Heroin 24 hours after last dose of H still no W/D

[Slum Survivor]

yesterday i shot 2 bags of dope, strong dope. its been about 24 hours and im still afraid to take my subs because im not sweating much, when i go outside my pupils pinpoint in the sunlight... etc.

im feeling like crap, im just not quite so sure how to gauge my W/D and see if im good enough to take my subs


i dont understand why the heck im not in full w/d right now... i wish i was. but i certainly dont want precipitated withdrawals as those are absolutely horrible.

what is going on here?? could constipation have something to do with it? benzos??

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

yesterday i shot 2 bags of dope, strong dope. its been about 24 hours and im still afraid to take my subs because im not sweating much, when i go outside my pupils pinpoint in the sunlight... etc.

im feeling like crap, im just not quite so sure how to gauge my W/D and see if im good enough to take my subs


i dont understand why the heck im not in full w/d right now... i wish i was. but i certainly dont want precipitated withdrawals as those are absolutely horrible.

what is going on here?? could constipation have something to do with it? benzos??

Like we talked about in the other thread. It's all about metabolism, man. Some people get sicker a lot faster, some a lot slower. 24 hours is about the average range so you're not really at an uncommon point.

You need to be honest about your level of withdrawal, no matter the time, or you will get PW's and that's a bitch.

One way to gauge the level of WD is the COWS scale, provided you answer it accurately.

 

[RTrain]

What about benzos? are you on them? If so it is going to make you feel the w/d is less severe. It is not suggested to use anything to lessen w/d when you are waiting to take Subs. Right after you take it and still feel a little crappy then by all means some benzos are great. IDK what role constipation would play in it, I do know I am usually pretty blocked up and the time I need to wait isn't very long, but its different for everyone.

 

[Slum Survivor]

well sorry to be bouncing around in the forum... im just kinda freakin out trying to wait it out. so far the highest number or so i can come up with on the cows scale is around 17. im not very good at using it everything i read suggests waiting it out till you score closer to around 25 or higher....

you've helped me with a lot of questions mr. S i really appriciate it.

im going to try and wait untill morning to see if im sick enough. right now im only starting to get a little sweat here and there. but im freezing to high hell. stuff like that makes it hard for me to use the cows scale properly... i dont ever remember having tremors before so i keep scoring a 0 there. and im not good at taking it myself... but it seems like my pulse is barely 80, if it even is. so theres another factor on the scale that i dont ever remember having.

i certainly didnt have those things beofre when i took subs in the past with success avoiding P/W

i appriciate it for real... thank you MR. S

What about benzos? are you on them? If so it is going to make you feel the w/d is less severe. It is not suggested to use anything to lessen w/d when you are waiting to take Subs. Right after you take it and still feel a little crappy then by all means some benzos are great. IDK what role constipation would play in it, I do know I am usually pretty blocked up and the time I need to wait isn't very long, but its different for everyone.

benzo's.... i was taking about 1mg xanax or 2 mg ativan at night for at least a month now. a couple days off here and there but not much. two nights ago i took about 25 mg of diazepam trying to get some sleep. i have 15 mg left of it.

ive had almost 48 hours with out dosing another benzo right now. diazepam has such a long half life, ive been wondering if benzos could be screwing this up for me, either from benzo withdrawal, or from having benzos active that possibly change the way i feel the w/d i doubt they would prevent GI issues and sweating tho... both of which are the main things im nervous that i havent felt yet.

the other day when i woke up from the 25mg of valium i felt like my w/d wasnt as bad as it should have been/ i was able to function for a few hours that day because of that im geusssing

o man im getting super restless while typing this. i think im finally starting to w/d mildly-moderate. i cant stand anything under about 70-75 degrees F and i keep yawning and urinating. perhaps just a few more hours will be all i need... thx u guys for trying to help. i know people prolly have to answer this crap all the time now. so thx for taking the time to help answer some Q's

you have no idea how bad i want to go back and give away those 2 packs i stupidly shot yesterday.

