• Neuroscience & Pharmacology Discussion Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Recent Journal Articles Chemistry Mega-Thread
    FREE Chemistry Databases! Self-Education Guide

  • N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | someguyontheinternet

Any Solution for MDMA Depression?

In regards to ECT, I was fed the typical US medical "consensus" in medical school. I have not only seen the procedure carried out, I have provided anesthetsia /life-support for 6 procedures. The patients who were treated were all female, with a long history of severe psychiatric disorders. These women were truly sick; suffering from the worst cases of major depression I have seen. This type of depression is not your" run of the mill" housewife/moody teenagers; these individuals are bed ridden, crippled and effectively zero-function patients.

Most had some related psychosis, some more than others. One woman, was lucid prior to the procedure, exhibiting no psychosis, but was suffering from 'organic' major depression. While very lucid, apparently rather intelligent (and surprisingly attractive,; she was in her mid 30s, but looked younger), she was littered with the scars of the numerous attempts to end her life (most disturbingly, a scar on the throat; which I found out later was a technically 'successful ' suicide - she was revived from massive hypovolemic shock). She had previously undergone 4 ECT treatments with some transient effect, but willingly and knowingly requested and consented to the procedure. I have no idea what ended up happening to her, but she recovered quickly after treatment, seemingly with little amnesia/cog-deficit.

Other cases were more clear-cut, one female, in complete and total catatonia, underwent the procedure, and after-recovery, was responsive and effectively broken from the catatonic state. How long did this last; I don't know.

The procedure should be a last resort, but may or may not have therapeutic validity. I am honestly unsure, aside from my experience in its ability to break catatonic states, of its value.

A much more disturbing, dangerous, and damaging procedure (having observed the horrors) is rapid opioid detoxification under general anesthesia. This procedure should be banned, and the profiting advocates of this procedure should be prosecuted in a criminal court of law. They know that the procedure is harmful and dangerous, but proceed nonetheless given the high profit margin on these procedures.

To the question, please elaborate on the symptoms and other factors surrounding said MDMA induced depression, and the circumstances of the night in question.
 
The night in question: Halloween. Went to go see STS9 with my buddies and a girl I know. Got like .6 Molly for me and this girl--we were sharing from the same bag. Because I'm a dumbass, I ended up taking the majority of it. This molly was never tested. It felt like an MDMA rush. Total body euphoria. I was grinding my teeth quite a bit. The concert went by really fast (it was cool and outside--I didn't drink a ton of water but felt fine) and was of course, awesome. It was the hardest I ever rolled. We then went back to my place and I probably had .2 left. Me and the girl split it and then had sex in my hot room for like two hours. At this point I had lost the euphoria and felt mostly speedy/coming down. I went to a friends house and smoked a cig; I was feeling really speedy but displayed no signs of imminent doom; no seizures, vomit, and I remember most the night. I then went back to my place with the girl and drank a tiny bit of Nyquil to go to bed. Passed out pretty instantly. The next morning the girl told me I was thrashing around a bit in bed. I thought nothing of it. Felt a nice afterglow the next day.

But two days later I was depersonalized, had headaches, bad short term memory, depressed and had a huge anxiety attack where I wanted to slit my wrists it was so bad. 6 months later I'm left with a bad depression and a lack of love for life. Before this happened I was a real go-getter. Now I just dont give a shit and nothing gets me really excited or happy. I feel bleh all the time. Life has lost its spark basically. I can still function and most people wouldnt be able to tell whats going on. But my friends have picked up on the change b/c I'm quiter and not as fun-loving.

I'm pretty sure Halloween blasted my brain. It's not about what I'm doing now. It's about what happened then. The question now is will my blasted brain ever recover? I'm not sure and I'm losing hope...

Sorry for th novel
 
catinthehat4 Brain damage is instant as is all damage to organs. You say you felt fine for two days after and then started getting depressed? If the drugs you took had done damage you would of felt it that moment/ the very next day. The fact that you didn't is proof that whatever you are suffering from is more likely to be mentally induced rather then some sort of physical damage to brain tissue.
 
^ I must say, I believe this to an extent. I don't know about you, but after my last roll I felt FUCKED. I never had an afterglow, I just felt anxious, paranoid, depressed and all sorts of messed up.

I think sat got a point. Also, you mentioned the ssris worked for you before? That again shows you have a much less prominent display of damage, and your state is most likely transient. Because if you really "destroyed" most of your 5 HT network, how could an SSRI act upon it?
 
its all in your head..

