1,4-Butanediol

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VerbalTruist

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Does any one know if it encourages HGH production pre workout? I know that for post-workout it's good for realaxtion. I tried my Google-fu and I'm having trouble. What can you guys teach me? I'm doing cross fit three times a week and cardio 2. Ive hit a serious plateau and I'd like to give myself a little boost. I my diet is fucking SOLID, it's supplemented with some other smaller things like vitamins, but I'd really like way to encourage HGH growth. I'm under the impression that dead lifting is the way to go and I do that post-cross fit three days a week as well.
 
GHB is known to increase hgh production. And butanediol is converted in GHB but no one will ever recommend using GHB as a hgh "booster". It is very unlikely that you will see any benefit from it.
 
Does any one know if it encourages HGH production pre workout? I know that for post-workout it's good for realaxtion. I tried my Google-fu and I'm having trouble. What can you guys teach me? I'm doing cross fit three times a week and cardio 2. Ive hit a serious plateau and I'd like to give myself a little boost. I my diet is fucking SOLID, it's supplemented with some other smaller things like vitamins, but I'd really like way to encourage HGH growth. I'm under the impression that dead lifting is the way to go and I do that post-cross fit three days a week as well.

Can see where your coming from regards 1,4-butanediol converting into GHB.... We've done this before in some detail.. There is suggestion GHB may induce GH, but from memory its negated by prolactin secretion..?
 
little boost, just run a small cycle of test only. 500mg a week of test cyp or enan, for 12 weeks with a simple PCT read the " your first cycle" sticky. Other wise, we would need to see your diet plan for a day laid out, and your training schedule for a week laid out. Shoot us your current stats ( height weight, body fat) your macros, and your goal. Like is your little boost to loose 5 pounds or to gain 10? Also what kind of experience do you have with Performance enhancing drugs, like have you run a steroid cycle before? Also why did you choose 1,4-Butanediol as your substance of choice for your boost? But i digress, I dotn mean to sound like a prat mate but some more info and we can give you better advice. Any way fire back the info and I would be glad to help you in any way possible mate.
 
1,4-Butanediol or GBL or GHB does nothing to increase HGH production. It's a fucking waste and bro science. Years ago it was believed Nubain lowered cortisol and that bro science created a generation of dope fiend bodybuilders and even killed some.

All 1,4-Butanediol will do is put you at risk for becoming addicted to the substance. Narcotics and bodybuilding do not mix. If you want more HGH, go to bed on time and get a full 8 hours of sleep.
 
I get a full 8 hours. Guido, thanks. I'll look for a study.
 
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I get a full 8 hours. Guido, thanks. I'll look for a study.

Its actually one of the best pieces of advice he can give you..... the others are correct training methodology and diet.. If any are out of whack, you won't do shit..!!!


Simultaneous stimulation of slow-wave sleep and growth hormone secretion by gamma-hydroxybutyrate in normal young Men.
E Van Cauter, L Plat, M B Scharf, R Leproult, S Cespedes, M L'Hermite-Balériaux, and G Copinschi


Abstract The aim of this study was to investigate, in normal young men, whether gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB), a reliable stimulant of slow-wave (SW) sleep in normal subjects, would simultaneously enhance sleep related growth hormone (GH) secretion. Eight healthy young men participated each in four experiments involving bedtime oral administration of placebo, 2.5, 3.0, and 3.5 g of GHB. Polygraphic sleep recordings were performed every night, and blood samples were obtained at 15-min intervals from 2000 to 0800. GHB effects were mainly observed during the first 2 h after sleep onset. There was a doubling of GH secretion, resulting from an increase of the amplitude and the duration of the first GH pulse after sleep onset. This stimulation of GH secretion was significantly correlated to a simultaneous increase in the amount of sleep stage IV. Abrupt but transient elevations of prolactin and cortisol were also observed, but did not appear to be associated with the concomitant stimulation of SW sleep. Thyrotropin and melatonin profiles were not altered by GHB administration. These data suggest that pharmacological agents that reliably stimulate SW sleep, such as GHB, may represent a novel class of powerful GH secretagogues.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC508244/

GHB
Powerful Growth Hormone Secretagog
By Ward Dean, M.D.

