(4-ho-MiPT-10mg)+(4-ho-DiPT-10mg)+(DPT)+(DMT) - experienced: Tripped out of existence

[progressive]

Hmmm... Thanks so much for sharing! It's cool that this report inspired you, but I am sorry to hear that you had that issue. I didn't get the issues with focusing my eyes.. Did you feel like your eyes were only having trouble focusing after adding the extra 6mgs, or from the beginning? I am curious about your CEVs and how they were different... mine were different from those of each substance alone as well. The feeling I got with both was like.. entirely otherworldly and everything took on entirely new meaning. Not like the 4-ho-MiPT visuals which tend to be very similar to those of LSD, or the peaceful meditative visions I get on 4-ho-DiPT.

It started 10 minutes after taking the extra capsules, so the focus issue happened on the 20mgs.

My 4-ho-mipt visuals are always very vivid in the peak. I've done this compound 7 times now on it's own.The first few times I was a little anxious and excited at what was coming. This resulted in rapid CEV that where are representation of how I felt and thought what was coming; for instance devil like faces mixed with a beautiful girl. As the trip continued I was able to control the images. At one point a girl was dancing on the rhythm of the progressive music I was listening too. At the same time I was going through sand with my hand en fingers. The girl continued dancing but it looked like she was projected at sand that was falling down.
As I am not anxious anymore the CEVs are more slow. Very vivid and beatiful flowers that are growing on a black background, strings from the string theory that are moving slowly around it's axis with red fire crackers around it, a large field of coloured tiles that suddenly breaks into thousands pieces, seeing myself sitting at my work with all kinds of coloured diamonds,... And most importantly these images are accompanied by so many thoughts I have about my own life, nature. I think I gained more respect to nature. At work they said to me I act differently in a positive way. I am very greatful for having this compound. It get's me to my soul, it's a great introspective tool for me, to understand the mental pain I have gained in my life.

So far I did 2 4-ho-dipt trips on it's own. In both trips I had no CEVs. I felt some sort of a tremor in my body. People said it arouses, but I am not sure about this. I takes always some time to get a good body buzz on 4-ho-mipt, but then it feels much better and more clean.

The CEVs I received on a mix of 4-ho-mipt and 4-ho-dipt was interesting to me. Very difficult to explain, but they were more fractal based. Like with 4-ho-met, I could not control the CEV at all, but they were not frightning, although I was in a position I could not hardly focus my eyes, more interesting to look at, also slow. I saw a layer of picture of my mom, it was like the felt on the ground on each other creating a big pile with a fractal base in it, as they were twisted. I watched for minutes to a yellowish-reddish cloud that was losing stuff.

Would you like to explain what kind of meditative visions you get on 4-ho-dipt? How much mgs do you take then? I think I took 30 or 35 at once one time. I would love to get something out of 4-ho-dipt. There must be something in this compound, but until now I didn't find it. It's more fysical for me, I really felt like strechting my body on this 30/35mgs, that felt good. Like streching all of my muscle, like some sort of yoga. There was a hugh urge to do this in my body.

 

[chaosbydesign]

Thank you for the trip description- that was illuminating. Have you ever gotten the visual problem with any other psychedelics? The only time I've ever had a problem with vision brought about by drugs was when I took 10mg of Adderall and I guess I responded badly to it (even though I'd taken this same dose and higher many times before... guess I had a bad reaction this time), and I couldn't focus both of my eyes the same way for 12 hours (well after the Adderall had worn off). I could see when I put my hand over one eye and not the other, but not with both at the same time. Is this anything like what you experienced, or was it totally different? I know somebody who also said that one time when he took about 400 micrograms of LSD (a lot for him as he's pretty sensitive dose-wise), his eyes were zooming in and out of things uncontrollably. So.. was it more like that? Or neither? Curious.

I'm with you on absolutely LOVING 4-ho-MiPT. It really is such a gem of a mipty compound. Out of all the 4-subs, I must say that I love it the most. It's SO therapeutic and useful and well-rounded. Thought-provoking, visual, transcendent, pleasant, electric body feeling/sensual, and can produce both/either ego loss and/or empathic connections with the environment and people around you.. YES, great stuff.