 

[RTrain]

^You touch upon an issue with the COWS scale that I have noticed. Some of the signs and symptoms on there I don't experience or I don't get past the 1 point of at the worse of my w/d. I think you need to make adjustments for yourself. For instance I take a beta blocker so my pulse rate won't go above 90 even in full w/d. So I assume in the 90-100 range is around a full 4pts for me. Also I never vomit (maybe an occasional dry heave) and the diarrhea doesn't bother me much. I usually clear my bowels early in the w/d and anything I eat goees straight thru to the other side, but I don't get the unrelenting back and forth on the toilet deal.

Also you should note the COWS scale is actually designed for a healthcare provider to assess a patient, not a person to assess themselves. I mean its doable on yourself, but if you can have someone else try it on you it might be worth it.

 

[Slum Survivor]

a LOT of what u said holds true for me as well.... hardly ever vomit from W/D (only twice in my life) i used to be the same way with the bowels too, but recently ive had constipation issues. ive been worried that it is making things worse, taking things longer to metabolize.

well im gonna try to go lay down and wait for morning to take any sub... i sure hope i can sleep a little.


thx for the help

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

Yeah, not everyone feels the exact same withdrawals. Some people don't puke, some people don't get rls, etc. The scale is just meant to be used as a guide by the doctors, it's not the end all be all decision on when to induct.

If you can wait until morning, man, you'll be better off as obviously the longer the wait the better the chance of the bupe working.

However, you know your body and withdrawals better than me, so do what you feel is right. I don't want you to unnecessarily suffer waiting way longer than you have to to take the bupe. If you really think you're sick enough for what you personally go through, than start dosing the bupe in very small increments, waiting a couple hours in between each dose.

There's a theory that if you dose small enough and spread it out long enough, you can start taking bupe before full withdrawal and avoid PW's all together. I've had it work for me in the past.. sometimes it doesn't.

Note: Keep in mind that despite how long you wait, etc, often times the first day on the bupe, sometimes the first couple days, are hard.. even after taking it. It can take a few days to get used to it completely and have it take away all of your symptoms. So, if you do take it the first day and don't feel perfect, that's normal.

 

[Slum Survivor]

i think something is wrong here... im still not sweating much or having ANY bowel movements. im at around 36+ hours too. i have severe cold chills, my eyes keep going back and forth dialtion wise. its almost like im not in as much W/D as i was last night in some ways... wtf is going on with me?

EDIT: u posted while i was in the middle of typing and posting my self sry about that Mr S.

 

[RTrain]

The constipation is awful for me, too. But once I hit moderate w/d its like uncorking a plug. Its probably the one slightly enjoyable thing about the w/d, not being backed up to all hell.

 

[Slum Survivor]

this is rediculous tho.... over 36 hours later and im not even scoring past the teens on the cows scale... the stupid cows scale says u must be around 15 on the scale. i assumed it was higher from reading around. but the cows scale info that comes with it says 5-24 is sufficient for short acting opioids.

i had a bowel movement, a small one. rock hard too its like my stuff doesnt want to un-cork as u said. i really am thinking that has something to do with this. only other thing i can think of is that something is messed up with my metabolisim, or that the stupid dope had methadone in it. but wouldnt that have changed the way that the dope felt?

what about if i missed part of my last shot? i honestly dont remember if i did, cause i got a rush, but i have a spot with a bruise where i had injected last.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

The constipation has nothing to do with it. Honestly, at 36 hours since your last dose, you are probably fine to take the suboxone. Like I said, the cows scale is just a guide. Don't get too hung up on it.

Take like .5mg's and see how you feel. Wait an hour or two and If you're still feeling sick, take another .5. Dosing slowly like this will further help to avoid PW's but 36 hours should be enough time, especially if you don't have a large habit.