Most scientific or popular articles that attempt to demonize GHB (gamma hydroxy butyric acid) or its precursors GBL (gamma butyrolactone) or 1, 4 BD (butanediol), include an “obligatory” list of purported benefits attributed to GHB by its supporters. Among these claimed (and usually summarily discounted or dismissed) benefits is that GHB is a powerful secretagog of growth hormone (GH). Growth hormone is one of the many hormones that declines dramatically with age (Fig. 1). Growth hormone has multiple functions in the body, including maintenance of lean body mass, mobilization of fat, counter-acting insulin, enhancing immunity, lowering blood pressure and improving cholesterol levels, increasing energy, and even improved vision. Many physicians are now regularly prescribing growth hormone shots for middle-aged and older men and women for its health enhancing, anti-aging effects; and younger bodybuilders and athletes have been taking growth hormone for years as an anabolic and performance enhancing agent. Consequently, if GHB could truly increase growth hormone release by the pituitary, it would lend credence to the claims of many GHB supporters that it has profound fat-burning and other antiaging effects. Let’s examine the basis for this belief that GHB may increase growth hormone levels.

GHB increases Growth Hormone in Humans and Experimental Animals.
One of the earliest indications of GHB’s potential as a growth hormone stimulator was the study by Oyama and Takiguchi (1970), of the department of anesthesiology, Hirosaki University in Japan. They evaluated the effects of GHB—when used as a general anesthetic— on 10 patients (ranging in age from 14 to 48) undergoing surgery. The scientists found that after infusion of an average of 6 gm GHB, growth hormone levels rose significantly (6 times higher than controls!) and remained elevated for approximately two hours. They also noted no change in insulin or glucose levels. This is very significant, as exogenously administered GH (i.e., by injections) tends to be diabetogenic, and tends to act as an insulin antagonist. Seven years later Takahara and his colleagues (1977a) evaluated the effects of GHB on growth hormone in six males, aged 25-40. Each subject was given 2.5 gm GHB intravenously. Not surprisingly, five of the subjects fell asleep within 20 minutes of the infusion, and slept for 30-150 minutes. GH levels began to climb after the infusion, reached a peak at 60 minutes, and then gradually declined (Fig. 2). Takahara and his team continued to performed studies on humans regarding growth hormone and GHB, with similar results (1977b; 1980).

In 1980, scientists at the National Institute of Health and Medical Research in France evaluated the GH-stimulating effects of GHB in 20 rats. After intraperitoneal administration of 100 mg/100 gm bodyweight, GH levels rose significantly (Fig. 3) (Bluet-Pajot, et al, 1980). Other studies which confirmed GHB’s GHstimulating effects in humans included those of Yunoki (1982), and Gerra and colleagues (1994). In 1997, yet another study was conducted with the specific purpose of determining whether GHB would enhance sleep and increase GH secretion in normal subjects. In this study, eight healthy subjects ranging in age from 24-28 participated. GHB dosages of 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 gm were administered at bedtime once per week to at least 7 of the 8 subjects. The only “adverse effect” noted by any of the subjects was a feeling of inebriation by five of the subjects. Consistent with previous studies, the durations of stages III and IV sleep were increased. These are thought to be the most restful and restorative sleep stages, and are also the stages in which growth hormone is maximally released. Figure 4 shows the effect of the low, medium and high doses of GHB on growth hormone, compared with placebo. (Van Cauter, et al, 1997). (Fig. 4). Interestingly, Dr. Martin Scharf is one of the most eminent researchers in the world on the beneficial effects of GHB on narcolepsy, a severe sleep disorder. Van Cauter and Scharf have applied for a U.S. Patent, “Use of gamma-hydroxybutyrate for the stimulation of sleeprelated growth hormone secretion.” This patent describes the use of GHB to reestablish normal nighttime growth hormone secretion in adults, by administering GHB just before retiring.

Long-Term Studies
Until recently, no one had studied the long-term efficacy of GHB’s growth hormone stimulating effects. Michael Farley, a Florida-based naturopathic physician, has conducted a unique study that will allow us to make some inferences. Dr. Farley evaluated the growth hormone stimulating effects of a dietary supplement (RenewTrient) — gamma butyrolactone (GBL). GBL converts rapidly in the body into GHB, resulting in clinical effects virtually identical to those caused by GHB. Farley’s study was designed to evaluate the effect of GBL on GH, IGF-1, and glucose (an indirect indicator of GH levels). The test subjects included 10 males (aged 28-53). Three had used GBL nightly for over one year, while seven had not previously used it. Farley noted elevations of growth hormone and IGF1, and reductions in blood sugar in all subjects. However, those who had not previously used GBL had higher levels of growth hormone and IGF1, and greater reductions in blood sugar than the “experienced” GBL users. For example, the average increase from baseline to a peak at 60 minutes ranged from 0.56 to 7.1 NG/ML for the seven GBL “non-users.” The four subjects who used GBL for over one year had average values of 0.5 to 2.4 NG/ML, respectively. The GH response of the five test subjects with the highest initial glucose levels was compared with the GH response of those with the lowest initial glucose levels. The average GH level in those with the lowest initial glucose levels increased from 0.52 NG/ML at baseline to 7.42 NG/ML at the 60 minute peak. In contrast, those with the highest blood glucose levels started with an average GH level of .5 NG/ML at baseline and rose to only 3.66 NG/ML at the 60 minute peak.