For me, 4-ho-DiPT has been about calmness, clearing of the mind, occasional ego disintegration (but in a calm way if that makes sense), and trancing out/meditating. Both 4-ho-MiPT and 4-ho-DiPT make me want to stretch a ton.. feels kinda orgasmic actually. Yoga is good for this sort of thing! Hehe. Stretchy tryptamines are nice. :D

You asked me for the dosage I take them in... Usually I take 4-ho-MiPT and 4-ho-DiPT, if on their own, in about 10 to 15mgs. That's all I need, as I'm extremely sensitive to psychedelics... so these dosages encompass me fully and nicely. I think the 30-35mgs you take would probably send me so out of body that I would be completely non responsive to anything in this reality for hours on end. Which might be kind of interesting... Hehe. You also asked me about the meditative visuals I get with 4-ho-DiPT... Well I remember seeing a sort of prism type shape just rotating slowly in the center of my field of vision, and nothing else. Then there might be some sort of planet with rings or something orbiting it calmly. Always something that seems as if staring at it would help one to meditate and not think of much else or be bombarded by constantly changing visuals. And like I said, I find 4-ho-DiPT (*and* 4-AcO-DiPT) to be very trancelike and meditative. :D

It started 10 minutes after taking the extra capsules, so the focus issue happened on the 20mgs.

My 4-ho-mipt visuals are always very vivid in the peak. I've done this compound 7 times now on it's own.The first few times I was a little anxious and excited at what was coming. This resulted in rapid CEV that where are representation of how I felt and thought what was coming; for instance devil like faces mixed with a beautiful girl. As the trip continued I was able to control the images. At one point a girl was dancing on the rhythm of the progressive music I was listening too. At the same time I was going through sand with my hand en fingers. The girl continued dancing but it looked like she was projected at sand that was falling down.
As I am not anxious anymore the CEVs are more slow. Very vivid and beatiful flowers that are growing on a black background, strings from the string theory that are moving slowly around it's axis with red fire crackers around it, a large field of coloured tiles that suddenly breaks into thousands pieces, seeing myself sitting at my work with all kinds of coloured diamonds,... And most importantly these images are accompanied by so many thoughts I have about my own life, nature. I think I gained more respect to nature. At work they said to me I act differently in a positive way. I am very greatful for having this compound. It get's me to my soul, it's a great introspective tool for me, to understand the mental pain I have gained in my life.

So far I did 2 4-ho-dipt trips on it's own. In both trips I had no CEVs. I felt some sort of a tremor in my body. People said it arouses, but I am not sure about this. I takes always some time to get a good body buzz on 4-ho-mipt, but then it feels much better and more clean.

The CEVs I received on a mix of 4-ho-mipt and 4-ho-dipt was interesting to me. Very difficult to explain, but they were more fractal based. Like with 4-ho-met, I could not control the CEV at all, but they were not frightning, although I was in a position I could not hardly focus my eyes, more interesting to look at, also slow. I saw a layer of picture of my mom, it was like the felt on the ground on each other creating a big pile with a fractal base in it, as they were twisted. I watched for minutes to a yellowish-reddish cloud that was losing stuff.

Would you like to explain what kind of meditative visions you get on 4-ho-dipt? How much mgs do you take then? I think I took 30 or 35 at once one time. I would love to get something out of 4-ho-dipt. There must be something in this compound, but until now I didn't find it. It's more fysical for me, I really felt like strechting my body on this 30/35mgs, that felt good. Like streching all of my muscle, like some sort of yoga. There was a hugh urge to do this in my body.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

/me getting a little enamored with this Chaos the Bluelighter.

 

[Viṣakaṇṭha]

Teheheh Im noticing

Anyone feel like getting back to talkin about the unique nature of DPT though?? (I felt like this was predominantly a DPT experience)....I'd def love to hear some people's theories, beyond trip reports and things like that. This really does seem to be a substance that's infinitely more interesting than any other synthetic I've tried. Anyone else feel the same or have any theories??

