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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Global Politics Forced rehab in Alberta

The_Selecter said:
I see where some people could benefit from being taken off the streets and drugs. But just getting them clean is not the answer to their problems
Of course the government says that everything will be very professional and only for the benefit of the people but we all know how politicians and also other leaders say whatever they need to get their agendas approved
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pixies+ said:
I also agree with this. Getting sober is amazing and it’s a great place to start.. but it’s not a magic fix. For some it could be great. For most, they’re likely going to end up right back where they started. People need a ton of support after years of addiction/mental health issues, and living in rough, dangerous situations. I’m sure there are a select few government officials that want to help and actually have empathy for addicts. A very select few.
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The problem is that our forced treatment options (what I would refer to as involuntary hospitalizations) are incredibly lacking in effectiveness at this time.

Where is the job training?

Where is the criminal records reform?

Where is the pathway to autonomy through progressively more independent levels of care/living - when I went through treatment I was in a detox, then a short term residential, and then a halfway house. Each step increased personal accountability and autonomy, while also decreasing support as I went. It became increasingly up to me to find my own supports in the community as I became healthier.

Rehabilitation is a whole-person, multi step, delicate process. I can't speak for Alberta, but these things aren't treated with humanity in the US in many places these days....
 
paranoid android said:

Fucking fascists this is some fuck shit
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At the end of the day - who are we as a society if we let people who are struggling with addiction and no pathway out atrophy and succumb helpless and alone on the streets. There are many people whose addiction and mental illness push them to a point of being incapable of really being able to make informed decisions about what is best for them. This is far from the norm, not a majority of cases nor even a substantial minority, but still there are significant numbers of people whose trajectory have moved them so far away from being capable of self-assessment and participation in society that their future becomes increasingly bleak, and society will ultimately foot the bill for their continued existence regardless.

As a society, we have to consider what to do about these cases. I've worked with so many people over the years who fall into this category - incapable of helping themselves and unable to self assess adequately enough to know that they need help, by reason of mental illness and chronic impairment. Do we as a society just let them rot?

I believe that there has to be some alternative path between imprisonment and absolute freedom to the point of individual and societal harm. There have been humane treatment models in the past, they just weren't funded and maintained well and they became increasingly dystopian. I'd like to believe that humans are capable of reimagining these things and trying to learn from the mistakes of the past.
 
tryptakid said:
At the end of the day - who are we as a society if we let people who are struggling with addiction and no pathway out atrophy and succumb helpless and alone on the streets. There are many people whose addiction and mental illness push them to a point of being incapable of really being able to make informed decisions about what is best for them. This is far from the norm, not a majority of cases nor even a substantial minority, but still there are significant numbers of people whose trajectory have moved them so far away from being capable of self-assessment and participation in society that their future becomes increasingly bleak, and society will ultimately foot the bill for their continued existence regardless.
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you said it far better than I could. this pretty much sums up how I feel about it as well.

January 2023 was the end of a 6-7 month long coke/opi binge. I was under 100 pounds and was shooting up into my neck because I had destroyed what was left of the crooks of my arms from previous use. I went into drug induced psychosis and had absolutely no sense of reality. I thought people were living under my house in the crawl space. I was convinced someone had made a trap door under my bed from the crawl space.. along with the inside of my walls in my closet. I thought Pokémon cards were talking to me. I was outside every night throwing rocks into the bushes, etc. It was pretty rough. One night, I kept flicking the main breaker on and off to my house, had my doors open and was screaming complete nonsense to myself. Next thing I knew, the cops and an ambulance were at my door for a wellness check. I’m assuming one of my neighbours had called. They said they weren’t leaving until I agreed to go to the psych ward.
I had more drugs to do and was fucking furious.
My parents showed up and after 3 hours or so they convinced the cops that they would watch me to make sure I didn’t hurt myself or go anywhere. My parents live very close to me. The only way they would leave me alone was if I gave them my car keys and agreed to go to the hospital the next day. They stayed up watching my house. I don’t remember much about that night or the next day but I ended up going in. I had 10 dilaudid left and put them in my bra. I managed to crush them up in the bathroom and slept for almost 3 days straight.

I had an abscess on each arm and one beginning on my neck. I was a fucking mess.. As angry as I was at the time at whoever called the cops, I’m now incredibly grateful to whoever it was. I was a fucking mess and desperately needed the wake up call.

There’s not a doubt in my mind that they helped save my life.
 
i was in the psych ward when i went psychotic about 6 years ago now and my experence being locked up against my will was horrible. The first night i was in there i was seen by a doc who refused to give me my meds so i promptly knocked his ass to the floor. From there i was thrown in solitary and injected with ativan which of course did nothing. I was in there 3 months unmedicated so honestly i dont trust the Canadian medical system to treat people like actual patients.

I was actually treated better when i was arrested then when i was picked up because i needed psychiatric help
 
paranoid android said:
i was in the psych ward when i went psychotic about 6 years ago now and my experence being locked up against my will was horrible. The first night i was in there i was seen by a doc who refused to give me my meds so i promptly knocked his ass to the floor. From there i was thrown in solitary and injected with ativan which of course did nothing. I was in there 3 months unmedicated so honestly i dont trust the Canadian medical system to treat people like actual patients.

