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Are Humans inherently Evil?

citizen cained

citizen cained

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I am sure if we removed things people say are evil or causing world problems (religion, money etc) we will still find a way to hurt and kill each other.

Do you think we are such violent animals by nature or nurture?

Or do you even agree with the topic title? What do we mean by Evil?

Discuss..
 
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big numbers of people are evil but most just do evil things without being evil

humans are trash,just filthy virus that spreads like HIV and bring pain and destruction to everything in range
 
No, humans are not inherently evil.

The evil that dogs the human being is the attempt at protecting and defending "existence in time" (e.g. tradition) of the body -- and by the body, I mean not only one's physical body, but one's country, one's religion, one's belief system, one's reputation, etc.

Leave the body alone, and it takes care of itself moment to moment. It's the mind that wants more than 'moment to moment', always more. It wants it all. It wants to exist from birth to death -- it even wants to exist in a time that hasn't arrived yet, let alone times that are gone! Lunacy.
 
there's no such thing as good or evil [?]

[my permanent belief. so I won't debate it. End of story, LOL]

if by Evil you mean Selfish, there could be a meaty debate there.
But from what I interpret evil to be, it could be any number of negative things [brutal, lustful, sinful - what do you mean evil at all? It just sounds like a generalisation of everything YOU don't like about humanity, including or especially, yourself/family/etc.
 
Good and evil are a dualistic pair, and with such pairs you can never have one without the other (for better or worse). Insist on good, and you will have to put up with evil, and vice-versa. If you don't insist on good, you won't have to deal with evil, and you really won't miss either in the end -- unless you're insisting on them. Either take the roller coaster ride, or walk on foot across the park... it all balances out in the end.
 
^^
@CitizenCained
I trust you are happy with the edit. Now your thread has taken off I hope to see some informative input.
 
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There is only such thing as good and evil if there's "good and evil". There is no such thing as good by itself, or evil by itself. Evil is the shadow of good, and good is the solidity of evil (if you like).

If neither are there, you don't miss them and life literally goes on as always... unless you absolutely must have good. But then evil will not be avoidable.

Seek *anything* and you are instantly stuck with the opposite of what you're seeking, trying to get to the other side where you're not stuck. It's far easier to surrender the search than to attempt to get there from here. Because once you get there, you're merely "here" again.
 
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I think every person's default is a base animal state of pure selfishness, where any harm inflicted upon another sentient being in the name of self-advancement is perfectly fine. Thankfully most people are saved, through their interactions with others and their ability to form bonds with them, from remaining in this base state for their whole lives. This is no reason for despair or misanthropy, though; even the most beautiful stone statue was once a coarse hunk of rock with sharp edges, which became something more by the grace of its interactions with its carver.
 
Dedbeet said:
There is only such thing as good and evil if there's "good and evil". There is no such thing as good by itself, or evil by itself. Evil is the shadow of good, and good is the solidity of evil (if you like).

If neither are there, you don't miss them and life literally goes on as always... unless you absolutely must have good. But then evil will not be avoidable.

Seek *anything* and you are instantly stuck with the opposite of what you're seeking, trying to get to the other side where you're not stuck. It's far easier to surrender the search than to attempt to get there from here. Because once you get there, you're merely "here" again.
Click to expand...

This doesn't make sense to me. You seem to be saying that a prerequisite for the existence of something is its existence. I like the simplicity of the notion, but it doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny.

I also disagree that good and evil are bound together. They are not inverse images of each other. The thing that keeps them together is human imagination. Take The Holocaust; surely an act of incredible cruelty and evil, but what sort of act could the inverse of that?

It is futile to try and define anything by its opposite. Doing so is a logical paradox- "I know that I know nothing"- in one sense that sort of thinking is helpdul, as it breaks down the divided meaning humanity places on things, but duality doesn't accurately reflect the objective world. It only reflects the divided human brain.

OP, humans aren't inherently anyything, whilst also being 'potential everything'. Each individual is made up of complete capacity for every form of action.
 
i believe we have emotions that are inertly corruptible, and inertly reversible in the same sense; ones thoughts and emotions can balance out into a more neutral state.
we perceive what is being taken in by the mind, and then eventually process the thoughts into relative emotions we have established through-out our lives time. after rationalizing and processing what ever we are atm, how ever we do uniquely; eventually we reach if allowed an emotional reaction.

i dont believe we are innocent in every-sense at birth, just more of 'honest beings' or 'pure spirits'; the same as animals.


evil is learned in every-sense, but positive and negative results are always present or learned as well.
 
I just reread the original post, and now I understand.

