology to your cycle plans:

We are in the process of adjusting the: "Your first cycle" sticky to modify that to a basic 250mg beginner's cycle or one of the slightly longer tapered low-dose equivalents we sometimes recommend eg 150mg up to 300mg, and also dropping the general requirement for a PCT? So please bear with us..!!

An excellent explanation of why can be found in the sticky "Why you should not frontload"... I strongly advise you read...!!

Basically most people don't need 500mg/week as a first cycle, your body will react reasonably well on a much lower dose with less side effects... It should be much easier once you have tapered off to restart HPTA, without AI's or SERM's.... Although we do advise a LOW dose AI whilst tapering off, to lower estrogenic response as exogenous test lowers also..
Click to expand...

CFC said:
As said, drop the dose to 250mg and drop the PCT entirely, though have some SERMs on hand in case of gyno.. Nobody needs 500mg on a first cycle.
Click to expand...

So, after reading your posts and the sticky I'm probably gonna do 250/300 mg per week. But.. No PCT? Am I gonna recover without? No Clomid and Nolva? Should I still run Adex EOD? Thank you for your help.
 
emptynest said:
CFC, that is a nice collection of articles, studies and research in the Sticky. I'm certainly not here to suggest that AAS use comes without those risks, clearly long term acute / chronic aas use has all sorts of health implications.

The stuff that is backed by science is hard to dispute, the other stuff... like what dose for a first cycle and what makes a hard shut down, those are not so clearly supported. I'll try to make sure I keep harm reduction as my main goal in responding to posts here, even though we may not see eye to eye.
You can certainly count on me to disagree politely, If I'm wrong and there is data to prove it I want to be corrected.

I take my health seriously too, and run modest cycles of steroids and only a couple times per year. I do frequent blood work and check my own BP daily. I want to run just enough gear to improve my quality of life at a minimal risk to my health. No need to use in excess.
Click to expand...

You're right that many of the details are subjective, and as such I have no problem with people arguing other points of view. For first cycles and the very inexperienced, we always err on the conservative/cautious side as a harm reduction forum though.

But the last thing I want to do is censor everyone else, and I'm fully aware that people coming here from most mainstream forums will struggle with this, given the prevailing level of brotelligence.
 
Greg Velo said:
So, after reading your posts and the sticky I'm probably gonna do 250/300 mg per week. But.. No PCT? Am I gonna recover without? No Clomid and Nolva? Should I still run Adex EOD? Thank you for your help.
Click to expand...

You'll recover fine. LH and FSH should come back naturally within days of the end of the cycle, which is the purpose of SERM use anyway.

I would run the adex 0.25mg EOD throughout, and you could extend that for 3 weeks after, which may speed your recovery slightly.

Lowering oestrogen on cycle is generally a good idea since it's excessive oestrogen that seems to be most harmful to the testes - and thus makes recovery harder. Also take 5g of Taurine everyday (split dose), which should further help protect the testes.
 
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