 

[progressive]

Have you ever gotten the visual problem with any other psychedelics? The only time I've ever had a problem with vision brought about by drugs was when I took 10mg of Adderall and I guess I responded badly to it (even though I'd taken this same dose and higher many times before... guess I had a bad reaction this time), and I couldn't focus both of my eyes the same way for 12 hours (well after the Adderall had worn off). I could see when I put my hand over one eye and not the other, but not with both at the same time. Is this anything like what you experienced, or was it totally different? I know somebody who also said that one time when he took about 400 micrograms of LSD (a lot for him as he's pretty sensitive dose-wise), his eyes were zooming in and out of things uncontrollably. So.. was it more like that? Or neither? Curious.

For some reason I still was able to walk in my house, not hurting myself walking to furniture, but it was a bit more difficult. It was like I was able to focus for a split second when moving and looking around, but then immediately lost my focus. When I packed some stuff to lay outside, my mobile, some water, my headphone etc, and I eventually relaxed I stared at one woosh of stars if I was hyper drunk. Could be that I was able to see something with one eye, good one!

This sunday I took a capsule of 23mg of 4-ho-mipt, now for the eight trip with this compound. A friend of mine was on 4-aco-dmt, but I decided to take this one again. I got my peak between 50 min and 70 minutes. For some reason I got a little bored then and decided to add 13mg at 90 minutes exactly. Between 120 - 180 minutes from the time I took my first capsule, I could stare, are gaze and loose my focus a little too. Not as bad with the combi with 4-ho-dipt, but I recognize the out of focus issue a little.

I'm with you on absolutely LOVING 4-ho-MiPT. It really is such a gem of a mipty compound. Out of all the 4-subs, I must say that I love it the most.

I love it the most too out of 4-aco-dmt, 4-ho-dipt and 4-ho-met. I didn't tried the 4- det, dpt, dalt and pcp yet.

It's SO therapeutic and useful and well-rounded. Thought-provoking, visual, transcendent, pleasant, electric body feeling/sensual, and can produce both/either ego loss and/or empathic connections with the environment and people around you.. YES, great stuff.

Yes, all is true for me too. It would be wonderful if the visuals could last a little longer. For me the vivid images fade away in 1 hour after it starts working. Therefore I like to extend it. I did once 20mg at 0, 10mg at 2 hours and another 10mg at 4 hours from taking the first capsule; the best trip I ever had.

For me, 4-ho-DiPT has been about calmness, clearing of the mind, occasional ego disintegration (but in a calm way if that makes sense), and trancing out/meditating. Both 4-ho-MiPT and 4-ho-DiPT make me want to stretch a ton.. feels kinda orgasmic actually. Yoga is good for this sort of thing! Hehe. Stretchy tryptamines are nice. :D

Orgasmic, yes absolutely. 4-ho-mipt feels more erotic to me then the dipt counterpart (5-meo-mipt is even better in this aspect for me then 4-ho-mipt btw). Although I read way different stories here on Bluelight about that. I still wonder if I ever going to love 4-ho-dipt, I want too but I do not know how. It's not really psychedelic to me so far, more body tremor, wondering if it is good for my body.

I see you like mixing tryptamines, me too, but I am cautious, so reading stories like yours are more then welcome to me.

I once took 15mg of 5-meo-mipt, then another 5mg in the end of the trip, immediately thinking I still wanted to test the 2c-c I received. So I decided to take 5mg of 2c-c too. If you talk about vivid visuals, maybe like DMT (never tried), I got the most vivid one with this combination. I first had some respiratory issues, felt like I was getting less oxygen, but this issue was gone in 5-10 minutes (but I would advice to be cautious mixing it). Then my mind was blowing away about the extreme vivid CEVs; so bright. It was as bright as the images you will find if you type the word psychedelic into google. A friend of mine who was in the same room said I was smiling and looking very happy, and I was. I've never seen something like this. Maybe a tip to try if you didn't yet.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

Not to me. I have taken it a bunch, it was most interesting smoked. Snorted is not a useful thing for me, and IMed it is a very sacred place, I swear you can feel the dying cancer patients there, but it feels overly synthetic and I like MET and MiPT better.