Observations
Farley found that test subjects who had the lowest blood glucose levels had the greatest increases in GH. Consequently, he recommends taking GBL on an empty stomach—i.e, about three hours after eating—in order to maximize the release of GH. His findings also seem to indicate that the pituitary responds less vigorously to GBL in those who consume GBL on a daily basis. Again, Farley recommends against long-term daily use, and suggests avoiding GHB and its precursors (GBL and BD) two or three days a week, in order to avoid receptor down-regulation, and to optimize the benefits.

References:
1. Bluet-Pajot, Schaub, C., and Nassiet, J. Growth hormone response to hypoglycemia under gamma hydroxybutyrate narco-analgesia in the rat. Neuroendocrinology, 1978, 26: 141-149.
2. Bluet-Pajot, M.T., Schaub, C., Mounier, F., Segalen, A., Duhault, J., and Kordon, C. Monoaminergic regulation of growth hormone in the rat. J Endocr, 1980, 86: 387-396.
3. Gerra, G., Marcato, A., Fertonani, A., Avanzini, P., et al. Gamma hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) and neuroendocrine function in humans. Neuroendocrinol Lett, 1994, 16: 1, 55-63.
4. Oyama, T., and Takiguchi, M. Effects of gamma hydroxybutyrate and surgery on plasma human growth hormone and insulin levels. Agressologie, 1970, 11: 3, 289-298.
5. Takahara, Jiro, Yunoki, Sho, Yakushiji, Wataru, et al. Stimulatory effects of gamma hydroxybutyric acid on growth hormone and prolactin release in humans. J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 1977, 44: 1014- 1017.
6. Takahara, Jiro, Yunoki, Sho, Yakushiji, Wataru, Yamauchi, J., Ofuji, N., et al. Effects of gamma hydroxybutyric acid and gamma amino beta hydroxybutyric acid on growth hormone, prolactin, LH, FSH, TSH and cortisol secretion in man. Program of the 59th Annual Meeting of the Endocrine Society, Chicago, IL, 1977, 254.
7. Takahara, Jiro, Yunoki, Sho, Hosogi, Hidemi, Yakushiji, Wataru, et al. Concomitant increases in serum growth hormone and hypothalamic somatostatin in rats after injection of gamma aminobutyric acid, aminooxyacetic acid, or gamma hydroxybutyric acid. Endocrinology, 1980, 106: 343-347.
8. Van Cauter, Eve, Plat, Laurence, Scharf, Martin B., Leproult, Rachel, Cespedes, Sonya, L’Hermite- Baleriaux, Mireille, and Copinschi, Georges. Simultaneous stimulation of slow-wave sleep and growth hormone secretion by gamma-hydroxybutyrate in normal young men. J Clin Invest, 1997, 100: 3, 745-753.
9. Van Cauter, Eve, and Scharf, Martin B. Use of gamma hydroxybutyrate for the stimulation of sleep-related growth hormone secretion. U.S. Patent application 485,059, 7 June 1995, 42 pp.
10. Vescovi, P.P., and Coiro, V. Persistence of defective serotonergic and GABAergic controls of growth hormone secretion in long-term abstinent alcoholics. Alcohol and Alcoholism, 1997a, 32: 1, 85-90.
11. Vescovi, P.P., and Di Gennaro, C. Di. Failure of gammahydroxybutyric acid to stimulate growth hormone secretion in cocaine addicts. Neurpoeptides, 1997b, 31: 5, 459-462.
12. Yunoki, Sho. Studies of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GAGA) and its metabolite on the control mechanism of secretion of anterior pituitary hormones. Part II. Effects of gamma-hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) on secretion of anterior pituitary hormones in human subjects. Okayama Igakkai Zasshi, 1982, 94: 899-913
http://warddeanmd.com/ghb-powerful-growth-hormone-secretagog/
 
