200 new tryptamines, patent, Hamilton Morris

[yaesutom]

I just found this there’s a ton of new compounds, lot of odd fluoro tryptamines and odd stuff! I just started reading it

 

[yaesutom]

Whoops somehow I accidentally replied to this thread instead of the one I was reading.. now I can’t find where to paste it. So ignore this but does make me wonder if there’s anything DMT-like in this batch of new tryptamines or now the 5-fluoro would effect compounds. I wonder if any of them were tasted.

Anecdotal is useful, sometimes… there just are not enough studies being done, mostly because it’s illegal. I really think DMT is somehow unique, especially low doses have this focus and quieting effect. It’s a psychedelic thats in its own category and unfortunately no modifications to the compound (so far) seem to retain the effect. Except some mild overlap with 5-MeO/4-AcO/Pro/HO-DMT. MET, MiPT, DPT etc don’t really retain the anti psychotic effect or feel like it’s doing the same thing.

It has this these specific effects like raising the visual frame rate while reducing complexity of geometry (as if it’s reorienting resources towards fast vision). Quieting the mind especially mind chatter. All of the other psychedelics are in some ways opposite. I still don’t think most psychedelic effects really overlap with true psychosis. I’ve experienced psychosis a handful of times and it did not really feel anything like a trip. But most of them I would not think is a good idea to give to a schizophrenic.

I wrote a thread about schizophrenics and DMT long ago on here, most people thought I was insane but in the years since then I’ve gotten like a dozen PMs from people using DMT for their schizo symptoms. Stops voices.

I’m not a obsessively pro psychedelics person either it was because of the effects I’ve experienced with DMT myself that led me to think it might help psychotic symptoms. One time years ago I was raving for 3 days straight, starting to hear voices due to lack of sleep and MDxx etc and I was puffing on the DMT to make everything normal. It just shut down the voices.

It can occasionally be unpredictable with high doses it’s more the lower ones that seem to be low risk (although my friend, took a huge rip, and that seemed to kill the voices for good). He said it felt like his brain shattered but came together correctly. Also he had a strange feeling on the top of his head that went away from that DMT hit.

 

[Fertile]

The High-Stakes Race to Engineer New Psychedelic Drugs

As psychedelic therapies for mental health go mainstream, companies are recruiting chemists to create patentable versions of hallucinogens. Critics say it’s all a bad trip.

www.wired.com

Someone has recognised that psilocin is now being studied and is gambling on one or more of the patented compound being of use. After all, the chemistry isn't too taxing so it's possible to make so many. But since it takes an average of 13 years for a new medicine to be licenced, the money has to be made in 7.

Of course, Upjohn recognised AMT & AET & their 7-methyl derivatives might have made decent antidepressants BUT thy did not consider resolution of them. only the (S) isomers have 5HT2a affinity, the (R) isomers are triple releasing agents. Long ago we resolved AMT to confirm the fact.

I've mentioned elsewhere that (R) 7,α-dimethyl tryptamine ((R) - 7-methyl AMT( is surprisingly close in it's effects to other entactogens (MD(M)Am MD-aminorex and so on). But evidently optical resolution isn't something many places are set up to do at scale. After all, either you have to throw away half of your product or you have to resolve, racemize & feed the racemate back into the resolution step. I think we used O,O-Dibenzoyl-2R,3R-Tartaric Acid, One would want to find a cheaper way.

Well spotted!

 

[yaesutom]

Oh I think the link was removed because it may have had some synthesis in it but I found it elsewhere, someone said Hamilton Morris was part of it. Lot of unique strange stuff they tried and apparently got some data on rats. I skimmed though it just to look at the molecules.

 

[yaesutom]

I really hope the pharma companies that got into it continue Shulgins ways, try them all out, find the good ones. Some end up magical. I’m not a fan of them being able to patent them for money though but oh well maybe they will be different than the average pharma co.

I really hate how current pharma companies just put together two drugs like DXM & bupropion and call it new and make insane money off it. Or patenting isomers or long release forms as soon as patents run out.

 

[Fertile]

But if you read the patent, they don't specify that the compounds are all selective 5HT2a ligands.

Thinking about it, the reason we haven't seen 7-methyl AMT or similar is that 8-substituted indole systems are a pain to make. 5-substituted are much more accessible.

 

[Delmonte421]

But if you read the patent, they don't specify that the compounds are all selective 5HT2a ligands.

Thinking about it, the reason we haven't seen 7-methyl AMT or similar is that 8-substituted indole systems are a pain to make. 5-substituted are much more accessible.

Yea looking at it more, putting that methyl in 8th position is way more complicated then it seems at first glance. Those nitrogen's are gonna fuck with most reactions

 

[Mjäll]

The absurdity of intellectual property rears its fugly head in this development

It's a blast

 

[Fertile]

US3296072A deals with the compounds of interest. You can readily see how one goes about producing different alkyl chains.

The Bartoli indole synthesis was likely HOW the 7-methyl indole was produced.

 

[paracelsius]

The absurdity of intellectual property rears its fugly head in this development

It's a blast

Exactly so ridiculous it is unbelievable. I mean it is not 200 tryptamines like the OP said but more like combination 200x500x400x...etc!! like billions of billions of molecules!!! Literally those guys are trying to cover every single imaginable fluorinated indoles in the universe on almost 300 pages! Perfect illustration of the Ego grabing at "mine mine mine, ALL indoles are mine!"..crazy! The irony is that those psychedelics they are dealing with are actually very useful for one thing; KILL THE EGO.

IMHO Markush enumeration should be made illegal like they do in China. Ppl are just abusing the shit out of the system.

 

[Fertile]

If their isn't a synthesis, the patent won't stand. So even if their structural guide does cover a vast number of compounds, it's only those with a synthesis that are covered. BUT it could be used to mount a legal contest in bad faith. that is the dark world of medicinal chemistry in the 21st century.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Anyway, from what I've read, putting a halogen in the 5 position of tryptamine, makes for compouds with sizeable MAOI activity.

 

[Delmonte421]

why would that be and wouldn't it depend on the halogen for its electronegativity?

Anyway, from what I've read, putting a halogen in the 5 position of tryptamine, makes for compouds with sizeable MAOI activity.

 

[fastandbulbous]

why would that be and wouldn't it depend on the halogen for its electronegativity?

Groups that occupy the active site, but prevent the conformational change to he active enzyme structure. OH groups have a lot of imitators

 

[simstim]

I'm glad to see this patent includes some beta keto tryptamines.

I wonder if they protect the tryptamine structure in any way from mao enzymes?

I assume that is why beta keto 2c-b and Beta methoxy 2c-d have four times the duration compared to the non beta substituted 2c series.

For instance would beta keto dmt be protected from mao enzymes and active orally?

I really want to Guinea pig the beta methoxy 3c series that shulgin never made. SAR studies says it's closest to beta keto and solved the problem of primary amine beta ketones forming dimers.