It is electric stuff, and will punch one through to a ++++. Truly a valid and real pure psychedelic even though I choose others.

Re: Miprocin's sexiness...yeah it is a lusty sexual tryptamine no getting around it. I thought iprocin was randy stuff but miprocin can takes things to new heights. Man you should have seen my cousin Fatima on miprocin, she took off her veil and sang a song and I saw freedom in her eyes.

Teheheh Im noticing

Anyone feel like getting back to talkin about the unique nature of DPT though?? (I felt like this was predominantly a DPT experience)....I'd def love to hear some people's theories, beyond trip reports and things like that. This really does seem to be a substance that's infinitely more interesting than any other synthetic I've tried. Anyone else feel the same or have any theories??

 

[progressive]

I thought iprocin was randy stuff but miprocin can takes things to new heights.

So you say 4-ho-mipt feels more erotic than 4-ho-dipt?

 

[Morninggloryseed]

So you say 4-ho-mipt feels more erotic than 4-ho-dipt?

Yeah easily. Both are erotic but the visual effects of miprocin which make for erotic imagery means iprocin is the winner there.

 

[Viṣakaṇṭha]

Not to me. I have taken it a bunch, it was most interesting smoked. Snorted is not a useful thing for me, and IMed it is a very sacred place, I swear you can feel the dying cancer patients there, but it feels overly synthetic and I like MET and MiPT better.

No? You can't think of any traits specifically unique to DPT that you could extrapolate upon, and thus add more depth to the conversation? Other than the fact that you stated it felt "overtly synthetic" to you...but even that's quite a vague description. What attributes connotate an "overtly synthetic" experience for you? Your comment about dying cancer patients is interesting....was that a positive characteristic (as in, it might be a valuable tool in thanatological studies) or negative (as in, it was too dysphoric or uncomfortable for any major beneficial insights to be gained)? If you felt it had a "sacred" quality to it, I'd enjoy hearing any details or theories you might have.

 

[progressive]

Yeah easily. Both are erotic but the visual effects of miprocin which make for erotic imagery means iprocin is the winner there.

So, iprocin gives you imagery like OP?

 

[chaosbydesign]

I feel that DPT is WAYYYY more willing to completely obliterate its user's ego with no holding back whatsoever. So yeah, if you want to just be completely smashed, destroyed, geshtonkenflapped, all that good stuff (lol Shpongle), then yes DPT is pretty good at disintegrating one completely and relentlessly. And the uncontrollable sexual energy of DPT for me has been unparalleled elsewhere for sure!!! I mean 4-ho-MiPT would be a close second, but still not quite the same hehe. As far as "the dying cancer patients" go, I feel that this extent of easily-achieved ego death probably does have the potential to "prepare" one for death (if that is possible, or more so to accept death and come to terms with it) as best as this kind of psychedelic could. Therein lies therapeutic potential for sure! If that answers your question, Viṣakaṇṭha.

No? You can't think of any traits specifically unique to DPT that you could extrapolate upon, and thus add more depth to the conversation? Other than the fact that you stated it felt "overtly synthetic" to you...but even that's quite a vague description. What attributes connotate an "overtly synthetic" experience for you? Your comment about dying cancer patients is interesting....was that a positive characteristic (as in, it might be a valuable tool in thanatological studies) or negative (as in, it was too dysphoric or uncomfortable for any major beneficial insights to be gained)? If you felt it had a "sacred" quality to it, I'd enjoy hearing any details or theories you might have.

 

[Viṣakaṇṭha]

I feel that DPT is WAYYYY more willing to completely obliterate its user's ego with no holding back whatsoever. So yeah, if you want to just be completely smashed, destroyed, geshtonkenflapped, all that good stuff (lol Shpongle), then yes DPT is pretty good at disintegrating one completely and relentlessly. And the uncontrollable sexual energy of DPT for me has been unparalleled elsewhere for sure!!! I mean 4-ho-MiPT would be a close second, but still not quite the same hehe. As far as "the dying cancer patients" go, I feel that this extent of easily-achieved ego death probably does have the potential to "prepare" one for death (if that is possible, or more so to accept death and come to terms with it) as best as this kind of psychedelic could. Therein lies therapeutic potential for sure! If that answers your question, Viṣakaṇṭha.