I was more curious as to why he chose what he chose as his PED, of inquiry. I mean I would under stand if he was asking about say tren but GHB? I figured there was something behind that aside from the tired ass it helps with GH. because frankly you know what helps with gh GH! I was trying to see what his training and diet is like. I am always suspect when some one says and I quote " my diet is fucking SOLID" . I hate when people get an answer contrary to what they want and then pout lol One of my instructors at ranger school use to say " If you don't want the answer don't ask the fucking question" lol applies here to a lot of people just want a rationale to do what they want, no mater how convoluted. I can honestly say i have been training for some time now and my diet is good but there is always room to improve diet and training. The moment I think I have made all the right moves its time to check the map. but I digress.
 
^^^so my tren enanthate only cycle for first cycle is a bad idea??? Lmao

where's renz been? He was pretty experienced with ghb and its effects on gh and bodybuilding.
 
It's a shame he's not a bit more active in SD........ He's got a thread running at the moment on Neuscience & Pharmacology discussion:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/647911-Phenibut-onset-time-and-metabolism

Phenibut is another drug that's shit. It's a prescription narcotic in Russia given to cosmonauts and people suffering anxiey but a supplement here sold on Amazon. Go figure eh? The stuff has some serious withdrawal symptoms. I used it without doing proper research and ended up addicted for a few months and taking up to 8 grams a day. I tried quitting cold turkey and had a siezure and panic attack. I had to do a 3 month taper. I won't touch that shit again.
 
I was more curious as to why he chose what he chose as his PED, of inquiry. I mean I would under stand if he was asking about say tren but GHB? I figured there was something behind that aside from the tired ass it helps with GH. because frankly you know what helps with gh GH! I was trying to see what his training and diet is like. I am always suspect when some one says and I quote " my diet is fucking SOLID" . I hate when people get an answer contrary to what they want and then pout lol One of my instructors at ranger school use to say " If you don't want the answer don't ask the fucking question" lol applies here to a lot of people just want a rationale to do what they want, no mater how convoluted. I can honestly say i have been training for some time now and my diet is good but there is always room to improve diet and training. The moment I think I have made all the right moves its time to check the map. but I digress.

He's using it recreationally, and just wondered about its effects on performance.
 
@ FlyYeah I was aware there fly I just wanted to see if he had the stones to come out and say or if he was going to do what he did.

@ Guido- The WDs were that bad from the Phenibut eh? I have at times used it for insomnia, never more then a gram and not more then two days in a row but damn that is a rough WD. I knew it was an RX but I had no idea that the symptoms from withdraw where that severe. I mean I had heard about the anxiety and some issues with breathing and heart rate issues, and the fact that tolerance was developed quickly, should have figured though a lot of these nootropic RCs are strong shit.
 
Phenibut acts similar to how benzos and the new rc "benzos" (real term eludes me currently) and other gaba affecting drugs. Id imagine the withdrawals to be nasty along with possible issues elevating prolactin like some benzos do.
 
Get some HGH in and of itself.
exactly

@ bluelovemango no one here uses SWIM mate. And largely its bunk bro science like Guido said man. In the end the compound becomes a trap, and the justification of increased HGH release is really bullshit. You want better gains, get on a better diet and training program. you want an edge get on a basic cycle of test, and then slowly work your way up to using HGH properly. These are tools not ways to cut corners or get around shitty diet, training and habits like shitty sleep. Also using the justification of studying better on it is bs aw well man, nut up and study properly. trust me any time I studied on some thing I lost valuable time I could have dedicated And I mean seriously dedicated to studying properly. Listen I under stand the need to cut loose and relax but dont justify taking shit with half assed nonsense justifications.
 
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@ Mango sorry for sounding agro there chief. It is the steroids board lol the testosterone is high round here. Congrats on the PHD attempt brother I am in that boat my self ( currently at UPenn all my under grad work was at Cornell) This was interrupted by 6 years in the service Army Ranger retired a Capt - well decorated, sorry I came off hostile, stick around mate it is nice to have another voice in the chorus that is able to speak well and keep a level head while defending his position I respect that. Also always nice to meet a fellow academic and part time psycho-naught degenerate ^-^

What are you currently in the PHD program for mate if you do not mind me asking?
 
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