amphetamines + Lexapro

[blase deviant]

I swear I saw this topic before, but Lexapro + speed, Lexapro + adderall, Lexapro + dex, and Lexapro + amphetamines all turned up nothing relevant, so... I did see some SSRI + amp threads, but opinions varied, there was no real clear-cut answer, and plus there's the fact that everyone is affected different which leads to multiple opinions on SSRI + amp interactions.

The Q is: Lexapro + amphetamine = serotonin syndrome?

I never had a problem on Paxil + dex/adderall, but Lexapro is more potent.

I had trouble balancing, am uncoordinated/clumsy/foggy mentally, my motor control is like moving through sludge. I also had the 'bright' colors that you get from serotonin or 5HT acting psychedelics, another clue I had high serotonin levels.

I didn't see any risks that would be fatal, but this was quite annoying and I might skip my lexapro tonight.

I was also getting the flashing blue dots in my vision; a sure sign I have a serotonin overload, at least for me. If it were just amp dizziness, the spots are pretty much always black/white, and they're a different kind/not floaty.

I did have an altered conscious (not a speed-altered one, like a tripped out WTF one), I was sweating (actually, I'd be hot one minute and sweating, the next I'd be cold and put on a sweatshirt, over and over every few min.).

I dunno about tachycardyia, my heart was actually beating slower most of the time.

But my coordination was crap. At 1st I could barely stand/had to hold onto crap, and then I got used to standing, but my thighs would weaken/go numb. They also had no muscle power, they'd just follow gravity and when I walked they went in arcs and swayed from side to side (and my torso swayed front and back and my feet wouldn't go where I wanted them too...)

I had to hold onto the wall to go to the restroom to keep from falling/bumping into people, but at least everyone probably assumed I was just drunk, rather than on something else.

Quite annoying.

I'm still curious though. Amps worked FINE with paxil. Paxil inhibits 2d6 FAR MORE than Lexapro, so why would I have problems concerning Lexapro with enzyme inhibition?

As for serotonin, if Lexapro is more potent, LESS serotonin would get out, since amps release serotonin through the whatsit mechanism, the backwards through the transporters way. However, if Lexapro is more potent, even MORE of the serotonin transporters/whatever would be blocked by the Lexapro.

Of course, if Lexapro is more selective, that means some 5HT dendrites may NOT be blocked like with less selective SSRIS, meaning more 5HT is released through those.

However, the higher potency of Lexapro's SSRI would cancel out with the higher number of unblocked receptors. So the 5HT would be uptaken at a lower rate through the Lexapro-covered receptors, however Lexapro is more selective; covering LESS RECEPTORS, therefore there would be more 'unguarded' receptors that the 5HT could just go up into; since the Lexapro wouldn't be blocking those.

And on top of that whole argument, amps release a lot less 5HT than anything else; so we have low 5HT levels being released, the Lexapro is blocking a lot of the release, and a lot of the 5HT receptors aren't even INHIBITED by the Lexapro 9since it's more selective).

After looking at all that evidence; how did I get mild serotonin syndrome/uncomfortably high 5HT levels?


Sorry if this is a bit rambling/jumping from topic to topic/unclear. I tried to proofread it

Also, I'm upset I couldn't take gfj with my benzos, since that'd make the cyp2d6 sit. worse (Lexapro couldn't metabolize through cyp3a4, so it'd go through 2d6, which it inhibits, and as concentration rose, it'd be more inhibited, like a fucking upward spiral).

The benzos didn't really help any of the symptoms at all, but after the serotonin (or whatever it was) nastiness wore off, the kpin seemed to kick in and calm me.

 

[Dr. Beat]

I thought that 'selective' in SSRI ment that it was much less NARI and anti-clogenic than the old tri-cyclics anti-depresants like imipramine, trimipramine, desipramine, ect.

Prozac still is a mild NARI (and 5Ht 2 blocker)
Zoloft is a mild DARI
Paxil is a mild NARI

 

[BilZ0r]

The description does sound a little bit like serotonin syndrome, but lexapro, (escitalopram) is an extremely selective Serotonin reuptake inhibitor. I don't quite see how this combo would create Serotonin syndrome.

 

[Synapse999]

That all sounds very much like symptoms of consistent amphetamine use..or inconsistent high/low constant doses.

i don't know much about serotonin syndrome. the effects you explain seem like the common things i experience consistently..but..along with many other...things....

i don't take lexapro, but i experience much of that to great amounts and got use to it.
i can crack any joint in my body and you'll hear loud multiple snaps...have to every couple hours or i stiffin up to nada.


xanax is precious - has counter-acted much of this to bring it down a level.


ive never given that syndrome th ing a thought, or considered it.. just part of amps..
but studies on dexedrine/meth for example...have always shown these things as part of the stages.



i been actually thinking of going on lexapro again, for opposite theory ;p
inconsistent doses, at inconsistent times, but constantly throughout the day.....is way my habit usually is... when i use to take set amounts high or low.. i could walk the line drunk ;p

now i walk drunk when sober if i take amps.

This drug has so many variables........and outcomes.


i'll edit later and make sense.....sorry

 

[blase deviant]

So basically you're saying I took too much Dexedrine, and that was the problem, not the Lexapro?

 

[blase deviant]

It happened again at a lower dosage.

 

[yaesutom]

Wow!!

I was just about to close my browser window and saw this thread...

Interesting, because a girl called me up the other day worried, because she had taken (she's young and dumb lol) 60mg of Adderall (but this is normal for her, she takes amphet's all the time with no problem) and two of her friends lexapro tabs (or capsules whatever they are).