Sweeeet, someone wrote me back....thank you kindly lovely Miss CBD! And yes indeed, I certainly agree with ya on everything mentioned...you put it all together quite succinctly

DPT definitely has the ability to prepare one for death (insofar as that's able to be done)....and I think it does so in a way that's very unique amongst psychedelics. Generally when philosophers discuss the death question there's usually two possible outcomes which can then be further broken down: 1. Continuation of consciousness (Abrahamic heavenly depictions, reincarnation, monism) or 2. A complete extinguishing of consciousness (Materialism, Buddhism, Epicureanism)...I think that DPT offers unparalleled access to the 2nd possible outcome. In fact, I think it's unique in that it seems to be far and away the *best* substance which allows insight into this type of experience...the "tripped out of existence" experience

Although I seem to have trouble accessing the 1st death outcome with DPT (which could be a good thing at times). The first outcome (especially in an Abrahamic or reincarnation sense) seems to focus heavily on the aspect of judgment of past deeds and communications with archetypal entities...and I dont really get either with DPT. DPT seems very objective and impartial with the relentless nature of its ego-loss, and I also almost never encounter entity interactions. The whole experience seems to be moving towards a climax of "loss-of-self", in an *extremely* thorough sense...and it does so in the best way possible, a tangibly electric current of trypta-surges laden with somatic awareness and erotic impulse (and thus the Vajrayana connection). I know we've discussed the sexual nature of DPT quite frequently, but I really do think that's one thing that's fascinating about the substance...with DPT, orgasm and death/ego-loss become so entwined as to become indistinguishable. No longer does orgasm possibly lead to ego-loss...orgasm IS death/ego-loss, and death/ego-loss IS orgasm. Definitely the perfect tryptamine for those that dig the overwhelming sensuality found in freedom from control.

 

[Ziiirp]

Freedom from control (and human thoughts/feelings) nails it pretty precisely. But I don't see the link to orgasms as the experience is characterized by the lack of love/care (for me @80mg insufflated) or the lack of a subjective perspective/ego as you wrote. Emotions are transcended already on that plane. Perhaps it depends on the individual but for me DPT goes more into the neutral (often sinister) direction when ripping your nucleus apart. Karma does not play a role here. That makes it easier to handle for me than other tryptamines. Less of a tool, more of a trip. Nobody will gain anything from it.

 

[Viṣakaṇṭha]

Freedom from control (and human thoughts/feelings) nails it pretty precisely. But I don't see the link to orgasms as the experience is characterized by the lack of love/care (for me @80mg insufflated) or the lack of a subjective perspective/ego as you wrote. Emotions are transcended already on that plane. Perhaps it depends on the individual but for me DPT goes more into the neutral (often sinister) direction when ripping your nucleus apart. Karma does not play a role here. That makes it easier to handle for me than other tryptamines. Less of a tool, more of a trip. Nobody will gain anything from it.

Yeah, Im sure it depends on the individual somewhat...although I do know that both the OP and myself have a rather strong predilection for viewing ego-loss in a sexual context. When I stated that DPT seems objective and impartial, I meant that the chemical itself doesn't display any anthropomorphic qualities, personalities, emotions etc....but I don't think that entails that the user of the substance loses the ability to experience emotions. I've worked with a lot of hallucinogens which seem to display very distinct mannerisms and personality traits (Atropa Belladonna, Ayahuasca, Salvia, etc)....but DPT almost always seems like it's the exact opposite, a chemical which behaves as if it's purely an interaction of energies (and you're right, karma definitely doesn't play a role).

