• N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

A Second Look at MAOI's?

I take tranylcypromine and it's been by far the best medication I have ever taken, especially for fatigue and motivational aspects of my depression.
doxylamine, Oct 12, 2017, https://www.bluelight.org/community...combined-with-selegiline.825910/post-14157343

The neuroprotective aspect is pretty cool. I admittedly don't know much about that and should look into it more. I don't know how selective it is for the B isoform of MAO. I suspect it is not hugely clinically significant as it is typically characterised as unselective. Moclobemide is considered selective for MAO-A but actually inhibits MAO-B by 20-30% from memory so it would stand to reason any MAO-B selectivity in the case of Tranylcypromine is significantly less than this, considering how it is classified. Just my theory at least, hope it made sense (I had a lot of pregabalin last night). Tranylcypromine is also a dopamine releasing agent, just like amphetamine though less potent (1/10 I believe), in addition to its MAO inhibition.

Delving into the positive aspects for me, I have experienced an markedly increased tolerance for stress with things like work - when things get crazy at my job (phlebotomy) I am totally unfazed. I couldn't believe how strong this effect is as I am usually someone highly negatively affected mentally by stress. There is a noticeable stimulant effect, though mild, but unlike amphetamine or meth (in my opinion), there is a motivational push behind it. On day 2 I started working out and returned to eating vegan, meal prepping everyday. It's really allowing me to just push through life getting done what I need and want to do. It makes me feel as young, energetic and happy as I should for a 24 year old. The constant fatigue, lack of motivation and every other aspect of my depression and anxiety that has weighed me down for the last 10 years and really hindered my ability to move about the world in the way that I want has all lifted. The noticeable part of the stimulant effect, in the sense of a buzz, has gone away so there is some tolerance there I suppose, but I would still say it stimulates me in that I feel like I have a normal energy level that I can't remember having since being in my teens.

The main side effect for me is insomnia, some nights are really hard to fall asleep. I have always struggled with this to an extent though so I don't know how much of it really is the Tranylcypromine. I do get occasional low diastolic blood pressure which can make me feel a bit faint for a few seconds when I stand up, nothing like the severe orthostatic hypotension some speak of. Also I do experience a slight drop in my mood and energy (comparable to a caffeine crash in severity) in the afternoon if I take it all in the morning without a midday dose. I suspect this is due to the dopamine releasing effect wearing off throughout the day. All in all, side effects are pretty minimal and can be attenuated. The diet is also not as hard as it seems just looking at it. I still eat soy sauce, vegemite, protein powder, tempeh, miso soup, kimchi, sauerkraut, fake meats, all the beans and nuts I want, drink wine and kefir. Nothing has spiked my blood pressure. That being said everyone taking Tranylcypromine should exercise the caution with these foods as professionally advised. Everyone's tyramine sensitivity is different so people should experiment with tiny amounts first and monitor their blood pressure for the next 2 hours to see if there is a rise.

All in all, it's been great for me. It's the only antidepressant that has really attenuated my symptoms to the degree that I can focus on real life self improvement. The demonisation of the drug is unwarranted in my opinion. It's really not as dangerous or difficult to use as people make it out to be. Sure, I can't take MDMA or other stimulants anymore, but that is probably for the better. I can still at least use LSD and nitrous which are and always have been my main substances of choice. I experience severe worrying headaches when I smoke any amount of any cannabis now (and did while on high dose Moclobemide too). They are not officially contraindicated substances and I don't get a blood pressure rise from doing so, so I'm not sure I'm in any real danger when I get stoned, but the pain and anxiety (it's sent me to ER 3 times) it triggers are not worth the high for me anymore. As far as I know this is pretty unique and I've never heard of people having trouble with cannabis and MAOIs before so don't be scared off if you are thinking about MAOI therapy people! I would recommend it to anyone with depression and anxiety that has found little relief on the usual medication merrygo-round of SSRIs, SNRIs, NRIs, TCAs, TeCAs, SARIs, SMSs and so on, especially if they have significant lethargic and amotivational features.

If you have any more questions or anything you'd like me to expand on just ask :)
doxylamine, Oct 13, 2017, https://www.bluelight.org/community...combined-with-selegiline.825910/post-14158240
 
There is no way you are getting a maoi combined with a stimulant. That combo is very rarely prescribed. Usually only for very severe depression when everything else fails. It is a very dangerous combo due to maoi's interactions with stimulants.

Do you know anyone who has been prescribed that combo? Have you read comments from people who have been prescribed that combo? How many comments have you read?
 
Anybody here having experiences with methylene blue? Saw this in the pet section of the local supermarket, and it's a MAOI but the dosages used seem to vary wildly. Unfortunately no prescription MAOIs here in Mexico, not even selegiline.
 
Yes, it doesn't work for oral DMT, tried high doses of both MB and DMT and waited between the administrations.
 
