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Can people give me general reading recomendations on chemistry/physics?

H

Harambulus

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Joined
Jul 23, 2009
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624
My background is philosophy of which I did my degree but since finishing I've become more and more fascinated and respectful of the scientific method.

I've studied quite a bit of evolutionary biology but now I have become interested in chemistry and physics.

I am interested in these because I am interested in gaining a new appreciation of the world through these lenses.

Could you guys knowledgeable in such things give me good reading recs. on these areas which would give me the basics. I only remember tiny fragments from school since I paid little to no attention back then like most of us.

Stuff like what makes things hard soft wet dry- i.e what the interplay is of the periodic table in everything, chemical compositions, what those hexagon thingys that make up chemical structures are all about, that kind of stuff.
 
"Fundamentals of organic chemistry" by John McMurry is a good place to start if you want to learn the basics of organic chemistry. Its easy to read and written in a not-so-academic language. Most drugs are organic molecules, so it can give you some insight in what people discuss in this forum.

I cant really comment on basic (high school) chemistry books as the books I read myself were in danish.

However I really recommend reading some articles from wikipedia on chemistry, the periodic table, the elements an so forth. They can be rather extensive, but it can provide a decent introduction to the basics of chemistry.
 
the chemistry doesn't come to life unless you actually do it. I remember the semester when I made my first compound I stood back and looked at the flask with damp yellow crystals and the MP was exactly what it should have been and I stood back and looked at the flask and said to myself LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE CREATED!!! like Tom Hanks in Castaway after he built a fire.

there's no way the books will come close to that.
 
"Fundamentals of organic chemistry"
Click to expand...

^^^One cannot functionally apply organic chemistry without first learning general "high-school" chemistry I and II. Keep in mind the original comment was:

Stuff like what makes things hard soft wet dry- i.e what the interplay is of the periodic table in everything, chemical compositions, what those hexagon thingys that make up chemical structures are all about, that kind of stuff.
Click to expand...


Without a firm grasp of the basics, one will not be able to make sense of "organic chemistry" (such as college level o-chem 1 & 2, advanced topics in o-chem 1 &2 or in some universities o-chem 1-4).

This looks simple, though not comprehensive, but its free:

http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/virtualtextbook.html
 
I'd recommend www.khanacademy.org as it has chemistry, organic chemistry, and physics videos. No login, just click and watch. Depending on how in depth you want to get you could get the recommend textbooks from a library or used book store to couple with the videos. Good luck!
 
negrogesic said:
^^^One cannot functionally apply organic chemistry without first learning general "high-school" chemistry I and II. Keep in mind the original comment was:




Without a firm grasp of the basics, one will not be able to make sense of "organic chemistry" (such as college level o-chem 1 & 2, advanced topics in o-chem 1 &2 or in some universities o-chem 1-4).

This looks simple, though not comprehensive, but its free:

http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/virtualtextbook.html
Click to expand...

Well, I think you misunderstood my post. Sure it does require some basic chemistry before one can comprehend the principles in Mcmurry. But not really THAT much. This is a forum about drugs so I figured he wanted to learn something about organic chemistry as well.
 
what those hexagon thingys that make up chemical structures are all about
Click to expand...

snake.gif


"I was sitting writing on my textbook, but the work did not progress; my thoughts were elsewhere. I turned my chair to the fire and dozed. Again the atoms were gamboling before my eyes. This time the smaller groups kept modestly in the background. My mental eye, rendered more acute by the repeated visions of the kind, could now distinguish larger structures of manifold conformation; long rows sometimes more closely fitted together all twining and twisting in snake-like motion. But look! What was that? One of the snakes had seized hold of its own tail, and the form whirled mockingly before my eyes. As if by a flash of lightning I awoke; and this time also I spent the rest of the night in working out the consequences of the hypothesis"
 
Iodjini_dk said:
Well, I think you misunderstood my post. Sure it does require some basic chemistry before one can comprehend the principles in Mcmurry. But not really THAT much. This is a forum about drugs so I figured he wanted to learn something about organic chemistry as well.
Click to expand...

I very well could have misread and I apologize if I came off as critical. I guess in my mind, a solid understanding of organic chemistry requires a very solid understand of general chemistry.

Obviously, for most people who are doing this for interest without instruction it would take quite a bit of time to get to point where one could understand and apply the principles of o-chem to medicinal chemistry (which I assume is the entire basis of this question).

And in that sense, yes, you are correct, a generally understanding of organic chemistry on a (for lack of a better term) "molecular level" would probably be suited here if the sole purpose is to understand medicinal chemistry. Yet, not all of medicinal chemistry is organic; nitrous oxide is a simple but powerful inorganic anesthetic/psychoactive compound. My guess is that one would need to have at least a functional understanding of the basic principles of general chem, such as bonding-structure (i.e. valence/orbitals/carbon hybridization/energy/polarity/geometry/resonance.....the list goes on and on).

My point is, it is dangerous to "partially" learn something, skipping over what may seem "irrelevant". This may lead someone to believe that they understand "enough", which can be a problem when dealing with any form of chemistry in which an incomplete understanding, or a proper understanding misapplied, can result in injury or death. I did not abide by this rule; one of my interests from 8-18 was energetic chemistry, specifically that of high explosives. Did I read basic chemistry books and understand them; yes, for the most part. Did I properly apply what I learned; sort of. There is no textbook entitled "An Adolescents Guide to Homemade High Explosive Synthesis (edition 1, Garage Laboratory)" Fortunately I never got seriously injured. I'm actually quite glad I was playing with compounds that were of high lethality; if I had been interested in drugs.........well.....there are fates far worse than death......

