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A Second Look at MAOI's?

Supermex

Supermex

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MAOI's were pretty much abandoned for the treatment of depression many years ago, due in large part to some side-effects related to interactions with some specific chemicals found in some foods (notably -strong cheeses), and perhaps due in part to clear the way for the promotion of SSRI's ?

There seems to be a current interest among some doctors to re-visit MAOI's, the view being that their side-effects were overhyped - as were the claims for SSRI's! I've had problems with depression for decades and had very limited benefit from anti-depressants, the one exception being "six months of bliss with fluoxetine" which faded and could never be re-created. Anyway, I'm just about to try out an MAOI, and noting that the forum doesn't include very many posts referring to them (I'm new to the forum and might have missed something :? ) wonder if anyone has recently been down this route?

S
 
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Selegiline worked very well for me. The only problem was sleep and over-stimulation (which wasn't too bad anyways). I'd recommend asking your doctor about it. That's the only MAOI I've tried. They should be very effective for depression treatment that doesn't respond to anything else.
 
The tryptamine response wich requires you to go on a diet can be blocked with NRIs
Reboxetine prevents the tranylcypromine-induced
increase in tyramine levels in rat heart
by
Dostert P, Castelli MG, Cicioni P, Strolin Benedetti M
Farmitalia Carlo Erba,
Research and Development,
Erbamont Group, Milan, Italy.
J Neural Transm Suppl 1994; 41:149-53

ABSTRACT

This study aimed to examine whether the increase in heart radioactivity levels after intravenous injection of 14C-tyramine to rats pretreated with the irreversible MAO inhibitor tranylcypromine could be antagonized by reboxetine, a potent and selective noradrenaline uptake blocker. Reboxetine was found totally to abolish the effect of tranylcypromine. Heart radioactivity levels after reboxetine and tranylcypromine were very similar to those found when tyramine was injected after reboxetine only. These results suggest that reboxetine might be advantageously combined with tranylcypromine, or any MAO inhibitor, in depressed patients unresponsive of either treatment given alone.
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NRis should also reverse the hypotension.
 
Adding mirtazapine would block the risk of serotonin syndrome when taking releasers like mdma while also still allowing the recreational effects (based on my experience with just mirtazapine).
 
You could try selective MAO-B inhibitors, raising solely dopamine levels, personally I think this would work a lot better than non-selective MAOI's as I don't really think serotonin imbalance is what causes depression (in my case anyway). Of course there's always BPAP which just increases the amount of neurotransmitters when normally released instead of inhibiting the metabolism of them or actually causing release of them (it's pretty unique in pharmacology actually, along with PPAP, though PPAP is more selective to catecholamines than serotonin). However it's quite expensive and fairly rare (in fact I can't find the source for it any more (not because it's gone, just lost amongst my bookmarks!)).

Also IMO seligeline and rasagiline, being irreversible, worry me a bit due to my own poly drug use. However if you don't mind taking a break from the ones which interact with it, then it's a wonderful material.
 
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Combining a MAOI with mirtazepine would be very, very dangerous IMO, as its an alpha2 adrenoreceptor antagonist, like yohimbine for example, which leads to release of (nor)adrenaline. It isn't just serotonergics that are dangerous with MAOIs, tyramine itself isn't one, but an adrenergic pressor.
 
may i strongly nominate banisteriopsis caapi, alicia anisopetala or another harmala containing plant? They've worked wonders for me
 
Hey Supermex-

MAOI's were not only "strong cheese"-- they were contraindicated with so many meds, and caused much sedation, and other factors. The SSRI's usually work for some, but if you found that Prozac worked 'for two weeks" then waned...you might want to try a SNRI--Like Effexor. Works a little different, and when it works, it works well.
 
Cole J, Bodkin A. MAO inhibitors: An option worth trying in treatment-resistant cases. Current Psychiatry, Vol. 1, No. 6, June 2002

MAO Inhibtors: Risks, benefits, and lore. Wimbiscus, Molly MD; Olga Kostenk, MD; Donald Malone, MD. Cleveland Clinic Journal of Medicine, vol. 77, no. 12, Dec 2010

Most Antidepressants Miss Key Target of Clinical Depression. William Harryman, Dec 9, 2009. integral-options.blogspot.com


Big interest in MAOIs on Social Anxiety Support.