Anybody here having experiences with methylene blue? Saw this in the pet section of the local supermarket, and it's a MAOI but the dosages used seem to vary wildly. Unfortunately no prescription MAOIs here in Mexico, not even selegiline.
I had my blood pressure shoot up after taking a mixture of methylene blue and ephedra tea. It took several weeks to return to baseline and I have not taken the mb since. I now am taking 2 serpina tablets a day as prophylaxis.

I only tried a small amount of phenelzine before switching to tranylcypromine.

Imo the tranylcypromine works great for the depression but the increased dopamine caused a mild psychosis.

It's true that MAOIs are great substances despite their interaction with certain foods and medications.
 
Imo the tranylcypromine works great for the depression but the increased dopamine caused a mild psychosis.

Do you feel that it has a cumulative effect? I ask because, as you know, its effect lasts beyond its lifespan in the body, i.e., up to 40 days.

After the administration of a therapeutic dose (5–10 mg), the peak plasma concentration is reached within 30–120 min; 90% is bound to plasma proteins [60,62,63]. Within 30–90 min, platelet MAO-B activity is inhibited by 90% in PD patients, indicative of rapid cellular uptake; recovery of activity requires as long as 40 days [14,64].

14. Fowler JS, Volkow ND, Logan J, Wang GJ, MacGregor RR, Schyler D, Wolf AP, Pappas N, Alexoff D, Shea C. Slow recovery of human brain MAO-B after l-deprenyl (selegiline) withdrawal. Synapse 1994;18:86–93.

64. Riederer P, Youdim MBH, Rausch WD, Birkmayer W, Jellinger K, Seemann D. On the mode of action of l-deprenyl in the human central nervous system. Journal of Neural Transmission 1978;43:217–26.


Foley P, Gerlach M, Youdim MB, Riederer P. MAO-B inhibitors: multiple roles in the therapy of neurodegenerative disorders. Parkinsonism Related Disorders, 6(1):25-47.
 
You get a definate buzz after taking the tablets but i seem to recall it was not akin to amphetamine and did not affect my appetite or sleeping.

Although it is helpful it's definately not addictive and I didn't get any withdrawal symptoms.

I only took it for about 3-4 months though and it was a long time ago so I forgot about it now.

I want to get some more but it's difficult to get access to as you have to be referred to a consultant psychiatrist and can't get it from your GP directly.

If it were available online I would order it over the internet but I can't find MAOI's in any of the online pharmacies.

I just checked and selegiline is available but costs $0.92 per 5mg which is expensive.
 
I think MOAIs were more effective antidepressants than SSRIs and SNRIs. I think dopaminergic properties of these drugs make them more predictable and more effective for a variety of mental health conditions. Nardil was a game changer for people back in the day that does not equate to today’s depression medications. Some psychiatrists will sometimes do a walk back to an MOAI lately, but it’s rare.
 
I think MOAIs were more effective antidepressants than SSRIs and SNRIs.

Most antidepressants miss key target of clinical depression, study finds. Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. 2009. ScienceDaily

A key brain protein called monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) -- is highly elevated during clinical depression yet is unaffected by treatment with commonly used antidepressants, according to an important study published in the Archives of General Psychiatry. The study has important implications for our understanding of why antidepressants don't always work.
 
Most antidepressants miss key target of clinical depression, study finds. Centre for Addiction and Mental Health. 2009. ScienceDaily

A key brain protein called monoamine oxidase A (MAO-A) -- is highly elevated during clinical depression yet is unaffected by treatment with commonly used antidepressants, according to an important study published in the Archives of General Psychiatry. The study has important implications for our understanding of why antidepressants don't always work.
I’ve always wondered (and not really actively looked in the literature) if theories about the mechanism of action of MAOIs has been or needs to be updated after all of the work on TrkB signaling in depression.

If the “modified serotonin hypothesis”, stands, where long-term increases in serotonin levels facilitates BDNF production, then nothing much needs to change. If the “direct trkb binding” theory holds, than I would be interested in seeing how and if the common MAOIs interact with trkb or if there is something mechanistically distinct going on.

Of course, I am assuming that trkb and BDNF are truly master regulators of depression, and upstream targets of all forms of depression. This may be incorrect, and an oversimplification because I desire such things.
 
You should run that by Ken Gillman, an MAOI specialist who enjoys reading and publishing papers and who replies to emails and comments on his YouTube channel. I actually posted my above post on one of his vids:

Find out why YOU need dopamine and why MAOIs are essential. @psychotropicalresearch5653, 2020-06-22, YouTube

Just note that lengthy comments tend to be shadow-deleted on YouTube (because their hyperactive spam filter assumes them to be spam).
 
