ADHD - Cash Cow For Pharma (merged)

I don't think drugs are the issue man. Hahah… oh stereotypical stoner. Oh yeah… umm… I think psychiatric drugs to some degree help. With the seriously ill and those who suffer from schizophrenia and such. I don't think you can villify all psychiatric drugs, but something like Adderall(sp?)? Fuck you're giving speed to little children who aren't well-behaved. There are most definitely different brain types structurally and different chemical balances and the thought at the moment seems to say that people who don't want to work hard or can't pay attention are not desirable personality traits and we can fix them with medication. Well speed does perk you up a bit make you more focused. This current debacle is really telling of how the law is geared not towards prevention of drug use, but drug use for pleasure or recreation or what they feel is bull-shit religious excuses. Man that 17 year old kid was charged with a felony, but some kid takes it every day for some medical reason. I was on Effexor for a while and coming off that made me feel worse than any drug I've experienced. Psych drugs are drugs like any other, but people cannot see that there are thousands of drugs at thousands of different levels of danger. People know a couple drugs and don't want to learn more about other drugs. The whole vibe of drugs is fear. Every news story, most politicians' platforms, little kids growing up being told that someone who tries to give you drugs isn't your friend. That's scary when you're little! We all now know that isn't true at all, but… It's easy for people to stay afraid and blame unrelated problems on drugs. Something that can apparently be controlled. With more prison and penalties. I do look forward to it coming down in the distant future, but I'm afraid I barely will be able to enjoy it before I kiss Madre Terra goodnight.

Peace,
PL
 
WSB15 said:
The problem is in the DSM-IV criteria...much too general and vague, and doesn't include a lot of the related symptomology. It's not exclusive enough..."has difficulty paying attention"? What young boy doesn't...

No, there's nothing wrong with the test, but anyone who knows testing knows psych tests are considered good with .3 r values, which is estimated to have 7-11% of the "factor" explained, and you use regular observational therapy for at least 6 months before diagnoses (unless they are in obvious problematic situations, like constant panic attacks or possible brain damage etc) along with multiple other types of testing, paper based, multiple kinds, lots of other stuff.

It's hard to blame the test, just the doctors--the psychologist and psychiatrist should BOTH have to sign off on the same prescription for one thing, and other opinions should be brought in.

Really, we should stop trusting one or two doctors to make our decision for us.
 
WSB15… I think the problem is that people are saying that people with ADD have something "wrong" with their brain. When do we say something is wrong with the brain? When the condition is harmful to the person's well-being? Or is it when that type of brain doesn't lead to productivity? Or just an aberration from what is common? I don't have an answer. The brain is really the most complex system we deal with and to assume that making a new chemical balance is making a good chemical balance is silly. There's been reports on SSRI's efficacy in studies and they are dismal.

Back to ADD though… the road harder traveled in the long run is the easiest road. I've learned from my experiences and am better for it. Drugs really are the easy way and if something is unbearably painful or harmful then Go Drugs! But if not I'd urge people to think about it long term. Don't be afraid and don't be dependent. Two terrible qualities to have if you want a good life IMHO.

Peace,
PL
 
well im one of the 9.3% of year 12 males on prescribed stimulants.
what there saying is true, when i got it prescribed i didnt think of it as a drug and just something to calm me down(4 year ago) but now i realise how bad it is. my friends ask me for some to study and up until 6 months ago i would give it to them but now that i realise how bad it is i dont give it to them. not coz im a stingy bastard but because it is very bad.
The thing about how it leads to other drugs and drinking is true. if i want to study after school then i cant get to sleep untill very late and you get so bored on the comedown that i try find some weed or grog to take my mind off it.
ritalin and other adhd meds work wonders for concerntation and hyperactivity but also has alot of down sides.

on a lighter note:
everyone should download/hire/watch the southpark episode when everyone get prescribed ritalin. they go over the top but still very funny. to test for adhd they read a book for 10 hours and then ask what colour shirt they wore on a page and when they dont remeber they all get diagnosed with adhd and put on rit. haha
 
I can't belive the total shit I am reading on this thread. Nothing personal but when you ask for special consideration from your boss for your repeated fucking up of a simple task because of your "ADHD" and they look at you like your a lieing piece of shit, like your lazy,...even when you provide medical proof...
I blame Dr Peter Breggen and the people who propagate his views, which are, shit.
He has zero credability, experience, intergrity.

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/breggin.html

People should consider giving themselves, I dunno, ANY education on ritalin and ADHD before talking.

Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritalin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD

It is worth noting that Ritalin has been used since the early 50's and has been more comprehensively studied than ANY other drug in history.

ADHD has been discribed in medical literiture for over 100 years when in 1902 the English pediatrician George Still described a condition analogous to ADHD which he regarded it as innate and not caused by the environment.

Dr Danial Amen has shown through his pioneering brain imiging work the biological proof of ADHD and its several subtypes and the difference that treatment with psychostimulants brings about

http://www.amenclinic.com/bp/atlas/ch12.php

^^^
Read it
 
WSB15 said:
^^^there isn't any standardized "test" you take to get diagnosed with Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. I was referring to the diagnostic criteria used by most psychiatrists found in the DSM-IV-TR (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) which you can find here:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm



I just started taking a course in Research Methods, and i'm a bit confused by what you're saying-"psych tests are considered good with .3 r values"...an r-value, as in Pearson's Correlation Coefficient? (r) expresses the strength of the relationship between 2 variables, an it is used in Correlational Research, so I'm not sure what this has to do with "psych tests". You are right that r=.30 is considered a moderately strong correlation. When you say "7-11% of the factor explained" are you talking about 7-11% of the total variance is systematic variance (the effect size)?

And what do you mean by "observational therapy"...? Most psychiatric patients do not wait 6 months before a diagnosis is made unless there is some sort of uncertainty.


r values are also used for validity measurements---as in the correlation between the (empirically determined) construct and the test---and factor analysis can be estimated by squaring r to get a percentage value.
And I'm not comparing studies so effect size is irrelevant.
And psych patients SHOULD wait 6 months before taking drugs---it just makes sense because some symptoms can be temporary (like ADHD, depression symptoms) and there should be an observation of them before masking them with drugs you're not sure of using

And really what I'm saying is don't blame the test--multiple different sorts of tests that are found to be measuring psychopathologies should be used, ALONG WITH many therapy sessions and self reports and a hundred other things

It's just that psych people like me get a bad name cuz some idiot doc doesnt use the test manual.
 
streetsurfer said:
I can't belive the total shit I am reading on this thread. Nothing personal but when you ask for special consideration from your boss for your repeated fucking up of a simple task because of your "ADHD" and they look at you like your a lieing piece of shit, like your lazy,...even when you provide medical proof...
I blame Dr Peter Breggen and the people who propagate his views, which are, shit.
He has zero credability, experience, intergrity.

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/breggin.html

People should consider giving themselves, I dunno, ANY education on ritalin and ADHD before talking.

Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritalin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADHD

It is worth noting that Ritalin has been used since the early 50's and has been more comprehensively studied than ANY other drug in history.

ADHD has been discribed in medical literiture for over 100 years when in 1902 the English pediatrician George Still described a condition analogous to ADHD which he regarded it as innate and not caused by the environment.

Dr Danial Amen has shown through his pioneering brain imiging work the biological proof of ADHD and its several subtypes and the difference that treatment with psychostimulants brings about

http://www.amenclinic.com/bp/atlas/ch12.php

^^^
Read it

I have neither the time nor patience to enter this debate but don't quote Wikipedia as an authority or source of information because it's an open forum for information so any dip-shit can add an entry. That's not to say that the information contained within can't be accurate and useful, but treat it with scepticism and I certainly wouldnt use it as an authority.

In fact, in the small amount of time that I have i'll add my 2 cents. Yes ADHD medication may be effective in some, but it's widely over-prescribed because of huge kickbacks given to the FDA from the large transnational pharmaceutical corporations. It just seems like a grand hypocrisy to be peddling amphetamines to children and adults under the veil of legitimacy when the condition is clearly over-diagnosed and what they're doing is no different to clandestine amphetamine traffickers/distributers who are prosecuted under the same laws. You either regulate the amphetamine market in its entirity or you launch another investigation into FDA and filter out all those unscrupulous characters who are legitimising this practice. It's just a huge double standard. I do believe ADHD exists, I also believe however that doctors in the US in particular are either lazy or negligent in handing out so many scripts.
Peace
 
comf0rtably numb
Yes ADHD medication may be effective in some, but it's widely over-prescribed because of huge kickbacks given to the FDA from the large transnational pharmaceutical corporations.

How does the FDA receive kickbacks from ADHD medication?
 
Prescribing of hyperactivity drugs is out of control

Prescribing of hyperactivity drugs is out of control
01 April 2006
NewScientist.com news service
Peter Aldhous


THE figures are mind-boggling. Nearly 4 million Americans, most of them children and young adults, are being prescribed amphetamine-like stimulants to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). Up to a million more may be taking the drugs illegally.