 

[Slum Survivor]

i know what ure saying... just when u r goin thru it, u start to think of that kind of stuff.

i did just dose about 2mg of sub. it didnt kick me into bad w/d's or anything. but i am still feeling a bit of the symptoms of W/D... my geuss is that i still havent taken enough sub to cover up the majority of the W/D.

but yeah i was reading around the net... i read a few stories of PW's happening to folks even at 36 hours after the last H dose. especially if you miss some/all of your shot. or if you snort the H supposedly it takes longer. well i doubt that one cuz i used to snort too for about a year. and i used to get into BAD w/d within 18-24 hours.

considering i have been okay over the the last hour and a half, i think your right about titrating up instead of a big dose...

so u think im okay to keep titrating up? im certainly not planning on the 16mg dose im prescribed... but maybe another dose of 2mg.

what im concerned about now is that im at a bupe level where the only reason im not getting PW's is because im at or below the 2mg level where typically bupe acts more like a full agonist. so im hoping that if i choose to dose more sub that it doesnt throw me back into w/d

i seriously want to go back to when i got that dope last and freaking break my fingers so i cant do the crap and give it away to the other dope heads i know. of course im kidding about breaking my fingers, but not about wishing i woulda just took my subs instead of waiting (what i thought was going to be one more day so i could get high one last time...)

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Yeah I think you're okay. Bupe can take up to 2 hours to start working fully, so after about 2 hours, take another 2mg's. Repeat that until you feel relief but don't exceed 8-12mg's for the first day, it's not advised and could just make you feel sicker. Like I said the first day might still be tough but at least now you're getting the bupe into your system. Keep dosing up and then go to sleep tonight, take 4mg's tomorrow morning right when you wake up, and you should be feeling waayy better. You still might need more bupe to hold you but you still will feel much better.

 

[Slum Survivor]

yeah as of right now im at 8 mg total. it has pretty much blocked all w/d at this point since its had time to take effect.

i dont feel way better yet... but im getting there it seems like. i tihnk you're right, tomorrow after dosing i should feel much better.
i have a bit of that suboxone headache right now... and i even drain out my saliva to avoid injesting any naloxone since i was told by a dr to do this with suboxone, he said it can help prevent side effects such as headaches and constipation. i was told i didnt need to do that with the subutex i was given by him after the first month. wish my current doctor would give me subutex again. i dont care about IV(even tho it doesnt matter suboxone is just as injectable) i just want my meds to be cheaper
i know the title topic is way off now sry about that. sure hope it helps someone going thru the same thing i was tho.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

Oh it will come, suddenly you'll have cold sweats and chills in the upper back...that's how any cold turkeying goes for me.

yeah as of right now im at 8 mg total. it has pretty much blocked all w/d at this point since its had time to take effect.

i dont feel way better yet... but im getting there it seems like. i tihnk you're right, tomorrow after dosing i should feel much better.
i have a bit of that suboxone headache right now... and i even drain out my saliva to avoid injesting any naloxone since i was told by a dr to do this with suboxone, he said it can help prevent side effects such as headaches and constipation. i was told i didnt need to do that with the subutex i was given by him after the first month. wish my current doctor would give me subutex again. i dont care about IV(even tho it doesnt matter suboxone is just as injectable) i just want my meds to be cheaper
i know the title topic is way off now sry about that. sure hope it helps someone going thru the same thing i was tho.

I'm on methadone and switching to subs soon, the juice started to give me horrible side effects (the kind you can only see by having blood tests). I'm at 44mg then down to 41 etc. will switch in a month when im at 35mg. But you got me scared here...I got into opiates due to a fucking pain problem on the left side of my face related to an injury to the jaw and the nerves right there and lack of doctor comprehension etc. the usual ignored patient bullshit. Whenever I went to see my GP after getting on methadone he got a lot of yells about this being his fault and he should just have looked at the x-rays and ct scan results correctly, the methadone docs did and understood why I was in pain. Anyways, suboxone isn't only kinda crappy for pain but it also gives people headaches ? I wasn't told about this when I talked with her (the doc). She even said, when you get treated with a testosterone shot and be scripted the gel to put it on your back afterwards that I might just get back my energy and stop feeling like sleeping all day and watching myself balloon up from 203lbs to 270 in 9 months (fucking methadone caused this, it was impossible to detect sexually because I can perform alright, although I can go without sex no problem and with the girlfriend I have this is not an option lol). I really do not want to suffer and have pain in the head again. If when I get the shot of T in 3 days I start feeling better while still on the done (i'll have 2 weeks before seeing the doc and switch), maybe it will be a good idea to stay on it....which sucks because I also get the water retention and weight gaining...but that could be the low levels of T too...I really don't want to go through the "I got blinding headaches and my jaw feels like a knife going through my head" thing again.