I also think one is able to love and care without systems of control set in place (I'd say that constitutes an even more profound aspect of love and care)...and I've never had any problems experiencing either of the two emotions while under the influence of DPT. Quite the opposite...this was a very intense and emotional experience for me right up until the loss of self...and then quite emotional once more upon the return of the self (even more so, I'd say).

I've yet to experience any negative or sinister effects from DPT, but I've certainly heard of people having them. It definitely doesn't appear to be too uncommon. Although I do find sinister trips to be highly erotic as well...so Im sure a great deal regarding the enjoyment of the experience is indeed dependent upon the individual. But it's definitely a tryptamine that meshes quite well with my own philosophical outlooks towards entheogens.

 

[chaosbydesign]

The way I see it is that the relation he made in between the orgasm and the 'release' of letting go through ego death, is metaphorically one. A physical orgasm might satisfy the physical counterpart (but sometimes extends over to other dimensions such as psychological or spiritual), and the process and 'relentlessness' of letting go or being made to let go in other ways would be more mental and symbolic. I think they go hand in hand quite well.

Freedom from control (and human thoughts/feelings) nails it pretty precisely. But I don't see the link to orgasms as the experience is characterized by the lack of love/care (for me @80mg insufflated) or the lack of a subjective perspective/ego as you wrote. Emotions are transcended already on that plane. Perhaps it depends on the individual but for me DPT goes more into the neutral (often sinister) direction when ripping your nucleus apart. Karma does not play a role here. That makes it easier to handle for me than other tryptamines. Less of a tool, more of a trip. Nobody will gain anything from it.

 

[chaosbydesign]

Perhaps it depends on the individual but for me DPT goes more into the neutral (often sinister) direction when ripping your nucleus apart. Karma does not play a role here. That makes it easier to handle for me than other tryptamines. Less of a tool, more of a trip. Nobody will gain anything from it.

Nobody will gain anything from it, or you personally don't gain anything from it? Because I think it's apparent that plenty of people have experienced, therefore learned, valuable things with DPT.

 

[zn13bt]

I'm really interested in this idea of being tripped out of existence, and DPT being particularly effective at triggering such a state. I mentioned in a PM to CBD that it sounded similar to the "cessations" I've had while doing vipassana meditation, which I've experienced as a momentary discontinuity in the stream of consciousness (it's not quite the same as amnesia, because it feels like all mental processes come to a halt all at once and then start back up again). Though rereading this thread now, it sounds like the two of you did have some awareness of the passage of time, so maybe it's not quite the same thing. Another possibility is one of the formless jhanas where the sense of self is pretty much gone but there's still some minimal sensory processing going on. Anyways, I haven't done DPT in years, but this is inspiring me to break out my stash again and try a few experiments of my own. :D

 

[Gratuitous Grace]

"Tripped out of existence" ... wonderful, beautiful report. Such a worthwhile read. Thank you!

I can fully relate to what you originally called "amnesia" or "a blackout" and subsequently treated with much finer distinction. I think it truly deserves that fine distinction. Sadly, I've never experienced DPT (and the Temple of the True Inner Light has stopped corresponding with me ... LOL!) ... but, my experience is that this state is obtainable with other chemicals. LSD, mescaline, DMT -- perhaps many others? And of course this is to say nothing of sitting on a Himalayan cliff for infinite lifetimes. I can't speak to that at all. But, I can integrate that concept into my belief that your personal preparation is likely waaay more important than your particular chemical. As they say, there's a bigger difference between you and Aldous Huxley than there is between LSD and mescaline.

Anyway ... back to the point, which is probably best expressed by a question: when the first-person singular vanishes, who is left behind to have a perspective -- to discriminate, conceptualize, evaluate, judge, remember, and perform all of the other mental gymnastics that we perform seemingly in order to ruin all of our experiences "back here"?

All of the ways in which the "I" is trained to keep track of things vanish along with the "I." And when perspective collapses ... is obliterated ... then there's just raw experience. No one to have it, to enjoy it, to love it, to hate it. It's just experience. It hangs out ... as cool and clean as anything ... not amenable to attachment. So, it's really no wonder that we can't mentally get "back there" and remember in a coherent "back here" sort of way the experiences we had while in that state. There's no bridge, no common language, no denominator. As soon as we want to know what "I" experienced, the inquiry hits a dead end. There was no "I" experiencing. OK ... I'm starting to repeat myself -- sorry!

