The Insatiable Thirst for Knowledge

[TheAppleCore]

I'm not content with accepting the fact that I can't know with certainty, the most crucial aspects of reality -- and hence, I'm never content.

The only parts of reality that I seem to hold in some degree of familiarity, also seem incredibly superficial. Physics. Stuff. Matter, and energy. Perceptions, emotions.

They're all just little disconnected bits and pieces. I want unification. What describes everything? Every one of these little tidbits branches from what initial point?

Is there any hope at all for an end to this quest? If not, how can I learn to accept that these things are simply out of reach?





This is partly what keeps me coming back to drugs like LSD and DMT. My experiences with these substances represent some of the only times that I've felt absolute philosophical certainty. It's much the same when I'm listening to music. Somehow, the abstract and entirely "inward" nature of the experience allows me to escape the need to search the "real world" for truth -- it's almost like I create the truth itself!

 

[tommy34]

I am the same. The quest will never be complete but that is no reason to stop continuing the quest. Knowledge is power.

 

[Vader]

The epistemic paradox, eh? When you first start getting into philosophy, you're looking for knowledge, and instead you end up realising how little you really know, how little you can ever know. For me, letting go of the desire for pure knowledge was entirely necessary, I'd become so depressed. You just have to accept that all we have are imperfect models, models that are useful in some instances, and not so useful in other instances. Why is knowledge so valuable to you? Really, I think that it's something of a wild goose chase. Ignorance must be bliss, otherwise we are doomed to misery.

 

[malakaix]

You are correct, it is insatiable.. the mind will never be satisfied with an explanation, this is the paradox.

Once you cease pursuing truth as something that can be explained, and rather as something that is felt, and exists within you and all around.. the simplest of moments reflect the perfection in which all creation lays, with the paradoxical collapse of duality, one realizes one's own self-realization and the infinite liberation that follows.

I can resonate with your feeling of music reflecting absoluteness, infact some music can sound so harmonically perfect with endless emotional depth that i find myself in a transcendent state of awareness.

 

[ziggo]

I think I might have found the truth to learning the truth is that you must be happier every moment without lying to yourself in order to handle it.

I believe I know most of the real truth to this life and how to spiritually evolve the most I can it's just really hard to explain to people sometimes. My motivation in life is to help friends gain as much as I have spiritually without forcing it on them at all.

It's like Ignorance is bliss in this time, but knowledge will let you become your higher power. And in this higher powered state of consciousness you will come to realize that the blissful ignorance of that previous state was merely for example you spilling milk, and now the most bliss you can get you couldn't even imagine before as possible.

Keep gaining knowledge if it will show you the truth I have learned you will be as happy as me eventually.

 

[panic in paradise]

taking a bath - one absorbs 4-5 cups of water with in 5-8 minutes - w/o even trying.


seems to me, that anything becomes apparent and realized when nothing is there, and you realize this isnt true over-all

 

[Dedbeet]

I'm not content with accepting the fact that I can't know with certainty, the most crucial aspects of reality -- and hence, I'm never content.

If the above is *really* clear, you've accepted the fact that you can't ever know with certainty.

Such acceptance, is contentment -- one is then free to explore, minus the need to know with certainty and the resulting discontent.

 

[SpinOutOfControl]

Where does any of this stuff get you? No there is no end to it until you realize you just cant figure it out. Its fun to do exploring for a while but it doesn't lead anywhere. I bet your are close to the same age as I am. I was obsessed with trying to find the missing link or puzzle piece that ties all of these interesting theories and ideas together. That link was mainly LSD and other psychedelics for a while. It brought all of these thoughts together in the forefront of my mind and I needed to know how it ALL worked as ONE. It was stimulating, fun, and trippy but it was an obsession and I realized that the people who are studying quantum mechanics or the far reaches of our universe can't explain things much better than what you can read about on the internet. Looking at things in smaller and smaller terms is no longer very useful and constructive.

I think the universe has a very strong will to stay undiscovered. Everything seems to be paradoxical. As soon as you feel you might have figured things out, something new is always just around the corner to change your mind if you allow it.

My life is more and more becoming focused on trying to gain skills and experience in order to make the strides to where I see myself down the road. I want to constantly be moving forward and looking for the next step and way to get ahead. I finally have realized what makes me truly happy and that I should just do it.

