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America needs libertarianism

Vlatrone

Vlatrone

Ex-Bluelighter
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Sep 27, 2011
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As well all know the economy sucks, and I blame progressive politics(and some conservative politics). We have a goddamn socialist as our president with a healthcare bill fucking up the healthcare system and economic policies thats downright socialism interfering with the free market. We need to GET RID OF OBAMA, completely deregulate all business, privatize social security, abolish medicare, legalize and tax drugs and prostitution and gambling, abolish all government execpt the police and some of the military(and GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST), get rid of income taxes for the fair tax, and LET THE FREE MARKET BE FUCKING FREE. As for healthcare, i like Ron Paul's plan. Lets make America a free country thats free of big government.

Then you'll see the economy turn around. What do you think?
 
Why would most economic problems to date be caused by "progressive" interventions into the economy by the state? Why would a system of 'self-regulating' markets necessarily deliver near-optimum (or even favorable) results?

ebola
 
I'm for plenty of the Paul agenda, but I do get weary about deregulating environmental protections and the lack of safety nets due to the unpredictable nature of capitalist business. You can be up one day and finished the next. Lots of anxiety in the unregulated capitalist market.

The debate between privatization vs. state control is really not the point for me. Lots of state beaurocracies fuck shit up and likewise many private businesses go under all the time too. It still comes down to the quality of leadership and the character of those who call the shots and are employed in these institutions. You still have opportunities to have shitty human beings running either.

Ending the role of the the U.S. as policeman of the world and ending the "grand crusade against jihad" will certainly help the economy turn around.
 
Vlatrone said:
...socialism interfering with the free market
...completely deregulate all business
Click to expand...
the free market has shown that it can't solve problems like healthcare in this country. also, i find, generally speaking, that those in favour of deregulation are all about it until corporations prove yet again that they can't be trusted (e.g. enron, gulf oil spill, etc.) then it's all obama's fault for not regulating enough...

i find, again generally speaking, that the anti-government lobby isn't anti-government - they want a government which is just big enough for those on their side and all their friends.

:\

alasdair
 
I just threw up in my mouth.
Liberalization
"Let Corporations openly fuck us"
I fear another Reagan driving the economy further into the shitter, and Paulianians openly welcome it.
 
So they did this already some years ago. You know what? We got fucked and still getting fucked. Watch "capitalism - a love story". I think the changes are described pretty well.
 
ebola? said:
Why would most economic problems to date be caused by "progressive" interventions into the economy by the state? Why would a system of 'self-regulating' markets necessarily deliver near-optimum (or even favorable) results?

ebola
Click to expand...

Because unlike the government self regulating markets bring 0 cost and are relatively efficient. Some regulation is necessary.
 
Droppersneck said:
Because unlike the government self regulating markets bring 0 cost and are relatively efficient. Some regulation is necessary.
Click to expand...

So efficient that workers get fired and loans get lower everywhere so that the markets make more money.
 
ron paul has some good ideas, but others are complete pipe dreams. I was an econ major for a few years in college and reverting to the gold standard makes no fucking sense.
 
What makes rich people to devils? Isn't it their greed? How would a world look like without greed and hate? I would even say every system would work if we the people wouldn't be greedy, hateful and jealous.
 
Droppersneck said:
Because unlike the government self regulating markets bring 0 cost and are relatively efficient. Some regulation is necessary.
Click to expand...
the market isn't concerned with human life. it's as mechanic as maths, and the number of preventable deaths/illnesses is not a variable in its equation.
...socialism interfering with the free market
...completely deregulate all business
Click to expand...
obama's continued deregulation (obama a socialist... hahaha, give me one example) is going to lead to another catastrophic financial failure.

if i'm going to rebuttle the anti-socialist fluff, i'd need something more specific than "it interferes with the free market." of course it does, that's the point 8)
 
I've been re-reading Zizek and there is a passage apt for the OP and Ron Paul in general:
Sie wissen das nicht, aber sie tun es "They do not know it, but they are doing it."
 
Original Poster said:
We have a goddamn socialist as our president with a healthcare bill fucking up the healthcare system and economic policies thats downright socialism interfering with the free market.
Click to expand...

Sigh...I should give up on trying to explain to the world what socialism is. But I have personality flaws, so... :P

Socialism: as system of economics where production and distribution are organized collaboratively.
Few economic interventions by the state operate within such a framework. Indeed, the state's 'socialist' policies aim specifically to stabilize capitalist economies.

finalrest said:
It still comes down to the quality of leadership and the character of those who call the shots and are employed in these institutions.
Click to expand...

While 'good leadership' is to be desired (arguing against it would be like adopting an 'anti-competence stance' or something :P), even potentially good leaders face institutional constraints which force debilitating concessions to power-elites, the latter playing a role in structuring such institutions. What is more, this prevailing framework of institutions comes to shape these leaders' dispositions, actions, and identities, corruptingly constructing 'good leadership' as a mere facade, opening the door to demagoguery.

droppers said:
Because unlike the government self regulating markets bring 0 cost and are relatively efficient.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, exactly, what you mean by "bring 0 cost". I find it useful to approach political economy in terms of inquiry into how society distributes power in organizing how we labor interdependently, and then how society allocates the spoils of this labor. From this perspective, the question is, how we can most efficiently and justly organize social laboring in varying, interconnected domains?

Thus, we incur potential 'costs' when organizing production and distribution unjustly and/or inefficiently. How can we assume a priori that self-regulating markets achieve maximal efficiency and justice in all domains? To claim that markets 'cost nothing' implies this assumption. But markets themselves fail to produce conceptions of justice desirable ends, implying that we can't assume them to perform optimally.

One might argue that producers and consumers decide such within markets, but to do so ignores how institutions and markets shape the behavior and even desire of actors within them.

ebola
 
qwe said:
(obama a socialist... hahaha, give me one example) is going to lead to another catastrophic financial failure.
Click to expand...

Bank bailouts/stimulus bill, his push for socialized medicine/single payer healthcare system, his desire to redistribute wealth...

The Democratic Party(esp the Progressive Caucus) is full of socialists, whether they know it(or admit it) or not.
 
Vlatrone said:
Bank bailouts/stimulus bill, his push for socialized medicine/single payer healthcare system, his desire to redistribute wealth...

The Democratic Party(esp the Progressive Caucus) is full of socialists, whether they know it(or admit it) or not.
Click to expand...

You have no earthly idea what you are babbling about.
In it's most basic sense (without abstractions) workers own the factories. They own the means of their own production and value, instead of them being exploited.
Again. You don't know of what you speak. At all. In any sense. Whatsoever.
 
Shrooms00087 said:
You have no earthly idea what you are babbling about.
In it's most basic sense (without abstractions) workers own the factories. They own the means of their own production and value, instead of them being exploited.
Again. You don't know of what you speak. At all. In any sense. Whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Social democracy is socialism, and Obama is clearly pushing social democracy.
 
You're arrogantly ignorant. Please, for the love of God, pick up a book, and learn. In no sense are workers owning the factories, in no sense is Obama (or anybody else) pushing for a non-capitalist society. Go read.
 
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