Stimulants 4-MMC - a victim of disappearing polymorphism?

[4DQSAR]

Well, you have clearly done your homework. Do these supplements typically contain heavy metals? We don't seem to get them in the UK as even under the 'traditional herbal medicine' loophole, a list of ALL componants (in order of %) still has to be on the livery and in the PIL.

 

[Pastel]

I got screwed pretty badly once by a vendor I was ordering MXE from. It was quality stuff. Until I placed that large order and he sent me a bag of inert powder.

I've seen selective scamming, but I also have seen one case when vendor didn't know what he was selling and made good on it. This was just before mephedrone was banned. I got a small order and instead of the needles of the size that I was accustomed to, those crystals were more like large NaCl crystals. Both me and my friend got very unpleasant overstimulation from 250mg oral dosages with no traces of serotonin activation. Felt nauseous. Yet, by that time I had experience with 4-MEC, 4-EMC and several other cathinones. That chemical felt different. When I wrote to the vendor, he asked me what I wanted instead and allowed me to send the stuff back to him and sent me the equal amount of methylone. Since feeling nauseous seems to have been the only side-effect - it's been 16 year - he turned out to be a good guy in the end!

 

[Pastel]

Well, you have clearly done your homework. Do these supplements typically contain heavy metals? We don't seem to get them in the UK as even under the 'traditional herbal medicine' loophole, a list of ALL componants (in order of %) still has to be on the livery and in the PIL.

You just don't know unless you test. It's an unregulated industry. As a consumer, you get the benefit - lower cost by orders of magnitude. But you also get the risks.

 

[4DQSAR]

In the UK, traditional herbal medicines (THMs) must meet strict safety and quality standards set by the Human Medicines Regulations 2012, enforced by the MHRA. Products must show a Traditional Herbal Registration (THR) number or a Product Licence (PL) number to guarantee safety, quality, and manufacturing standards

 

[Pastel]

In the UK, traditional herbal medicines (THMs) must meet strict safety and quality standards set by the Human Medicines Regulations 2012, enforced by the MHRA. Products must show a Traditional Herbal Registration (THR) number or a Product Licence (PL) number to guarantee safety, quality, and manufacturing standards

OK, so it sounds like ginseng supplements sold in UK will have the specifically stated levels of active ginsenosides. But what about things such as various racetams, sources of choline(alpha-gpc, DMAE, etc), modafinil metabolites (CRL-40,940, CRL-40,941), things like Bromantane and PRL-8-53, peptides and the like?

Are these things available? They are not gray area legal highs, but performance enhancers. Fortunately, they are not regulated in US, though big pharma would love that. But there is the other side which I mentioned.

 

[General alcazar]

I think anytime you use some powder or other drug/supplement you purchased online, you have to accept it’s a gamble. I shudder to think of the crap I must have inadvertently ingested over the decades. Sadly, it’s a consequence you have to accept if you want to use any synthetic mind altering drug, unless you have your own personal GC, NMR, or whatever. That said, I think most of the research chemicals I acquired over the 90s to late 2010s were probably reasonably pure. In the present day, I wouldn’t trust anything I could acquire, except maybe nootropics or peptides. It’s what I most appreciated during the golden age of research chemicals. For the most part, you got what you ordered. Alas, those days are gone forever…

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

I've seen selective scamming, but I also have seen one case when vendor didn't know what he was selling and made good on it.

I knew right away it wasn't MXE. Just from the look and feel of the powder. It went from that high quality pre-UK ban material to what looked like baking powder.

I asked him wtf was up and why he'd done this after we'd been on good terms for so long. He apologized and offered to make it right. But a few weeks before he'd started selling fent. Then there were rumors that he was getting high on his own supply and shortly after that he'd ODed and died. Lots of people complained their orders didn't show up and he was never seen again.

After that I switched to another source for MXE which was really good guy to work with. Thankfully, I didn't lose too much on that scam order. But the quality of the material wasn't as good because the source had switched to a Chinese synth and you could tell it wasn't as pure just by the color. Still fire though. I did a lot of business with that guy until I moved to a state that had banned MXE by name like a week before I moved there. When I tried to order from him again he got spooked by the new address and refused to do business with me any more. I tried to get him to send it to my old address and have it forwarded to my new address from there on my own. But he wouldn't go for it. He assumed I was the police and that was the end of doing business with him.