You realize that by THINKING mdma fucked something in your mind permanently, your mental state can play a huge role in depression? I highly doubt after 7 months if you haven't recovered, something else is wrong. Maybe poor diet of non-nutritious fast food, no exercise? Try to get regular exercise 3-4 times a week. Get a membership at a gym and eat highly nutritious home cooked meals. Most importantly DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT. The way you are obsessing that your depression is due to drug use could easily blow everything out of proportion and make something out of nothing basically. The more you stress, the worse it will be. Tell yourself that... its the God's honest truth. Good luck.

Also, this thread belongs in TDS forum I think
 
Saturated: MDMA stays in your system for 24-48 hours. I'm pretty sure what I was feeling the next day was not merely an afteglow...I may have still been rolling. I didn't feel normal that day. Just nothing out of the ordinary for consuming hard drugs the night before.

Severely: Thanks for the encouragement. I'm sure some of it is psychosomatic. But I viscerally feel different. It's impossible to explain unless you've been through it. And also, I was posting in the ADD with the hope that somebody would be able to help me due to the elevated level of knowledge in this forum.
 
I read alot of threads about mdma depression I just would like to state for the record I suffer from Bipolar disorder with manic swings and have used ecstasy heavily since the age of 17 but with most of the use between 18 and 21.

Ecstasy depression is not as serious (at least in my experience) as some make it out to be. Like another poster said getting your self all worked up about it will only make it worse. Ecstasy use has long lasting effects so if your expecting to feel normal even the week after use you won't. There is no "solution" other than simply not taking the drug period.

If you absolutely can't live with yourself the day after I've had great results with marijuana and benzos or opiates. If your not the drug type then green teas will help cleanse your body of the chemicals. Supplementing also seems to be a popular option but I would be wary of further altering brain chemistry.

Just to recap: Don't take X if you don't want to deal with the aftereffects. If you want to ease your pain marijuana will help numb it as and benzos pretty much killed any 8up feeling that I had. For an extra kick of euphoria choose an opiate with marijuana instead of the benzo (benzo opiate combo isn't safe).
 
Yes it stays in your bloodstream for 48 hours but it would not be released into your synapses for that length of time unless you took a piperazine which can because it contains pyrazine. And if you did take a pipe you would be having massive panic attacks and paranoia not a nice 'afterglow'. Nicotine stays in your blood for 8 hours after smoking as does sugar, but you don't 'feel' it for the full 8 hours, it is merely in the bloodstream.
 
saturatedlies -

The delayed onset of psychosis from MDMA use is much more common than you might think. While some people experience extreme reactions while under the influence of the drug, many others will take days to manifest symptoms.

Some heavy MDMA users take weeks after abstinence to realize the full extent of the change.

SSRI users, even after tapering off, sometimes experience a gradual worsening of symptoms over the course of months.

In my case, I was completely fine for THREE days after my last dose of MDMA. I felt no comedown, either. I enjoyed a couple beers, smoked some bud, and took some benedryl the last two nights. But then...
I was literally sitting in my chair feeling fine one minute, then clutching my chest due to tachycardia the next. What ensued was two hours of hell that should have killed me. For nearly seven months I have continued on the path that began that night. There is absolutely nothing you can say to make this not true.

This delay could be explained by the interaction of two variables - it takes 1-2 days for MDMA to turn into metabolites, it takes 3-5 days for the metabolites to leave the system. Also...
It takes a few days to really fill the intestinal tract after rolling, so this delay can be explained in terms of diet. Once the intestines start moving again, serotonin activity in the brain increases dramatically. If there is a deficit in the brain's ability to process serotonin, digestion will often reveal it.

Both CatintheHat, myself, and many others will describe an undeniable change in direct relation to MDMA use. Even if the sequence of events is understood perfectly by the OP, there will always be readers that immediately begin pointing the finger at other variables.

This makes little sense. We both know that we took high quality MDMA. We also both remember feeling a sudden change. There is no doubt about the cause, not even a fragment of a doubt. Got it?

Whether or not you want to label it 'brain damage' doesn't matter at all.
The mountain of animal research that exists shows that MDMA causes alterations in the 5-HT network. Sometimes these changes are vast, and can be described as 'axotomy'. It literally shears off the fiber like axonal extensions of the network, especially in the farthest regions from the brainstem.

If the connection between your intestines and your higher thinking centers were suddenly cut off, how do you think it would feel?

How would you feel about other people saying 'its just in your head' when you have NO doubt?

No offense, severely etarded.

Honestly, your approach is much more appropriate and contains some truth.

This is certainly NOT just something we create, though. This is a profound type of nerve damage that wreaks havoc upon the endocrine system and blood vessels in the brain for a LONG time. It is MDMA's ability to do this on a much smaller scale that makes rolling possible...