I want to make things work, not try to figure out how they work. Taking everything in stride.

 

[Jabberwocky]

i have come to believe that we can't know, with certainty, anything about reality, if reality is fundamentally mathematical. by 'fundamentally mathematical' here i simply mean describable by a formal system rather than necessarily described by the maths we use now.

modern physicists are forced to treat mathematical objects as real, but these objects can exist in multiplicitous ways without making any difference to the physics. i don't think the technical explanation will be appreciated here, but its no longer possible for me to believe in a fundamental (in a grand unified theory way) reality. so i am content to accept that we cannot know about the most crucial aspects of reality, because they're not really real.

i think this probably makes me sound like a total loon but i've studied a lot to get to this position and its the only coherent one I can come up with. the nice aspect of it, IMO, is that doing away with 'fundamental reality' places all other types of perceived reality on an equal footing. any investigation of reality at any level, as long as its carefully conducted, becomes valid and useful.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Where does any of this stuff get you?

.... Looking at things in smaller and smaller terms is no longer very useful and constructive.

it depends on the mode of investigation. for myself, hopefully a really exciting career.

i agree with most of the sentiments of your post, as should hopefully be clear from mine. however, do you honestly think that the facts of wave/particle duality, entanglement, the evidence for a big bang, haven't been useful? they have stripped away our arrogance, shown our instincts about reality cannot be trusted and that to learn we must be open to ideas which on the surface are insane. they have also given a physical basis to one of the themes of this thread, the unity of everything.

the study of these things is doubtlessly useful and constructive on a practical level. on a personal level, whether these investigations can be of benefit depends on the individuals personality and their commitment to discovery.

 

[SpinOutOfControl]

Not for me right now. I love that people like you are dedicating your lives to these kinds of advancements. At this moment they can not provide me with anything useful in my life. I do agree that these discoveries may lead to big leaps quite literally down the road.

 

[Dedbeet]

Not for me right now. I love that people like you are dedicating your lives to these kinds of advancements. At this moment they can not provide me with anything useful in my life. I do agree that these discoveries may lead to big leaps quite literally down the road.

Mankind has been advancing since the stone age, and is still busy scratching his neighbor's back and pounding him over the head with a rock.

But his neighbor wants him to advance, recognizes him as a "becoming self", and he likes to be noticed and thought about.

So his advancement is the attempted continuation of self, at any price, and at any expense.

'Til it's clear that continuation never actually occurred, nor was a self-position ever established.

It's pretty ordinary, even mundane... there's nothing in it at all to attract a self. The search for 'awakening' belongs in "This century's biggest joke book"... or alongside the antidepressants one uses to try not to feel too bad about the way things are.

Peace...

 

[SpinOutOfControl]

I realized sitting there thinking about these sort of things does not necessarily get me any where at all besides some nice ideas. There are things I am trying to do with my life and accomplish right now, and blowing my mind apart with all kinds of theories and ideas about reality would be completely counter productive. That was me a year or two ago. I think everyone is entitled to explore this sort of stuff but thats all it is. Everything is already there is front of you. You don't need to find anything. I think FEAR is a big factor with all of this.

 

[High Yogi]

"The only parts of reality that I seem to hold in some degree of familiarity, also seem incredibly superficial. Physics. Stuff. Matter, and energy. Perceptions, emotions.

They're all just little disconnected bits and pieces. I want unification. What describes everything? Every one of these little tidbits branches from what initial point?

Is there any hope at all for an end to this quest? If not, how can I learn to accept that these things are simply out of reach?"


The unification underlying those tidbits and pieces you have described as being "Physics. Stuff. Matter, and energy. Perceptions, emotions." is obviously none other than god almighty; the creator, preserver and transcender of all things in the universe, also known as "krishna," meaning "all attractive." Because the supreme personality of godhead, in his various names and guises, has initially created this entire universe and is the sound of OM the original vibration, it is from HE and SHE in unity(the god all mighty), that all things have branched out of and is also this initial point you speak of.

You ask if there is an end to the quest and i submit to you that there is. The end of the quest if found in the start, which is god himself. Through gods unlimited opulence and mercy, he has created us all so that we may become whichever we wish to be through our own karma. This is established through collecting the vibrations of the acts of which we do. Whichever acts we pursue creates a vibration that stays with us. When we die, this vibration, whatever it may be, will determine the next body we will inhibit. This is stated in the bhagavad-gita.