Probably for the best because at the time I was doing enough MXE on the daily to convince myself that I was going to make history with a speech I planned to give after walking to DC to address the masses on the White House lawn.

It wasn't long after that MXE vanished from the market anyway.

 

[General alcazar]

I miss MXE. What a cool drug…

 

[4DQSAR]

Are these things available?

No

 

[matt<3ketamine]

I'm sure a lot of others have figured this out but it's worth saying again: If anything interesting comes on to the market that you really like it's a good idea to buy and store 1-2 lifetime supplies of the chemical and keep it in stable conditions. Since you may never ever get a chance to purchase it again. 4-mmc is just one of many substances that have either vanished from the market all together or the "post-ban" version was very different from the original batches going around. Never mind the price hike that comes once a chemical gains legal attention (e.g. $15 a gram substance suddenly sold for $50+ a gram then once fully illegal $100+ a gram for very inferior product).

This is something i wish i had done with MXE: i've never seen a cancer patient go from pain, to walking round to the shops with a smile and not wobbling. Ketamine worked well for pain but she could barely walk. Then once MXE was literally banned worldwide with no real good reason: it disappeared.
The first chemist to re-make real MXE, will be a millionaire. It's got it's on section on DNM's with 0 sellers for some reason. A MASSIVE gap for something with, not just recreational values, but so much medical potential barely anyone saw. So i have a theory that it IS a great: antidepressant, pain killer (even phantom pain) and safer version over ketamine, thus it MUST be banned world wide, perhaps thanks to pharmaceutical industry + good ol' daft drug policy pushing, to stop anyone from discovering those massive benefits over their: antidepressants, pain killers and ketamine.

(also, i do wonder why ket also feels less 'special' these days, it lacks the 'psychedelic k holes' now compared to when india was BLASTING it out everywhere (smuggled in Horlicks tubs lol fucking BBC showed the world's police how the whole operation worked whilst getting a free 10gram sample) and the places producing 's isomer' are actually not producing S isomer but just racemic and calling it that. That or it's just synthed in less purer conditions or its more cut these days (but barely any lab testing places tell you what cuts are in it, only active ingredients and maybe by-products from the bad synths)

 

[4DQSAR]

MXE is patented.

The problem is that it takes an average of 13 years from patent to licence so TBH, it's too late now and while (S) MXE may be patentable, K works most of the time so it doesn't offer a large enough clinical advantage (and (S) MXE would make it more costly).

CMXE however, was patented but that patent expired. BUT importantly, the original CMXE patent does cover it's use as an analgesic so one could in theory patent the usage then evergreen the patent by obtaining a second patent for (S) CMXE - it's even more potent so per-dose is cheaper than K and MXE.

 

[Pastel]

MXE is patented.

The problem is that it takes an average of 13 years from patent to licence so TBH, it's too late now and while (S) MXE may be patentable, K works most of the time so it doesn't offer a large enough clinical advantage (and (S) MXE would make it more costly).

CMXE however, was patented but that patent expired. BUT importantly, the original CMXE patent does cover it's use as an analgesic so one could in theory patent the usage then evergreen the patent by obtaining a second patent for (S) CMXE - it's even more potent so per-dose is cheaper than K and MXE.

I cannot find a patent for MXE. Do you have a link to it?
I was marvelling a few days ago at how much Transend Therapeutics simplified methylone synthesis. It is basically a two step reaction with two more purification phases. Everything with an exception of methylamine is available from chemical supply companies as an unwatched chemical. I have not checked any dark marketplaces for about 3 years, but would be surprised if nobody is making it, given how simple the synthesis is.

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/14/05/6b/511e6e393fdca7/WO2024086218A1.pdf

Methylone being in phase 3 testing, I am really curious how FDA will reclassify it. I assume that they will have to reclassify it, since it is being targeted for a legitimate medical use. I am also very curious what the protocol will be for different patient categories. Without benzo use the agitation tail is about five hours. The afterglow though lasts 2-3 days. And I assume that's what they are looking for PTSD treatment.

 

[4DQSAR]

I believe the MXE patent was written in Chinese. I suspect that at least one reason that it was done that way was so the inventor's name isn't simple to locate and possibly also similar to why McNeil obtained a GB patent for CXME - it proves a prior claim without actually being visible enough to allow someone to rip-off the synthesis.