Now, I don't want to cross any personal lines, but could I just suggest that you don't try to conceptualize the whole thing into obliteration? I feel pretty strongly that the more you try to wrestle with this and pin it down ... conquer it ... the more it's just going to evaporate. It's not in its nature to be figured out, I don't think. You can have it (and you can keep having it in various ways) in the way it can be had. Or you can drag it back here and train it to do all kinds of tricks. It won't be the same "it," however, and I'd hate to see anyone ruin what I've already called a wonderful, beautiful thing. If I were lucky enough to have had that wonderful, beautiful experience, I would utilize it for my mind's evolution. That probably seems perfectly obvious. Time to go higher.

Wow, this is rare stuff. Much rarer than any of these chemicals we're always chasing around. So many people love to throw the term "ego death" into their trip reports (it's almost a requirement) -- and then follow that up with sentiments like "and then I saw so clearly that we're all one" ... or some such thing. Huh? Who's this "I" that's suddenly back on the scene? How do "we" fit into that framework? Sorry ... I just don't think that quite captures it.

In a sense this obviously goes waaay deeper; in another sense, it's the shallowest, most trivial thing there is. So simple ... requires nothing to be added.

 

[Gratuitous Grace]

Sorry for the double-post, friends. But, I just ran into the following paragraph (for the umpteenth time!) in Doors of Perception and decided that it matched up pretty well with what I was *trying* to say directly above. I figured I'd share it since it's about 18,000 times more eloquent than what I said.

Neither, if we are to remain sane, can we possibly do without direct perception, the more unsystematic the better, of the inner and outer worlds into which we have been born. This given reality is an infinite which passes all understanding and yet admits of being directly and in some sort totally apprehended. It is a transcendence belonging to another order than the human, and yet it may be present to us as a felt immanence, an experienced participation.

Now, why can't *I* write like that? LOL! In all seriousness, I think this is directly applicable to the OP's (and her friend's) experience.

 

[Viṣakaṇṭha]

I'm really interested in this idea of being tripped out of existence, and DPT being particularly effective at triggering such a state. I mentioned in a PM to CBD that it sounded similar to the "cessations" I've had while doing vipassana meditation, which I've experienced as a momentary discontinuity in the stream of consciousness (it's not quite the same as amnesia, because it feels like all mental processes come to a halt all at once and then start back up again). Though rereading this thread now, it sounds like the two of you did have some awareness of the passage of time, so maybe it's not quite the same thing. Another possibility is one of the formless jhanas where the sense of self is pretty much gone but there's still some minimal sensory processing going on. Anyways, I haven't done DPT in years, but this is inspiring me to break out my stash again and try a few experiments of my own.

Yes, most definitely!!! This is really along the lines of what I was thinking. Im glad you brought it up...it could certainly possibly be a formless jhana state...perhaps the third or fourth arupa-jhana. I was reading Julius Evola and surprisingly came across a passage which discusses the connection you made, and it does sound pretty similar to what we were experiencing.

"We have conceived the nidāna "consciousness" in terms of a determined manifestation. To cut off the bond that it represents, we must pass over to the third āyatana or arupa-jhāna, whose object is experience of the sphere of "nonexistence." This sphere must be understood as the negative counterpart of "consciousness," that is, the power of nonmanifestation correlative to that of manifestation, whose principle is "consciousness." The experience of the āyatana can also be denoted by the formula "nothing exists," since to penetrate the power of nonmanifestation means to apprehend in everything the possibility of its nonexistence, the lack of its own reality, even in the case of him "in virtue of who everything that exists is." For this reason, some have conceived the experience in question as a liberation from Etwas-heit, from objectivity in general, extended even to the supercelestial spheres." - The Doctrine of Awakening: The Attainment of Self-Mastery According to the Earliest Buddhist Texts