Nardil questions? contact me

A Remarkable Compound: Nardil Notes and Observations


Supermex said:
There seems to be a current interest among some doctors to re-visit MAOI's, the view being that their side-effects were overhyped - as were the claims for SSRI's!
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Indeed.


Can I still get drunk on it and eat pepperoni pizza?
Yes.
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/1072244025-post515.html (05-02-2014)


I drink beer on Nardil all the time. 4 is the most I've ever had and I've never once had a sneaking suspicion that I was putting myself in danger.
http://www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/651105-post7.html (08-09-2008)


hWP3Na9.gif


Source: Second article in this post.
 
Windsor said:
Hey Supermex-

MAOI's were not only "strong cheese"-- they were contraindicated with so many meds, and caused much sedation, and other factors. The SSRI's usually work for some, but if you found that Prozac worked 'for two weeks" then waned...you might want to try a SNRI--Like Effexor. Works a little different, and when it works, it works well.
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Yep, I'm on Effexor now. Having started taking anti-depressants around about 1994, I now find that I seem to be immune to all of them; no good effects and no bad effects. Prozac worked brilliantly for about 6 month, was revived briefly when olanzapine was added, but other than that, the various drugs I've tried in recent years just bounce off me.
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
Combining a MAOI with mirtazepine would be very, very dangerous IMO, as its an alpha2 adrenoreceptor antagonist, like yohimbine for example, which leads to release of (nor)adrenaline. It isn't just serotonergics that are dangerous with MAOIs, tyramine itself isn't one, but an adrenergic pressor.
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I don't think its that strong to be dangerous, a friend of me took nardil with mirtazepine and was fFine.

Cyproheptadine is another option to protect yourself from serosyndrome when taking drugs on Maois
 
Mirtazepine, if it interacts, won't do so via 5HT, but via noradrenaline release.
Mirtazepine on its own, was enough to cause akathisia when I got put on the stuff, I just about wanted to die. Horrible fucking stuff.
 
What about other shit like soya products, avocado, yeast extract spreads, etc.? Will they only be a prob if you go above MAO selectivity, i.e 10mg ?
 
fuck all that. RIMAS are where it's at. ayahuasca vine FTW
 
cdin said:
fuck all that. RIMAS are where it's at. ayahuasca vine FTW
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I said this on socialanxietysupport.com, a forum where the MAOI, Nardil, is very popular, and one of the members said that Nardil is way more powerful as an antidepressant than is harmine & harmaline, the two MAOIs found in ayahuasca vine and P. harmala. Interested to hear NaPD Bluelighters thoughts on this. The person admitted that he was just speculating and that he's never given harm– a fair trial.
 
Limpet_Chicken said:
Mirtazepine, if it interacts, won't do so via 5HT, but via noradrenaline release.
Mirtazepine on its own, was enough to cause akathisia when I got put on the stuff, I just about wanted to die. Horrible fucking stuff.
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Second that (only the horrible part, not the akathisia thank fuck). Admittedly I only took Mirtazon maybe twice, roughly 9 years ago. The only thing that has come as close to giving me a zombie hangover the next day is a LOT of promethazine or clonazepam. At least with prometh, the nod is somewhat enjoyable in the moment, and clonazepam was as enjoyable a benzo as I have had. Mirtazon didn't make me feel anything but extraterrestrial the next day.
Ho-Chi-Minh said:
Selegiline worked very well for me. The only problem was sleep and over-stimulation (which wasn't too bad anyways). I'd recommend asking your doctor about it. That's the only MAOI I've tried. They should be very effective for depression treatment that doesn't respond to anything else.
Click to expand...
I am on the second day of Selegiline, and although I know its full effect isn't reached until 10 days, this is the only thing besides dexamphetamine that has worked for depression I have had since 2002. 10mg is below a stimulatory level for me, it seems.
ebola? said:
guise: should i stop eating a kg of cheese in 30 minutes?


ebola
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Kilos of cheese are fine! You have to eat cheese measured in imperial units to develop any hypertensive symptoms...brb time for my Nardil and Pinot. JK Rowling.
 
gearjammer said:
I am on the second day of Selegiline, and although I know its full effect isn't reached until 10 days, this is the only thing besides dexamphetamine that has worked for depression I have had since 2002. 10mg is below a stimulatory level for me, it seems.
Click to expand...

As someone who's taken selegiline in the short term in very high doses, I know that that's the placebo effect.
 
seriously, ayahuasca works great. It's very pleasant and grounding. excellent novel anti-depressant
 
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