RCs 25x-nbome risks, toxicity etc.?

[phatass]

Hi,
I was browsing on erowid and found the nbome related OD'es (where the sole cause of death was presumed to be a relatively low dose of 25i-nbome), these seem relatively rare, allthough far higher than with the 2C-x's, and i'm sure the bigger danger is accidents, doing stupid shit while high etc.

However I couldn't find much on the neurotoxicity/toxicity, apart from a short piece about 3 young people who ended up in the hospital from recreational use (they were three friends) bad batch? I can't imagine anyone has solid information on long term recreational use, but if you have any theories on how often is too often? Is it highly toxic (or toxic at all for that matter) on the brain, and other organs. I could then try to evaluate with your help that (in my case 25i and 25c should be used no more frequently than x amount of time, and in theory, what would be too high a dose that may cause irreversible damage...

thanks in advance for your help and input.

 

[sekio]

I think it's acute toxicity that is the issue - regular usage of any psychedelic is apt to cause problems, of course, because people have a tendency to get... disconnected from reality.

What we do know is that dosages of above about 1mg for any of the NBOMes is a pretty solid risk. Especially in the case of blotters of unknown/unreliable dosage, people end up taking too much, usually more than one blotter is too much, and then have either panic attacks, cardiac arrest (long QT syndrome - the NBOMe drugs fit the profile of hERG blockers, which are drugs that can cause certain people's hearts to stop if they have congenital heart defects. Sound familiar? Kids dropping dead suddenly after taking NBOMe? This is a reason why!), stroke, seizure or aspirate vomit.

It is absolutely critical you know your dosage and source and purity and all that. Liquid solution dosing is probably more reliable than blotter tabs. Remember, if you lack volumetric glassware but have a scale, water is a convenient 1 gram per 1ml... if you dissolve drugs like NBOMes at 1mg/ml or less this won't effect the density. Use distilled water wherever possible. Oral syringes and scales are cheap! Look online. Get a cheap Chinese one. Seriously.

And seriously, get a scale! It is indispensable to have a scale accurate to at least 0.01g and a set of calibration weights. You don't need to spend more than about 100 dollars. Can get them online or at any of your friendly headshops. Weighing dosages (and of course, set and setting management!!) can be the difference between you having a fun manageable trip and ending up in the ER because your friend had a seizure, blacked out, and hit his head on the pavement and now won't stop bleeding from the nose. GET A SCALE! DON'T RISK YOUR LIFE EYEBALLING A POTENT PSYCHEDELIC! DON'T BE "THAT GUY" THE CHEAPSKATE WHO KILLED HIMSELF OVER EYEBALLING SOME POTENT DRUG WHEN HE COULD HAVE USED A $20 SCALE AND LIVED!

Your life is worth at least $100, yeah?

Do these drugs in controlled settings preferably with a sober sitter and keep your dosage below 1mg. Don't get tempted to re-dose. These are powerful chemicals that can take up to 3 hours to take effect in the case of 25I.

In fact, 25I is probably one of the worst offenders. Its high lipophilicity means a long come up time and sort of reduced potency because the faster the drug hits your receptors the more intense it is, and 25I wants to stick to all the fat molecules it can rather than being in the water filled synapse. So you get people taking more and more, even though they've already taken enough to give them a crazy trip, it's just getting stuck in fat cells on the way to their brain. When it all hits though, it causes their brain to basically white out and shut down... imagine taking 20 hits of acid and having them all hit at once. Or like the bromo dragonfly deaths... high potency psychedelics can cause weird vascular/blood pressure issues. You need a sober sitter if you push the dose beyond about 0.75mg.

25C, 25E and 25D-NBOMe are more water soluble, as are the NBOH's. So they should be slightly more potent - quicker come up. Closer to acid, sort of. Either way, 300micrograms (0.3mg) sublingual should be enough to get you seeing tracers on any of those, within an hour. For 25I-NBOMe, the worst of the lot, call it 600mcg sublingual max and wait 3 hours. 25B-NBOMe is in the middle. It's greasy but not so much as 25I. So, do the math...



Know your substance, know your dose, know your set and setting, and take it slowly and carefully and you should be OK. Otherwise if you think you can play with these compounds like Tonka trucks you will end up in the morgue.