I have extensive experience of using monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) drugs (phenelzine, Nardil; tranylcypromine, Parnate; isocarboxazid, Marplan, and now the successor to selegiline, rasagiline, Azilect). These drugs are somewhat maligned and reduced knowledge and awareness of them makes many doctors shy away from using them when they would be efficacious, and sometimes lifesaving. There are several interesting stories relating to this on my website, particularly that of the famous Professor who wrote a psychopharmacology book saying they were dangerous and ineffective. He became seriously depressed himself, and after three years of unremitting illness was only made well after he was given tranylcypromine. He re-wrote his book!

From a letter that Ken Gillman wrote for people to show to their psychiatrists or NPs.
 
Lengthy post I just made that challenges the consensus risk assessment of MAOIs: https://www.bluelight.org/community/threads/5-meo-dmt-similarity-to-dmt.945031/post-16248836

Quote from the above-mentioned doctor:

I do indeed prescribe the MAO inhibiting medication’s. I find them to be very very effective for certain conditions. I studied with two luminaries in the field of MAO medication‘s at Columbia. I feel very comfortable prescribing them. (Aaron Krasner, M.D., Apr 8 2025)
 
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Alright well I am still alive, so I'll bump this thread

I was on a steady dose of 60mg phenelzine and took 75mg MDMA with a 35mg redose and rolled pretty good, did not throw up or experience any extreme heat or appear to have even come close to serotonin syndrome.

2 weeks after that I tried 10mg 2cb and it was pretty weak (to be expected), felt like 15mg just extended

A week after I tried 20mg 2cb and it hit pretty hard, felt like at least 30mg and lasted a long time

On an unrelated note I'm not taking phenelzine anymore and have no more plans on attempting to mix MAOI's to potentiate Phenylamines, but it was a fun little experiment and it does work provided you adjust dosages to account for the MAOI, as the dose is always going to be the thing that makes it dangerous or not

To be clear I am NOT recommending anyone to try this, it is dangerous to mix MAOI's and MDMA and people have died doing it, taking normal doses of MDMA and end up with SS.

Cheers
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TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-16, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29189984#29189984

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I just recently started using TCP, I'm on my 4th day and I've had a lot more energy and strangely enough my libido has been off the charts, something that was the exact opposite of phenelzine. I have not combined any drug with TCP yet, I was just mentioning all the various MAOI's I've tried as they all have had a very unique kind of feeling to them. I will know more about TCP in a month or two when it's effect will peak. Let me know how your TCP experience goes as well.

As far as phenelzine and MDMA goes, the experience was much longer than normal, a normal roll for me is about 6 hours or so and that's with a redose. I felt the effects of MDMA for another 2 hours extra or so.

My normal dose for MDMA is typically 150-175mg MDMA with a 75mg redose and it's probably a 6 hour experience.

With 60mg phenelzine and MDMA, I had used 75mg with a ~35mg redose and it was about the same in terms of intensity, but the intensity was prolonged and going back to sobriety felt more gradual. About a 8 hour experience. I did not experience any comedown of the sort, but I normally never do as long as I keep my doses low and spread out my use. I will note that I normally get sexual/horny off MDMA and well, there certainly was none of that, but phenelzine absolutely tanked my libido.

MDMA itself has MAOI-A properties, as well as being a triple monoamine releaser and reuptake inhibitor which is why it's so incredibly dangerous to mix it with a MAOI, but as always, the dose makes the poison. I actually pondered the idea after reading Dr. Gillman stating that the most relevant point of contention would be the dosing level in terms of using MAOI's with things ill advised. He was right, I went over every possible MDMA toxicity combination with MAOI and they were all using normal or higher doses.

I went in with the notion that MDMA already has MAOI properties, tuning the dose down and using less and introducing a MAOI would allow MDMA to persist longer, release a lesser amount at a time but retain more due to the MAOI/Reuptake inhibition.

I had a great time and I'm not dead. I call that a win.
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TrancedOutBrah, 2025-04-19, https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29193409#29193409
 
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Pharmahuasca using Parnate is great. I just made this post on The Shroomery:

Pharmahuasca is quite similar to mushrooms. Psilocybin is 4-PO-DMT; pharmahuasca is DMT w/ an MAOI to make it orally active. Unlike mushrooms, however, there is no tolerance build up w/ low dose DMT; it's cool how you can just keep easily dipping into the mindstate.

The most common form of pharmahuasca is moclobemide + DMT, but I don't recommend using moclobemide.

I have also utilised pharmaceutical MAO-inhibitors like moclobemide, prescribed for depression, but came to feel they were not as beneficial as rue or ayahuasca vine. Most people who took them noticed a strange chemical feeling, and the experiences they provided were good, but after a time I came back to Syrian rue and ayahuasca vine, as the experiences they engendered were richer and seemed more useful to me.