She said she was all jittery, her pupils were dialated and for a while she felt "good" like she was "rolling", but at class at school her friends looked at her and said whoa what is wrong with you - she was sweating and looked "fucked up". Went in the bathroom and her eyes were wide dialated and said her skin looked wierd, could see her veins, her heart was racing all day long.

She said she took "two of her friends anti depressants", that started with an L and ended with an O, I couldn't figure it out so she called up whoever has them and found out it was "lexapro". I didnt know what to tell her looked like another SSRI to me asked if she needed a benzo or something but she was 'alright'. Heart racing, sweating, I went and saw her her pupils were HUGE, said she was seeing shit occasionally..

This was long long after she had taken the Adderall, told her to eat something take a multivitamin.. I believe she took two 10mg lexapro's but really I don't know. Thing is she said she felt high as a kite and "really good" for a while until the jitters came and sweating etc.

Wierd, well thought i'd add this info since I saw this thread, funny this happened just a few days ago.

 

[blase deviant]

The funny part is that I know I'm gonna keep doing this anyway, and end up feeling like shit every time after the initial part wears off.


I just don't get why Lexapro does it but not Paxil.

 

[Wasted Youth]

At the moment I'm on both Lexapro and Concerta, been taking them both daily for a month or two, and I can't say I've experienced anything like you're describing. I think if anything, when I increased the dosage on the Lexapro it made me a bit lethargic for a day or two, and my dreams became more vivid and frequent, there was a little bit of difficulty with balance, but it tended to happen only about an hour after taking the Lexapro, and it was never a big deal. You could just be feeling the effects of your body getting used to the Lexapro. Can't say for sure but I think that might be slightly more likely than serotonin syndrome.

 

[kisps]

Wasted Youth: While methylphenidate can be compared to amphetamines in terms of mental stimulation/euphoria, the psychopharmacology of methylphenidate is completely different than amphetamines (in fact, its more comparable to cocaine). My assumption is that the risk of developing serotonin syndrome from the combination of SSRI's and methylphenidate is non-existant. There is no evidence suggesting that methylphenidate increases extracellular serotonin in the brain, which would make it unlikely that they would have any adverse reaction when combined.

I do believe however, than amphetamines (methamphetamine in particular), when combined with SSRI's can lead to the development of serotonin syndrome. This is of course all dose-dependent, and would be pretty rare, but I have read journals about patients developing serotonin syndrome when combining paroxetine (Paxil), with their daily dose of dextroamphetamine (and they weren't abusing it).

 

[blase deviant]

So, ritalin would be safer?

A friend of mine is on it for ADD, but I dunno how cool he'd be with me asking to trade dexedrine for ritalin, and even if he was cool with it, he might not even wanna trade.

Any comments (journal articles or personal insights) or experiences on Ritalin vs. d-amp in combo with SSRIs?

 

[splenda]

Be careful about serotonin syndrome... as (dextro)amphetamine also releases 5HT in a strange way.

"A major excitatory projection to VTA neurons originates in the medial prefrontal cortex, and several lines of evidence suggest that glutamatergic synapses on VTA neurons are activated and modified during exposure to psychostimulant drugs. Here, we report for the first time that amphetamine depresses excitatory glutamatergic synaptic transmission onto VTA neurons in the midbrain slice preparation. Unexpectedly, this depression is mediated not by activation of dopamine receptors, but instead by activation of serotonin receptors. Our findings suggest that an acute effect of amphetamine exposure is the release of serotonin in the VTA, which in turn modulates excitation of VTA neurons." from http://amphetamines.com/serotonin/index.html

There is strangely some 5HT release with normal amphetamine but I suspect it is not as much as methamphetamines direct 5HT agonism.

 

[Rcin]

You guys have me real scared now. I used to love adderall before I had to pop at least 60mg to even feel it. However, recently I started taking Lexapro and tried some adderall while on it. Just 30mg, no big deal (and I only take 5mg of Lexapro a day). It was like I had almost no tolerance again. The high was different though. My heart didn't race at all (this was not like adderall), my pupils were enormus, I felt like talking to people a GREAT deal, being really friendly (smoking people out I barely knew). Now I've never rolled, but from what I've heard of rolling this was a lot like rolling. I sure hope I didn't get Seratonin syndrome from this combo, not only because I've done it but because it brought my long lost amphetamine high back again and I want to KEEP doing it. I would love some real pharmacological evidence either way so at least I know.

 

[Thetruthwithin]

ive been rx'd 10mg lexapro a day for 5-6 months now, and pick up some ice every now and then. i dont notice any of this wack shit you guys are talking about. and im smoking weed while im tweaking too, so i mean, even more potentiation and no problems. i also have been doing yay for a little bit and that hasnt been ill affected either (merely mentioned because of the similarities to amphetamines).

 

[splenda]

ive been rx'd 10mg lexapro a day for 5-6 months now, and pick up some ice every now and then. i dont notice any of this wack shit you guys are talking about. and im smoking weed while im tweaking too, so i mean, even more potentiation and no problems. i also have been doing yay for a little bit and that hasnt been ill affected either (merely mentioned because of the similarities to amphetamines).

This can be quite potentially dangerous as it can induce serotonin syndrome. Methamphetamine agonises serotonin through different pathways than Lexapro inhibits serotonin. This can cause an excess of serotonin in the synapse and boom, you got serotonin syndrome. Just because you've never had problems with ice (meth) and your SSRI does not mean you could possibly suffer problems in the future.