I was actually treated better when i was arrested then when i was picked up because i needed psychiatric help
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I completely empathize with your situation. I despise anyone in the medical field that treats addicts or people with mental health struggles like they’re not worth their time or energy. It infuriates me.

I’m Canadian as well. Ive had experiences on both sides of the spectrum.

I think this is going to be very challenging for those in charge and the addicts that this is going to affect. I assume this is going to be geared towards the more extreme cases though, and I also assume it will probably be a case by case type thing… but I really don’t know. I don’t know enough about it.

I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong. I just wanted to share my thoughts.

As a mother, I cannot say that I’d be able to sit back and watch my own child, or any family member for that matter that was in a position like the one I was in, and not do anything about it even if it was against their will. I would’ve killed myself had someone not done something about it. For all I know, it was actually my parents that called. I never found out and I don’t really care.. My child didn’t have to lose her mom. My parents didn’t have to lose their child. Im thankful. I understand not everyone sees it that way.

Do you have any idea what would make someone a “candidate”?
 
pixies+ said:
I completely empathize with your situation. I despise anyone in the medical field that treats addicts or people with mental health struggles like they’re not worth their time or energy. It infuriates me.

I’m Canadian as well. Ive had experiences on both sides of the spectrum.

I think this is going to be very challenging for those in charge and the addicts that this is going to affect. I assume this is going to be geared towards the more extreme cases though, and I also assume it will probably be a case by case type thing… but I really don’t know. I don’t know enough about it.

I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong. I just wanted to share my thoughts.

As a mother, I cannot say that I’d be able to sit back and watch my own child, or any family member for that matter that was in a position like the one I was in, and not do anything about it even if it was against their will. I would’ve killed myself had someone not done something about it. For all I know, it was actually my parents that called. I never found out and I don’t really care.. My child didn’t have to lose her mom. My parents didn’t have to lose their child. Im thankful. I understand not everyone sees it that way.

Do you have any idea what would make someone a “candidate”?
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The whole thing is very vague and thats what my brother whos a lawyer does not like. Well that and the whole involuntary thing Whats to say this couldnt be used against marginalized people? Theres lots of room for abuse there.

Likely it willl be used against homeless people. Alot of them are also indigenous so thats just a continuation of former policies
 
paranoid android said:
The whole thing is very vague and thats what my brother whos a lawyer does not like. Well that and the whole involuntary thing Whats to say this couldnt be used against marginalized people? Theres lots of room for abuse there.

Likely it willl be used against homeless people. Alot of them are also indigenous so thats just a continuation of former policies
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I don’t disagree. I can absolutely see how this could go very wrong, very fast. I really do see your points and they’re valid. It’s definitely concerning.

I need to reread it, but does it say who would be “in charge” of committing someone? Would it be a concerned family member/friend/enemy(?) or whoever believes said person needs help regardless of their relationship to the person?
 
pixies+ said:
you said it far better than I could. this pretty much sums up how I feel about it as well.

January 2023 was the end of a 6-7 month long coke/opi binge. I was under 100 pounds and was shooting up into my neck because I had destroyed what was left of the crooks of my arms from previous use. I went into drug induced psychosis and had absolutely no sense of reality. I thought people were living under my house in the crawl space. I was convinced someone had made a trap door under my bed from the crawl space.. along with the inside of my walls in my closet. I thought Pokémon cards were talking to me. I was outside every night throwing rocks into the bushes, etc. It was pretty rough. One night, I kept flicking the main breaker on and off to my house, had my doors open and was screaming complete nonsense to myself. Next thing I knew, the cops and an ambulance were at my door for a wellness check. I’m assuming one of my neighbours had called. They said they weren’t leaving until I agreed to go to the psych ward.
I had more drugs to do and was fucking furious.
My parents showed up and after 3 hours or so they convinced the cops that they would watch me to make sure I didn’t hurt myself or go anywhere. My parents live very close to me. The only way they would leave me alone was if I gave them my car keys and agreed to go to the hospital the next day. They stayed up watching my house. I don’t remember much about that night or the next day but I ended up going in. I had 10 dilaudid left and put them in my bra. I managed to crush them up in the bathroom and slept for almost 3 days straight.

I had an abscess on each arm and one beginning on my neck. I was a fucking mess.. As angry as I was at the time at whoever called the cops, I’m now incredibly grateful to whoever it was. I was a fucking mess and desperately needed the wake up call.

There’s not a doubt in my mind that they helped save my life.
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Jesus christ that must be awful to think about.... I hope that you have space to unpack it somewhere that feels safe and non judgemental. Part of what I try to offer patients of mine is a space like that.

At the end of my run I found a good friend dead from a heroin overdose, and I stole cheese from a supermarket to exchange at the return desk for cash in order to pay for bags of dope that kept me well until my medicaid got turned back on a few weeks later.