Now, amid reports of rare but serious side effects, leading researchers and doctors are calling for a review of the way ADHD is dealt with. Many prescriptions are being written by family doctors with little expertise in diagnosing ADHD, raising doubts about how many people on these stimulants really need them. Just as worrying, large numbers of children who do have ADHD are going undiagnosed.

Both trends could lead to problems with drug dependency, argue specialists in addiction. "There has to be a re-evaluation and reassessment of the extent to which there is proper prescription," says Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse in Bethesda, Maryland.

Last week, the debate intensified, following two meetings of advisers to the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). First, the agency's Pediatric Advisory Committee suggested that parents and doctors should be warned about the risk of ADHD drugs triggering hallucinations. This followed a review of evidence of the drugs' psychiatric side effects, including disturbing hallucinations often involving worms, snakes or insects, experienced by up to 5 per cent of children taking the drugs. In February, a separate FDA panel recommended that they should carry the most prominent type of safety warning, following 25 reports of sudden deaths from heart problems (New Scientist, 18 February, p 7).

Another FDA committee last week voted to delay an application for a drug previously used to treat sleep disorders to be marketed for ADHD. The drug, modafinil, has less potential for abuse and addiction, but the FDA's Psychopharmacologic Drugs Advisory Committee wants to see more evidence proving its safety before backing the application (see "Alternative treatments for ADHD").

Stimulants such as methylphenidate, marketed by Novartis as Ritalin, have been used to treat ADHD for decades. As well as increasing arousal and heart rate, the drugs allow people who have difficulty concentrating to focus on tasks more effectively. Their use has exploded in recent years, especially in the US, where prescription rates are several times higher than across most of the developed world - in part because US doctors tend to use a broader definition of the condition.

Psychiatrists stress that side effects are rare, and say that the drugs have helped millions of people who would otherwise have had huge problems focusing at school and work. "These are some of the most effective treatments that we have in psychiatry," says Chris Kratochvil of the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha.

To diagnose ADHD reliably, a psychiatrist would ideally observe a child for several hours, checking their behaviour against a list of symptoms relating to activity and ability to concentrate. But in many cases, family doctors are prescribing the drugs after just a few minutes of consultation, based largely on evidence of boisterousness.

Doctors are under growing pressure from children and their parents to prescribe the drugs, as many believe that stimulants will help them get better school grades. "I have a colleague whose son was mobbed by friends wanting prescriptions," says Scott Kollins, a child psychologist at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina.
“Doctors are under growing pressure to prescribe the drugs, as many believe they will help deliver better school grades”

This demand is also fuelling an illegal trade. Findings published last month indicate that in 2002 more than 750,000 Americans aged 12 and over were taking the stimulants without medical supervision (Drug and Alcohol Dependence, DOI: 10.1016/j.drugalcdep.2005.12.011). Some may have been using the drugs for a traditional "high", or to keep going during all-night parties. But Larry Kroutil of RTI International in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina, who led the study, suspects that much of the illegal use is by children and young adults taking the drugs as study aids. In some cases, they are being bought by parents from illicit websites that do not ask for evidence of a prescription. "We need to look more at how people are getting these drugs, and why," Kroutil says.

Members of the FDA's Drug Safety and Risk Management Advisory Committee, which recommended the prominent safety warning on heart risks, say that they were motivated in part by concerns that many people who do not have ADHD are taking the stimulants. "It has been clear that the drugs are overused," says Peter Gross of Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey, who chairs the committee.

The American Psychiatric Association argues that the picture is more complex. "Yes, there is overprescribing," says Jason Young, the association's communications manager. "But there is also underprescribing." Among poorer sections of the US population, and particularly in minority groups such as African Americans and Hispanics, ADHD is believed to be widely underdiagnosed.

Volkow is worried that underprescription of stimulants could lead to problems with drug abuse. Children with ADHD who are not given stimulant drugs are more likely to develop problems with drug abuse and dependency than those who are, perhaps because they have to turn to illegal stimulants on which they can become hooked to get relief from their symptoms. So improving diagnosis and treatment among people with poor access to mental health services is important, Volkow argues.

Meanwhile, the long-term effects of giving prescription stimulants to healthy people remain largely unknown. Kroutil's team asked illicit users whether the drugs were interfering with various aspects of their lives. On this basis, the researchers estimated that about 10 per cent were having problems with dependency.