The awareness of the passage of time is really interesting. It only occurred after regaining consciousness. I assume it was a biological issue...I know there are several studies confirming the slowing down of time during a NDE (David Eagleman's SCAD experiment). There's a psychology journal piece ("Time Slows Down during Accidents") detailing the phenomenon and it outlined some of it's characteristics

"To summarize, the key features of the experiences that are of interest here are the following:

1. The feeling of external time expanding and slowing down to a great extent.
2. Dominant mental quickness as demonstrated by the increased speed of thoughts.
3. There is often an altered sense of the duration of the event lasting longer than it actually does.
4. If possible, in the event in question, people often act fast and purposefully.
5. In the latter case, their attention is also altered and narrowly focused on the issues relevant for survival.
6. Unusually sharp vision or hearing."

I thought this was quite fascinating in that even the sensation of "unusually sharp vision or hearing" was experienced as CBD mentioned when she wrote, "The visuals were so crisp and sharp that entire room seemed to be splitting into fragments." I figured that since this was the last conscious perception we had, that upon re-awakening the experience of slowed-down time gave us the sense that eons had indeed passed during the occurrence.

If you decide to break out the stash I'd really be interested in hearing about any experiences you have! What you wrote really made me think quite a bit and get a better grasp on the situation. It's fascinating stuff...many thanks! :D

Now, I don't want to cross any personal lines, but could I just suggest that you don't try to conceptualize the whole thing into obliteration?

Neither, if we are to remain sane, can we possibly do without direct perception, the more unsystematic the better, of the inner and outer worlds into which we have been born. This given reality is an infinite which passes all understanding and yet admits of being directly and in some sort totally apprehended. It is a transcendence belonging to another order than the human, and yet it may be present to us as a felt immanence, an experienced participation.

Yeah, I do realize that many of the responses in this thread are pretty detailed...but I don't personally feel that several posts on a forum really constitutes as "conceptualizing into obliteration". Particularly since you quoted an essay from Huxley which is much lengthier and more discursive than anything written here so far (covering topics as vast as the Platonic sense of Is-ness, zen koans, the relation between modern psychiatry and Tibetan Buddhism, Sat Chit Ananda, etc etc etc). And I really dont mean that in a pejoritive sense...I love Huxley very much...but I think his position might be more complex than what you stated (I think you might only be displaying one side of his position).

There's a direct response to this in Huxley's book Island where Will states, "Whereas, if I choose to project instead of taking in, I can conceptualize it into pure nonsense." And Mrs. Narayan retorts, "The analyzing tradition-bound concept maker and the alertly passive insight receiver— neither is infallible; but both together can do a reasonably good job." Also, the sentence right before your quote from Doors of Perception is "Systematic reasoning is something we could not, as a species or as individuals, possibly do without." I certainly don't think that Huxley was against in-depth philosophizing (he certainly did quite a bit of it himself)...I just think he simply saw it as one side of the coin (the other side dealing with the felt presence of direct experience). Both are necessary it seems, according to Huxley.

So many people love to throw the term "ego death" into their trip reports (it's almost a requirement) -- and then follow that up with sentiments like "and then I saw so clearly that we're all one" ... or some such thing. Huh? Who's this "I" that's suddenly back on the scene?

But yeah, this is essentially what I was trying to get at with with a lot of the musings here on ego-loss. Im really glad someone understands! And it's a big reason why I found this experience to be so fascinating for me. So many people use ego-loss in a monistic Hindu type sense. There's a famous saying in Hindu theology..."Atman is Brahman". Atman being the self, Brahman being without form...so I think that it seems that in almost every case, when people refer to "I" in the context of ego loss they are discussing something similar to Para Brahman...eliminating the individual self and becoming aware of the "Great Self" (the "we're all one" phenomenon that you mentioned). But thats much different than the complete and direct experience of "nothingness", which is more of what this experience entailed. Its a type of trip that I don't see discussed often in professional psychedelic literature or trip reports...so it was really really interesting to me. And it's awesome to see that other people like yourself really understood the original trip report in a more accurate context! I definitely agree with ya on much of your post