US Politics Conservative or liberal
- Thread starter M1sterEd
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what happens when we are constantly presented with two evils and we must choose the lesser and over numerous elections the lesser evil always adopts the rhetoric of the greater evil
do we still have the obligation to fall in line and just say "oh well the alternative is way worse!" and ignore where things are heading inevitability?
I'd rather not kick the can down the road and demand more of the people who are supposed to represent us
mal3volent
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Well, you can say it is, but when you say shit like Harris wouldn't have been noticeably better, or you actually refuse to vote for her when she was the only viable alternative... I begin to question whether your words are authentic.
The post I was referring to was clearly making the argument that Kamala would've just been priming us for another Trump figure to take over. I don't really buy that argument and I see it as a way of downplaying the responsibility non voters have in the events that are currently unfolding.
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
So you’re saying people should have voted for Kamala cos she was the lesser of two evils. Okay, I kinda agree. Hate it but reals is reals.
I just don’t see where the Trump stuff being no biggie fits your point. That shit was kinda buckwild tbh.
I just don’t see where the Trump stuff being no biggie fits your point. That shit was kinda buckwild tbh.
mal3volent
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Exactly my point Ali.
What type of person would say Trump is a fascist, a Nazi, a rapist, etc, and then choose not to vote for his only viable opponent?
I have heard from many who chose not to vote or voted third party.
Sure, it is their right, but it is also my right to not take them seriously when they say how much they despise Trump.
Because they had their chance, and they chose to sit it out.
And even the ones who will admit they held their nose and voted for Harris-- they still defend the ones who didn't. In what other context would they ever make excuses for Nazi enablers?
What purpose does this "two sides of the same coin" rhetoric serve if not to undercut the ability of democrats to win in the future. What needs to happen is when we have a Democratic president, that's the time to keep this same energy and push for reforms then. Not such a good idea to wait until ICE raids are happening and people are losing their healthcare. That's all I'm saying.
mal3volent
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The time to demand more is when those people are in power and have the ability to make changes.
If the option is kicking the can down the road and buying time to achieve something better vs what's happening now.
Then yes, the compassionate and logical choice is to kick the can.
mal3volent
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I think maybe just reread what I've said. I don't know how to be more clear. I wasn't saying that I think the Trump stuff is no big deal. I clearly think it is. I was saying that the ones who stayed home and jerked off that day instead of voting for Mamala obviously think there's no big difference between the two. Which is ridiculous.
this is interesting, you have said this many times now insinuating that I did not vote
I have told you, at least 8 times by now, that I did vote and I voted for kamala. the fact that you ignore this fact, after being informed numerous times, indicates to me that you are not engaging with my statements in good faith
it is the responsibility of the politicians to offer the change, not to run on the same platform and what we just believe in our hearts that they'll do something different than what they say? absolute nonsense
why didn't anything change when biden was in office? Obama?
its the Democratic party that is failing to offer something different not the voters. as I said previously, you're pointing fingers at the voters when they aren't given good options
so you can either continue fighting this non voting sgoti straw man you have constructed or you can engage with my words in good faith
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mal3volent
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Give it a rest man. I never specified you as not voting for her because yes i remember you saying that you did. Stop trying to paint people as bad faith just because you don't agree with them.
Even if you did vote for her I still think you're doing a lot of damage by making excuses for those who didn't. That's my opinion. Are we still entitled to those here? Our have you already reported me for some bullshit reason?
is it wrong for people to express their unhappiness or does everyone need to fit into your framework
liberals historically side with fascists because they're too scared to make any real changes, that's why the democratic party is a bunch of do nothings
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if I'm making excuses for voters, why are you making excuses for the democratic party? they're the ones with the power
shh don't get too upset now peasants you just need to vote harder next time!
shh don't get too upset now peasants you just need to vote harder next time!
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mal3volent
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Pretty sure this is way more bad faith than anything I've said. You should probably try setting a better example.
How the fuck does liberalism even work? Like no eww im not voting for them
by defending the democratic party instead of the people?
the people have more of a right to exist than a political party, maybe the party should try serving the people for once
the politicians want people to be placated and you seem to be all for that, happy to be corrected but I have yet to see anything that would convince me otherwise
jasperkent
Bluelighter
FWIW, I never saw Harris as "the lesser of two evils."
I was looking forward to her Presidency two years before the campaign.
I was looking forward to her Presidency two years before the campaign.
We are talking about Liberalism and Conservativism with capital letters, or liberalism and conservatism in the everyday sense?
Conservativism just means that ideas and ways of doing things get conserved. It tends to reflect older, more mature adults who have crystalized knowledge and experience from life about what works and what doesn't, and believe that knowledge should be formalized into rules of governance. Liberalism means freedom from strictures and rules that obstruct progress and allow for meaningful, necessary changes. It tends to reflect younger people who see problems with the way the previous generation did things, and want to make changes.
They both serve important functions, both can be visionary, both can be short-sighted, and both can become radicalized and paternalistic. We need both.
In my opinion the US and the western world in general does not have a conservative vs. liberal problem, it has a neo-liberal problem that is using the conservative/liberal paradigm to keep people fighting while they divide and conquer. We are dealing with globalist powers who supersede national sovereignty at this point, and who adapt within each individual nation by identifying the nation's political factions and manipulating them for greed and power.
Conservativism just means that ideas and ways of doing things get conserved. It tends to reflect older, more mature adults who have crystalized knowledge and experience from life about what works and what doesn't, and believe that knowledge should be formalized into rules of governance. Liberalism means freedom from strictures and rules that obstruct progress and allow for meaningful, necessary changes. It tends to reflect younger people who see problems with the way the previous generation did things, and want to make changes.
They both serve important functions, both can be visionary, both can be short-sighted, and both can become radicalized and paternalistic. We need both.
In my opinion the US and the western world in general does not have a conservative vs. liberal problem, it has a neo-liberal problem that is using the conservative/liberal paradigm to keep people fighting while they divide and conquer. We are dealing with globalist powers who supersede national sovereignty at this point, and who adapt within each individual nation by identifying the nation's political factions and manipulating them for greed and power.
I fins it very odd that conservatism is associated with old people and liberalism with young. I have met plenty of left leaning older people, more than the number of conservatives
Shambles
Bluelight Crew
I am old. I am neither conservative nor liberal (liberal, to me, simply means conservative with some socially liberal ideas).
I am a leftist through and through.
To be clear, not a Communist or anything so extreme, simply a centre-left individual. The precise demographic left out of all political conversations it seems![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
I am a leftist through and through.
To be clear, not a Communist or anything so extreme, simply a centre-left individual. The precise demographic left out of all political conversations it seems
I am old. I am neither conservative nor liberal (liberal, to me, simply means conservative with some socially liberal ideas).
I am a leftist through and through.
To be clear, not a Communist or anything so extreme, simply a centre-left individual. The precise demographic left out of all political conversations it seems
You raise an interesting point, which is that among conservatives, and among liberals, they also accuse each other of being too conservative or too liberal. As a moderate/centrist, I have experienced this!
The conservatives of today would be considered very liberal 30-50 years ago.