Volkow fears that problems with dependency may be more widespread. There are also hints that taking stimulants may lead to abuse of other drugs. Some studies suggest that exposing juvenile animals to stimulants makes them less likely to self-administer drugs such as cocaine when they are offered the drugs as adults, but other studies indicate the opposite. What is needed, says Volkow, are long-term follow-up studies on people who do not have ADHD and who have taken stimulants such as methylphenidate. In the meantime, she wants medical associations to take a stronger lead in educating doctors about the proper diagnosis and treatment of ADHD.

William Carlezon of Harvard Medical School agrees. He has studied the drugs' effects in animals and believes that they do have some lasting effect on the brain, even if its exact nature is not yet known. "Stimulant drugs leave molecular signatures on the brain, and we have to be very careful," he says. "Diagnosis needs to be taken less lightly."

Graphic: Rise in ADHD?

Link: http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/mg19025452.700.html
(Subscription required)

Editorial: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg19025451.800.html
(Subscription required)



Mods ~ If you feel it appropriate, this post could be merged with: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=246535
 
This is the editorial from the same issue of new scientist


Hidden dangers of failure to diagnose ADHD correctly
01 April 2006
NewScientist.com news service



IT SOUNDS like a mad idea, but it works. Take children who are unruly and unable to focus on their schoolwork, and give them amphetamine-like stimulants. Far from making them bounce off the walls, the drugs can turn little terrors into attentive students.

However, the idea of prescribing drugs related to addictive illegal stimulants has always caused concern - all the more so given the escalation in diagnoses of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), the condition the drugs are supposed to treat. Now reports are coming in of serious adverse reactions, including hallucinations and, in rare suspected cases, sudden death from cardiovascular problems (see "Hyperactivity drugs are out of control").

For the benefit of concerned parents, it is important to put the risks and benefits into context. ADHD is a socially and educationally debilitating condition, and places children at higher risk of serious accidents. The success of stimulants such as methylphenidate in treating ADHD is unprecedented in psychiatry. Unlike antidepressants, which work well in only about half of those who take them, methylphenidate is highly effective in most children and young adults with ADHD. Against these benefits, we now have 25 cases of sudden death from heart problems, and reports of hallucinations in up to 5 per cent of those taking the drugs.

These adverse events certainly need further investigation, and merit changes to the drugs' labelling so that doctors and patients can see the risks. Yet on existing evidence, the drugs should not be demonised. Instead, we should make sure that they are only given to children who actually have ADHD, because that is where the main problem lies. Proper diagnosis requires extensive behavioural observation, ideally in different contexts. Some kids are unfocused and unruly at home, yet can buckle down at school with a good teacher. Medicating kids because of bad parenting is a bad idea.

Some 10 per cent of 12-year-old boys in the US, where diagnosis of ADHD is more common than in most other countries, are being treated for the condition. The true incidence of the disease may well be very high, but these figures conceal widespread misdiagnosis. Many children who do not have ADHD are prescribed the drugs after woefully short consultations, often by family doctors under pressure from parents who want their children to compete in the classroom. Yet other youngsters who have ADHD are not getting the treatment they need.

This in microcosm is what is wrong with the US healthcare system, which tends to over-medicate those who have health insurance, leaving the rest to make do with healthcare that would embarrass some developing countries. Even so, the situation with ADHD is particularly worrying, as both over-medication and under-medication could lead to future drug dependency. Children with untreated ADHD are known to be at greater risk of later drug abuse than those on medication. The impact of giving stimulants to healthy kids is unknown, and difficult to study. Despite efforts by manufacturers to formulate pills to release their active ingredient slowly, minimising their addictive potential, the fear remains that today's prescribing practice may be priming millions of children for drug-dependency problems.

In this context, the decision last week by advisers to the US Food and Drug Administration not to back an application to market a drug for ADHD called modafinil has caused some disappointment. Modafinil should not be addictive, but the FDA's advisers were concerned about a case of a serious skin condition in a clinical trial, and have asked for further studies. The FDA advisory panel's caution is appropriate. Yes, we need other drugs to treat ADHD. But first we must be sure they are safe, and are only given to children who really need them.

From issue 2545 of New Scientist magazine, 01 April 2006, page 5
 
Doesn't the exact same sort of thing happen with SSRI's? I've heard that doctors get certain benefits from the pharm company for prescribing say 6 months of brand x ssri. Sorry if this has been mentioned, don't have the time to read through it at the moment
 
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