However, it may be possible that once the damage is done, thought patterns can influence re-innervation patterns. Forcing yourself to function seems to be beneficial, but only in modest ways. During the first few months, it is far from controllable. It seems that the brain must keep up its massive release of cortisol for recovery to happen in the first place!

Healthy diet and daily exercise DO help. I know.
But they will NOT stop the inevitable 'head-pressure', anxiety, and re-wiring that I know is happening within me.
 
I was trying to make cat feel better! But yeah, I think your bang on. Are these brain zaps/tingles weird pressures you get months after abuse a sign of recovery/repair/rewiring? I read some of your other posts and you said it was something to do with blood distribution? I'm 6 months in of recovery btw
 
Lots Of Dark Chocolate (60% Cocoa Minimum)

Tuna
Turkey
Sunlight

these all help.


Interestingly i read somewhere that when you take mdma that your brains receptors or something Depletes and so the bottom line is that you have a complete ReWire.

Strangely enough ive felt More down after some rolls than others on the same doseage and the same time apart and the same 1g bag i was on!

So maybe the "Rewire" is like a random wheel of fate, That could land on different severitys of after effects?
 
Yeah, saturated. That weird head pressure is the redistribution of blood flow, and likely, a reinervation of receptors/axons. So yep, it's a sign of recovery.
 
Strange, all three of us are online right now, it must be a late night thing.

Sat - I think brain zaps are mis-communication and/or malfunctioning SERT's or receptors. If you experience them, you'll know what I mean. Why, have you been getting them lately?

And no, don't follow that dark chocolate advise cat. The last thing you need right now is more serotonin. The less is better right now, your brains adapting to whatever state it's in, if it's low in serotonin for a time being, it compensates. By either up-regulating 5 HT receptors, or sprouting new axons.

I'm willing to bet if there existed a drug that depletes your brains 5 HT levels, even though you'd feel horribly depressed for the time being, your brain would massively compensate, and I bet there'd be axons sporting everywhere to pick up what little serotonin is floating around.

Cat, have you had any brain zaps? I've heard from a few people, that they consider it "the brain healing itself".
 
There is no way anyone can know with certainty what caused your problems, just because you feel, even very strongly so, that it was MDMA, that doesn't mean its necessarily so. There are obviously many other variables, even if MDMA played a role. Otherwise every person that took MDMA would have serious issues like you are reporting. This is obviously untrue.

No psychological/neurological disorder has any one specific cause (aside from acute injury, obviously), there are loads of variables, both genetic & environmental, that lead to such things. None of this is to denigrate your symptoms at all, as all disorders of this nature are very difficult to deal with regardless of their origin.

One quote i've found pretty apt on this and other similar subjects is from one of the early psychedelic researchers in the 50s & 60s:
"...The hallucinogenic experience is so striking that many subsequent disturbances may be attributed to it without further justification. The highly suggestible or hysterical individual would tend to focus on his LSD experience to explain subsequent illness. Patients have complained to Abramson that their LSD exposure produced migraine headaches and attacks of influenza up to a year later. One Chinese girl became paraplegic and ascribed that catastrophe to LSD...."
Click to expand...

And lastly, see a doctor, psychiatrist, or psychologist, or even better all three. Since you don't have a specific diagnosis or scanning imagery of the physical damage (if there is any) no one in ADD is really going to be able to help you out all that much. Obviously proper diet, vitamin supplements, & regular exercise are all good treatments for any type of depression, and i'd certainly recommend them to you, as well as anyone else, depressed or not. And you should also be wary of any medical advice dispensed via an internet forum, whether its from one of the more well known & extremely knowledgeable folks around here or one of the many with degrees from the university of wikipedia. Diagnosis is a difficult thing, especially at a distance.
 
What's with all this bs about anti-depressants? It's completely subjective. Nobody ever says "anti-depressants changed my life." Never happens, because it's placebo. It's always... "it kind Of worked" "It worked a little bit" etc. It has about the same success rate as a tasty orange. Anti-depressants never solved anybody's problems and it never will.

Secondly, MDMA didn't cause your depression. MDMA doesn't cause permanent sadness any more than it can cause permanent happiness. Neither of which ever happen. They're both illusions.

You need to realize that depression is an illusion created by the ego. Once you become aware of that, free of ego, depression just dissolves itself, and you realize how trivial it is. In order to become aware of the ego. For that I recommend reading a few books:
The Power of Now (or) A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle
Total Freedom by Krishnamurti

Read Eckhart Tolle's bio if you're not sure whether to buy his book or not. You can also pirate it. I doubt he would care.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top