Articulations: On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics. Julian Palmer. 2014. Anastomosis Books. ISBN 9780992552817. 4. Ayahuasca / The Religion of Ayahuasca

I recognise that chemical feeling, described here. I'm going to look into sourcing pirlindole

talk_to_yourself, 2024-05-17, reddit

Moclobemide also doesn't last long and only allows for a short experience.


Last week I received a prescription for the MAOI, Parnate. Not only is Parnate considered to be a good antidepressant, it's also known for having little to no side effects, for example:

"Little adverse effect on sexual function (possible benefit from dopaminergic action)" (Gillman 2011*)

This may be because Parnate is similar to a chemical in our bodies, beta-phenethylamine. It's actually more similar to amphetamine; amphetamine is short for alpha-methyl-phenethylamine. But don't worry, it's like amphetamine with a strait jacket on; it does not release that much dopamine no matter how much you take. In spite of the massive dopamine depletion from abuse, amphetamine has a very clean initial effect; Parnate is amphetamine with a speed limit, so it's a nice, clean effect without the abuse potential. Pirlindole, mentioned above, is structurally similar to serotonin; both chems are classified as indoles.

amphetamine ‖ phenylpropanamine
Parnate ‖ phenylcyclopropanamine

Parnate is an irreversible MAOI, which means that the effect cannot be reversed. Reversible MAOIs have a safety valve, you could say; if an excess of tyramine is ingested, the MAOI is knocked off the receptors allowing the body to dispose of tyramine, which is a poison. The body loses this capability for ~2 weeks after ingestion of an irreversible MAOI because irreversibles work by poisoning the MAO enzymes. Aside from preventing defense against tyramine, which is rarely found in substantial amounts, MAOIs don't elicit that much risk, except for eliciting a sensitivity to serotonin and noradrenaline boosters. So, for Parnate, you do need to follow the MAOI diet and avoid certain drugs for a period of time (technically, low doses of those drugs are acceptable), but chances are you follow the diet anyway and chances are you don't use those drugs on a routine basis (e.g., MDMA). More info about the diet: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28975082

So, Parnate enables a nice, clean oral DMT experience with a mild speedy effect and feeling of mood stabilization. It's one of the coolest effects I've ever experienced.

I'm gonna see about mail ordering some from a foreign chemical supplier so I have unlimited access to it. Another prospect is clorgiline. It's an MAO-A only irreversible inhibitor and it too resembles amphetamine and it's, like, the most common MAOI used in scientific research, so it should be easy to find a source, and unlike Parnate, it is not a prescription, so it's perfectly legal to buy it.

It should also be noted that harmalas, the traditional ayahuasca MAOIs, have somewhat of a psychedelic effect on their own and are healthy for you, i.e., they've been found to elicit neurogenesis. But I don't like the way they make me feel, except in low doses, so I could see myself using Parnate to activate the DMT and adding a bit of harmala(s) to flavor the experience, which should be safe.** Actually, I do like the way B. caapi tea feels, but B. caapi is expensive and it doesn't taste good. I'm curious about 6-MeO-harmalan.

More info about harmalas: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/29131910


*Gillman P. K. 2011. Advances pertaining to the pharmacology and interactions of irreversible nonselective monoamine oxidase inhibitors. Journal of clinical psychopharmacology, 31(1), 66–74. DOI: 10.1097/JCP.0b013e31820469ea. Table 1, p. 4


**reddit
 
fuck all that. RIMAS are where it's at. ayahuasca vine FTW
RIMAs like syrian rue when used properly can be one of the most potent drug enhancers on planet Earth without so much danger.. I wont mention some of the combinations ive done but they were out there. Generally the ones that are seen as most dangerous to combine with traditional MAOIs become an out-of-this-world experience with RIMAs and I can personally attest to this heavily.. but it's tipping a dangerous line. I remember having a breakthrough that lasted over an hour with inhaled DMT and a megadose of syrian rue somewhere along 10-20g. To this day it affects me still.
 
I wont mention some of the combinations ive done but they were out there.

I'm studying this particular topic; this is a recent thread of mine: Using MDMA as a substitute for DMT in ayahuasca

Please contribute.

RIMAs like syrian rue when used properly can be one of the most potent drug enhancers on planet Earth

For what it's worth, ChatGPT said that harmalas are stronger MAOIs than moclobemide, although going by what Ken Gillman has said, that's not saying much.*

I don't like the way harmalas feel; they have such a dirty feel. I'm hoping 6-MeO-harmalan has a nicer effect.


*It is regrettable that other similar MAO-A selective drugs developed as prospective ADs never made the cut and have never been widely or extensively used in clinical practice. It is particularly regrettable because a couple of them were more potent than moclobemide, which is so weak as to be of doubtful utility — even in overdose it cannot do anyone any harm.

23. Dopamine elevation MAO-A, B or both? Ken Gillman, MD, PsychoTropical Research, 2022, 2024
 
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