So then what is the point of it all? One might say that there is no point. Why does a tree have a seed, only for that seed to become a tree, to have another seed? Life just is for the sake of being so. There is no point. Its just a ride, and through gods grace, as his children, he has given us this entire universe for our splendor. But who is the ultimate enjoyer? The ultimate enjoyer of all things to be, is none other than god himself. Through our enjoyment, god enjoys too. But the greatest enjoyment is when we offer our joys to the ultimate enjoyer himself, it is the reciprocated over and over in a never ending cycle of Bhakti. This bhakti vibration, or krishna consciousness, also collects in our karma and at our time of death, it may be what liberates us from having to be born again because we show the universe our main interest is in god, so through this, we will be delivered to god and freed from the ocean of illusion and suffering.

The hope to end the quest lies in god, the cause of all causes. You can learn to accept god, but never accept that he is out of reach. How can god ever be out of reach for anyone? god is everywhere at all times, and even resides with each individual soul in our hearts. If u wish to find god, look first in your heart. You will never go wrong, you will never be lead astray. You will find home. Home is where the heart is, and what lies in the heart is god. So may god be our eternal home, now and forever. Hare krishna!

If you are interested in what i have said, please check out this book: "the science of self realization"- His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

 

[panic in paradise]

kind of like, when there is no one to throw the apple-core to ?

 

[Dedbeet]

I realized sitting there thinking about these sort of things does not necessarily get me any where at all besides some nice ideas.

'Tis true.

It's when one sees that what others talk about never get one any further than one's own talk, that one is finally clear about the mind.

There are things I am trying to do with my life and accomplish right now, and blowing my mind apart with all kinds of theories and ideas about reality would be completely counter productive.

Well, none of this talk will stop you from trying to accomplish and do what you want with your life. "The nondual" to a "self" is an integration of an interesting (but unlikely) philosophy into that self's outlook and world-view.

The "nondual" in the absence of that self looks totally different.

What transcends the mind, ceaselessly re-shapes and remakes it so it's truer to the actuality.

What "dwells in the mind" is merely terrified to stop thinking, because what it thinks about is reality to it.

Peace....

 

[SpinOutOfControl]

No you are right it won't nessecaily stop me from doing anything at all. But when it becomes an obsession and consuming it can be distracting from what is actually important in this world WE live in. When you spend so much time pondering you don't ever set things in motion.

The op is craving this knowledge out of a desire to seek an absolute answer which sums it all up. Why does it have to be that way. Wouldn't that be sort of sad and upsetting anyway. I like to imagine everything has endless possibility to evolve and change. Even science is just a working model WE as people have constructed based on what's been able to be proven. Anywhere down the road we have the ability to decide that any theory is no longer correct if it can be disproved.

The best thing someone can do is stay open minded.

 

[Dedbeet]

No you are right it won't nessecaily stop me from doing anything at all. But when it becomes an obsession and consuming it can be distracting from what is actually important in this world WE live in.

Well, we've never run into each other in person, so in a way we live in different worlds, eh?

My world is based on what I remember of the past, as is yours.

The past becomes very important to us when we need the sense of commonality that exists there -- and the problem with that is, the past is gone, and it doesn't actually exist. To live in the past is to be missing the essential -- which is always "right now", whenever that may be.

Peace...

 

[damenohito]

i believe that humanity's capacity for understanding is fairly limited, therefore i find some comfort in absurdism then try to apply acceptance to the rest.

 

[Dedbeet]

i believe that humanity's capacity for understanding is fairly limited, therefore i find some comfort in absurdism then try to apply acceptance to the rest.

Indeed... it's much more limited than thought wants to believe, because it wants to believe it has an unlimited existence. It'll even claim itself as spanning from birth to death, despite the fact that none of us have died, and probably are nowhere near to "reaching" death yet. How can it span from birth to death, if we aren't there yet?

There's an absurdity in the believed-in time spanning. A self can exist between last week and this week, between birth and death, between aeons of the universe, between yesterday and tomorrow -- whatever time span happens to be selected. What are we doing absolutizing limitation?

All we have that isn't bordered, bounded and stuck is our consciousness, and all the mind does is complain that it's bored. The set of boundary-conditions that would be freedom -- is the mind.