• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

4-aco-met causes depletion?

R

Robinvanpersie

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 5, 2016
Messages
34
According to a lot of people 4-aco-met is very euphoric and almost like a mix between mdma/psychedelic.

Does this mean the brain releases a lot of serotonin just like mdma does which can increase the chance of depletion in serotonin levels? Especially if you compare it to other psychedelics like lsd, 4-aco-dmt or mushrooms?

Thanks
 
Robinvanpersie said:
Hm ok. Do you know what happens in the brain when taking this that causes these more euphoric feelings compared to the other psychs?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there really just hasn't been much scientific research done on these kinds of things, so no one can tell you for sure because we don't know ourselves. However, if I had to make an educated guess, I would bet that it has something to do with dopamine.

If you're wondering why anything makes you feel good, dopamine is probably the safe bet. Even MDMA's rewarding properties appear to depend on dopamine based on animal studies, just downstream of serotonin release. In other words, even though the effect is dependent on serotonin and thus sensitive to depletion, it's still probably not the serotonin itself that makes you feel good technically, but the dopamine released in turn by that serotonin. And there's probably also a slight synergy with MDMA's weaker dopaminergic stimulant effects as well.

The thing about psychedelics is that they feel like MDMA because they bind directly to serotonin receptors, making them serotonin mimics. However, because they bind to the receptors with different affinity and efficacy ratios compared to serotonin itself, the overall net effect on neurotransmitters will be still related but ultimately different. For that reason you could end up with a psychedelic that feels similar to MDMA but less euphoric, or similar but more euphoric, or even more euphoric but dissimilar for other reasons, and so on. 4-AcO-MET (probably actually the 4-HO-MET it metabolizes to) would probably then just be one of the more euphoric forms.

And as for psychedelics not causing depletion, it's probably because dopamine is significantly harder to deplete than serotonin, likely because it's far more crucial to biological survival, being a key factor in learning and motivation. Take, for instance, the fact that one good roll can leave you drained, whereas people generally abuse stimulants for much longer periods of time before it truly starts to get to them. By comparison, the intense but temporary and short-lived dopamine release by psychedelics would be almost nothing.

Those are my thoughts on the matter anyway.
 
Kaleida said:
Unfortunately, there really just hasn't been much scientific research done on these kinds of things, so no one can tell you for sure because we don't know ourselves. However, if I had to make an educated guess, I would bet that it has something to do with dopamine.

If you're wondering why anything makes you feel good, dopamine is probably the safe bet. Even MDMA's rewarding properties appear to depend on dopamine based on animal studies, just downstream of serotonin release. In other words, even though the effect is dependent on serotonin and thus sensitive to depletion, it's still probably not the serotonin itself that makes you feel good technically, but the dopamine released in turn by that serotonin. And there's probably also a slight synergy with MDMA's weaker dopaminergic stimulant effects as well.

The thing about psychedelics is that they feel like MDMA because they bind directly to serotonin receptors, making them serotonin mimics. However, because they bind to the receptors with different affinity and efficacy ratios compared to serotonin itself, the overall net effect on neurotransmitters will be still related but ultimately different. For that reason you could end up with a psychedelic that feels similar to MDMA but less euphoric, or similar but more euphoric, or even more euphoric but dissimilar for other reasons, and so on. 4-AcO-MET (probably actually the 4-HO-MET it metabolizes to) would probably then just be one of the more euphoric forms.

And as for psychedelics not causing depletion, it's probably because dopamine is significantly harder to deplete than serotonin, likely because it's far more crucial to biological survival, being a key factor in learning and motivation. Take, for instance, the fact that one good roll can leave you drained, whereas people generally abuse stimulants for much longer periods of time before it truly starts to get to them. By comparison, the intense but temporary and short-lived dopamine release by psychedelics would be almost nothing.

Those are my thoughts on the matter anyway.
Click to expand...

Great info! Thanks!
 
4-AcO-MET is not necessarily that special in this regard, it's very similar to 4-HO-MET which in turn is similar to psilocin (4-HO-DMT). Psilocin can be deeply euphoric in this same way, but my experience is that compared to the 4-xO-METs this euphoria can be overshadowed by a tendency to produce an emotional rollercoaster experience, and also more anxiety I'd say. Not sure why, maybe more serotonergic imbalance in the amygdala on psilocin?

About the origin of the euphoria: yes dopaminergic neurons in the reward pathways are considered primarily responsible, and those are coupled with many other types of receptors and pathways such as GABA, closely linked in relations like GABA-mediated inhibition being able to inhibit other inhibitory activity causing more of other certain activity. So direct dopaminergic action is not necessary for euphoria and psilocin isn't really dopaminergic. It acts on 5HT2A serotonergic receptors but also other serotonergic receptors, and indirect consequences of this likely include the euphoria as mentioned. We should expect 4-HO-MET and 4-AcO-MET to not be that different, considering psilocin's own potential for euphoria.
 
Robinvanpersie said:
Great info! Thanks!
Click to expand...

No problem. :) Solipsis makes a good point as well, in that with 4-HO-MET and 4-AcO-MET it can be not necessarily the fact that they're purely more euphoric than the others either but simply that they are not as anxious or mental, they can be very easy to handle. So, even if dopamine is responsible for the euphoria these tryptamines cause, it could also be a lack of some other effect downstream of serotonin receptor activation, or even whatever receptors they might bind to, that really makes them more enjoyable for some. Definitely a lot of very complex relationships to consider.... It's fascinating stuff!
 
I like calling getting euphoria from your reward pathways 'going vental tegmental'
 
That's actually pretty good, I'm going to remember that haha.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top