Desperate fucking times man. It's why I do this. It's why I do everything that I do - I try to help. I"m not always perfect at it, and I'm not always perfect.

I needed people to kick me in the ass and tell me to sober up, smarten up, and listen for a bit. I was so fucking educated, and so fucking smart... in that drug treatment program that was being offered to me. I could tell you why god wasn't real, and how as an atheist "we agnostics" in the Big Book wasn't worth the paper it was written on. I could speak eloquently about the Dickensian black hole I'd found myself in, aiming for that cunt hair of a distance between a nod and death.

But I couldn't tell you how to get my shit together, or why I'd gotten into that hole to begin with. I couldn't tell you what I needed to do to get out. I needed someone else to do that for me - and the funniest thing was... the people that did, did so with kindness and love. They showed up and wanted to help me. And soon I realized that I could be one of those people if I just put together enough not fucking up time.

I never want to see someone deprived of liberty, and I hate to think about what some of the ghouls that run this parade of fuckery we call the US Government think about our kind, even though most of them are probably our kind in deep fucking denial and a lot of fucking privilege. Still, there's a humanity to taking the reins for someone who just can't for a while, and letting them know that it'll be okay, and then showing them that you meant it.

I'm glad you got through that shit homie. Stay strong. And know that if you ever fucking need anything, I'm here.
 
pixies+ said:
I don’t disagree. I can absolutely see how this could go very wrong, very fast. I really do see your points and they’re valid. It’s definitely concerning.

I need to reread it, but does it say who would be “in charge” of committing someone? Would it be a concerned family member/friend/enemy(?) or whoever believes said person needs help regardless of their relationship to the person?
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Too bad concerned family usually lack the capacity to do this and can make things worse
 
It’s a prison for certain with the best intentions. Fent crisis is spiraling so quick that authorities don’t know how to contain it. If tent fetty users are removed from publicly viewable streets and placed into “treatment” weather they agree or not it appears like thing are improving at least. Honestly just let them get as much dilaudid as fucking possible from the vending machines if you’re going to do that
 
One of the BIGGEST ironies of hardcore fetty west coast usage is the term “clean” to designate a specific flavor and grade of fetty that is a cocktail poised to offer incredibly enticing and enjoyable opiate like euphoria. It could even have nitazenes in it. Most def has slim dose of tranq to hold that fentanyl on your receptors so you can feel good from the sprinklings of more euphoric fentanyl or analogs or even stims, is probably tearing your organs apart at the seams puff by puff but you can’t tell because the combo numbs you to the damage but not to the dopamine and euphoria from opiate receptors.

Hey man did you get some clean?
Huh? Oh yeah I stopped getting Darrel’s fetty or some Juan’s tar.

I got clean

It s the best I pay three times for it.

You use drugs man?

No man I’m on clean.

Did you sober up?
yeah I got the clean

Man I need to get clean

I need to get some clean too bro
 
LSDiesel said:
One of the BIGGEST ironies of hardcore fetty west coast usage is the term “clean” to designate a specific flavor and grade of fetty that is a cocktail poised to offer incredibly enticing and enjoyable opiate like euphoria. It could even have nitazenes in it. Most def has slim dose of tranq to hold that fentanyl on your receptors so you can feel good from the sprinklings of more euphoric fentanyl or analogs or even stims, is probably tearing your organs apart at the seams puff by puff but you can’t tell because the combo numbs you to the damage but not to the dopamine and euphoria from opiate receptors.

Hey man did you get some clean?
Huh? Oh yeah I stopped getting Darrel’s fetty or some Juan’s tar.

I got clean

It s the best I pay three times for it.

You use drugs man?

No man I’m on clean.

Did you sober up?
yeah I got the clean

Man I need to get clean

I need to get some clean too bro
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They stole the word for recovery and appropriated it to be another type of drug.

Capitalism subsumes all critique.
 
tryptakid said:
I agree. Despite my belief in personal autonomy when it comes to substance use, I also believe in the state's obligation to provide institutions for treatment and recovery for those who are incapable of making choices in their own best interest.

Allowing people to delude themselves into believing that the best life they can get is numbing themselves with neurotoxic opioids while living in stolen tents on public land is inhumane.
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its the government's fault this happened in the first place. if they truly wanted to fix things they would change drug laws although it does seem like Canada may be on that path

the system fails people on a constant basis and we love to point the finger at the individual who fell through the massive cracks instead of the system with the cracks
 
Conky said:
Too bad concerned family usually lack the capacity to do this and can make things worse
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pixies+ said:
I agree.
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Typically a plea for involuntary commitment is initiated by family, certain professionals in the community (police, clergy, public health officials), or specific care providers (PCP/psych) who petition the court and request involuntary commitment be considered. Plaintiffs are able to make their case as to why someone is incapable of making choices on their own behalf, and can present evidence to that point. It's up to a judge to weigh the evidence at hand, the wishes of the person in question, and whether the right to individual liberty is overrided by the likelihood of serious harm/lack of ability of the individual to self determine their own best interest.
 
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