 

[Zerrr]

I find that how much I sleep (or lack of sleep) following my last dose changes how quickly my wds kick in. also effects the severity at onset.

Never made 24 hours though..

thread worthy [ ]

 

[Slum Survivor]

Oh it will come, suddenly you'll have cold sweats and chills in the upper back...that's how any cold turkeying goes for me.

I'm on methadone and switching to subs soon, .

well i usually w/d fairly hard within the 12 hour mark... something about the last stuff i did, it just didnt want to leave my system i geuss. i had to wait 40 hours and was still quite dysphoric making the switch. i still am somewhat feeling wierd... like most of the physical w/d is being covered, but i certainly dont feel great or anything. im sure that stopping a small benzo habit at the same time didnt help with that tho.

about the methadone to subs. i certainly wish u luck, i dont envy your situation. i dont have much experience with methadone, but id be scared about PW's for days most likely... im sry to hear about your condition. but yeah bupe is certainly not a miracle or anything. my sciatica is bothering me atm. however im also trying to take as least amount of suboxone as i can stand.

I find that how much I sleep (or lack of sleep) following my last dose changes how quickly my wds kick in. also effects the severity at onset.

Never made 24 hours though..

thread worthy [ ]

i used to have a very hard time going 24 hours between H dosages. the stuff i was getting towards the end was quite a bit stronger and also seemed to last much longer. hence my 40 hour mark was probably more like your 12-18 hour mark or so. i have no idea why really. normally id have been just like you, but that dope just wouldnt let me w/d until "the cows came home". my main concern was avoiding PW's

 

[Jabberwocky]

alot of peeps get too worries about the Subox after their last dose; man, we're dope fiends here, so I wouldnt worry too much. I never wait till the WD's actually kick. I usually give it 12 hours and ill take my subs. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. my WD's usually dont even hit till 24-36 hours and when using im usually doing 1-3 grams a day, so it's not like I have a small habit here. how long you been using for? are you SURE your PHYSICALLY ADDICTED? mentally, without a doubt since youre on this board and asking these questions. but physically, maybe, maybe not.. you'd know more than me. but yea, i wouldnt worry too much at the 24hr mark. does take the subox if its going to help and going to get you through that next day. no worries after 24hrs, thats for sure. i've taken even at the 8 and 12hr mark w/ no problems.

anyway, like i just said, us being dopefiends i wouldnt worry too much about taking the sub too soon. its something you SHOULD be feeling anyway, withdrawal. maybe it will help and wake you up. ha. but at the 24hr mark there will be no problems at all. been down this road many, many times and never had a problem.

 

[recyclethepandas]

if you dont move around much the withdrawals a) take longer to kick in and b) take longer to go away. you gotta stay active and get your metabolism going.

 

[El Barto]

IMO there is nothing weird in your story

You used heroin ONE day...and one day dosent give any WD

So, if you experience any WD, it wont be because the one day heroin, but because the subuxone. And subuxone WD may last to appear even until 4 days. So it is very logical what is happening to you

If i were you, id take the subuxone 24 hours after the heroin as sth 99% safe, due to shor heroin half life. If you feel worried, just do the maths to know how many heroin is still in your system

PS: im not a doctor, i said what i would do, it dosent mean it will work for you. Anyway i agree with the BostonBrown, 24 hours after heroin seems prety safe to me to subuxone. Wanna be more sure? Then wait 36 hours