You're equating savagery with evil. when, in fact, all animals engage in it. "killing" is not "evil". despite what you've been conditioned to believe by a highly domesticated society...
 
animals dont kill for no good reason though.

they are protecting their families, homes and food.
humans will kill for any number of reasons they see fit as an individual, with the intent to satisfy their own wants or beliefs -etc.

or treat animals/anything the way we do for our own benefit of pride.


"that wasnt what you called it, that was an accident"
-Piggy: Lord of the Flies
 
sure animals kill for no good reason. do you know of felines, for example? they killl and often leave the meat there. they just kill little rodents for fun. in any case,i reckon most people when they kill they have a reason...even if no one else hears of it after the fact...

bloodlust is a natural instinct. we just supress it in modern western countries and act apalled at the bestiality around us/within us. when it is simply a part of being human. truly. what's truly horrifying is how alienated we are from our instincts - especially in the Western lands [Western Europe, North America]

this misanthropic idea just seems like an excuse to feel depressed. you don't need an excuse...or if you do, use the weather ;) [its currently damn cold in Canada!]
 
ControlDenied said:
sure animals kill for no good reason. do you know of felines, for example? they killl and often leave the meat there. they just kill little rodents for fun. in any case,i reckon most people when they kill they have a reason...
Click to expand...

yes, i do know the feline... my cat has her head on my elbow atm...

and yes, they do exactly as said; leave them alive just to show off and chase to grab again.

cats apes and humans all have a lot in common, very odd similarities.


i dont believe in evil or innocence...
at least not as we understand it.


we can be shaped into a sculpture, art from a crude cold medium of the elements. this can then be smashed into a pile of rubble by mans-hands, but instead of throwing stones at our brother/sister, there could be a 100 more sculptures made in remembrance of those loved.


to worry and fear evil, is not to continue to live and create freely.
 
to worry and fear evil, is not to continue to live and create freely.
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A wise statement PiP :)

The sort of activity that cats and orca's engage in; playing with a lifeform, hurting it and killing it in play, is certainly not even close to evil. To the orca, the penguin is natural prey, and to survive as a hunter, the orca must learn to hunt. Most play, of almost any lifeform, has a degree of violence, but instead of it being malicious, its usually simply part of the survival instinct. Humans play, but often its mock-ups of social interactions (young kids playing doctors, organising their trucks, playing with a dollhouse, etc.). Humans don't need to know how to kill to survive; but we must (to a degree) need to know how to interact with other humans, so our games tend to be geared at that. Even playing cops and robbers is a symbolic way of learning how to use power.

I don't tend to see evil as a truth- nor is good. They are stark descriptions of something non-existent. They tend to imply that absolutes exist, ignoring the crucial grey areas. Theres no empirical way to measure an action; except to say that it is, indeed, an action. Take Hitler; he was known as a racist meglomaniac- our modern cultures manifestation of Pure Evil- and yet he so loved his dog, Blondi. That shows empathy or compassion within the heart of Hitler. Then he tested his suicide pills on Blondi- the terrible action of a desperate and confused man- and yet was utterly mortified.
 
Depends on your definition of evil I suppose..

I would say that humans are inherently selfish.. as of yet there seems to be only a small minority of us who have begun to realize our selfless nature and even fewer who are capable of sustaining that realization
 
^^

I tend to agree. We are all born selfish due in part to evolutionary biology. Becoming less selfish, and more selfless begins with good parenting and a fairly painless evolution to adulthood (something our society so often seems organised to suppress). Then with age, and maturity, and learning lessons from the life of hard knocks, all social relationships and interaction, and introspection on the kind of person we want to be - we have the potential to become fairly selfless creatures.

That said I believe there is a dark side in all of us, often loosely referred to as the reptilian brain: When anomie, and accidie collide all sorts of horrors can ensue, where one might descend into psychopathy temporarily and commit what 'civilised' society deem to be evil acts, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing, war crimes etc.

At the societal level we can see that the most civilised of societies can descend into war and barbarity.

Does evil exist in some metaphysical, Zoroastrian sense? I do not think so, but would not exclude the possibility.

Are there any inherently evil persons, or acts? I tend to think not though in certain cases the enormity of the crime, and the remorselessness of the criminal certainly can create the illusion of inherent evil.

I think the study of schizophrenia, delusional disorders and other psychiatric research may give us answers to one's propensity to selfishness, idiopathic psychopathy and sociopathic tendencies.
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Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius - Abbot Arnaud Amalric
 
" Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius - Abbot Arnaud Amalric "

well there we go...


i am not afraid in any way shape or form, to say this seems all right, man.

i might have to have that tattooed.




Abbe V/ ASH
 
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