There are often questions on here that I sometimes feel like I have the knowledge to answer, but decide against doing so, because my knowledge of advanced medicinal chemistry is not exceptional. Sure, I taught two semesters of o-chem II (lecture and lab) at a local state university, but this is still very basic, and even with a very heavy curve students seemed to be struggling to pass (in one semester, the student with the highest non-curved percentage score was something like a 62%). I believe it was likely a combination of my amateurish teaching abilities and some rather slow students.

I am not saying that one cannot approach these subjects as an autodidact, much of what I "know" came to me first as an autodidact and was later clarified, corrected or re-affirmed in academia.

Again, I am not a great teacher, and I honestly don't know the best way to approach the following question:

what those hexagon thingys that make up chemical structures are all about
Click to expand...
 
negrogesic said:
I very well could have misread and I apologize if I came off as critical. I guess in my mind, a solid understanding of organic chemistry requires a very solid understand of general chemistry.

Obviously, for most people who are doing this for interest without instruction it would take quite a bit of time to get to point where one could understand and apply the principles of o-chem to medicinal chemistry (which I assume is the entire basis of this question).

And in that sense, yes, you are correct, a generally understanding of organic chemistry on a (for lack of a better term) "molecular level" would probably be suited here if the sole purpose is to understand medicinal chemistry. Yet, not all of medicinal chemistry is organic; nitrous oxide is a simple but powerful inorganic anesthetic/psychoactive compound. My guess is that one would need to have at least a functional understanding of the basic principles of general chem, such as bonding-structure (i.e. valence/orbitals/carbon hybridization/energy/polarity/geometry/resonance.....the list goes on and on).

My point is, it is dangerous to "partially" learn something, skipping over what may seem "irrelevant". This may lead someone to believe that they understand "enough", which can be a problem when dealing with any form of chemistry in which an incomplete understanding, or a proper understanding misapplied, can result in injury or death. I did not abide by this rule; one of my interests from 8-18 was energetic chemistry, specifically that of high explosives. Did I read basic chemistry books and understand them; yes, for the most part. Did I properly apply what I learned; sort of. There is no textbook entitled "An Adolescents Guide to Homemade High Explosive Synthesis (edition 1, Garage Laboratory)" Fortunately I never got seriously injured. I'm actually quite glad I was playing with compounds that were of high lethality; if I had been interested in drugs.........well.....there are fates far worse than death......

There are often questions on here that I sometimes feel like I have the knowledge to answer, but decide against doing so, because my knowledge of advanced medicinal chemistry is not exceptional. Sure, I taught two semesters of o-chem II (lecture and lab) at a local state university, but this is still very basic, and even with a very heavy curve students seemed to be struggling to pass (in one semester, the student with the highest non-curved percentage score was something like a 62%). I believe it was likely a combination of my amateurish teaching abilities and some rather slow students.

I am not saying that one cannot approach these subjects as an autodidact, much of what I "know" came to me first as an autodidact and was later clarified, corrected or re-affirmed in academia.

Again, I am not a great teacher, and I honestly don't know the best way to approach the following question:
Click to expand...

One of the best posts I've read in a long long time.
 
negrogesic said:
I very well could have misread and I apologize if I came off as critical. I guess in my mind, a solid understanding of organic chemistry requires a very solid understand of general chemistry.

Obviously, for most people who are doing this for interest without instruction it would take quite a bit of time to get to point where one could understand and apply the principles of o-chem to medicinal chemistry (which I assume is the entire basis of this question).

And in that sense, yes, you are correct, a generally understanding of organic chemistry on a (for lack of a better term) "molecular level" would probably be suited here if the sole purpose is to understand medicinal chemistry. Yet, not all of medicinal chemistry is organic; nitrous oxide is a simple but powerful inorganic anesthetic/psychoactive compound. My guess is that one would need to have at least a functional understanding of the basic principles of general chem, such as bonding-structure (i.e. valence/orbitals/carbon hybridization/energy/polarity/geometry/resonance.....the list goes on and on).

My point is, it is dangerous to "partially" learn something, skipping over what may seem "irrelevant". This may lead someone to believe that they understand "enough", which can be a problem when dealing with any form of chemistry in which an incomplete understanding, or a proper understanding misapplied, can result in injury or death. I did not abide by this rule; one of my interests from 8-18 was energetic chemistry, specifically that of high explosives. Did I read basic chemistry books and understand them; yes, for the most part. Did I properly apply what I learned; sort of. There is no textbook entitled "An Adolescents Guide to Homemade High Explosive Synthesis (edition 1, Garage Laboratory)" Fortunately I never got seriously injured. I'm actually quite glad I was playing with compounds that were of high lethality; if I had been interested in drugs.........well.....there are fates far worse than death......

There are often questions on here that I sometimes feel like I have the knowledge to answer, but decide against doing so, because my knowledge of advanced medicinal chemistry is not exceptional. Sure, I taught two semesters of o-chem II (lecture and lab) at a local state university, but this is still very basic, and even with a very heavy curve students seemed to be struggling to pass (in one semester, the student with the highest non-curved percentage score was something like a 62%). I believe it was likely a combination of my amateurish teaching abilities and some rather slow students.

I am not saying that one cannot approach these subjects as an autodidact, much of what I "know" came to me first as an autodidact and was later clarified, corrected or re-affirmed in academia.

Again, I am not a great teacher, and I honestly don't know the best way to approach the following question:
Click to expand...

.
 
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Hehe, I did the same thing with the chlorate, except in my parents garage after the chlorine got too much for my bedroom!
 
Young and Freedman's University Physics is a good all around general physics book. It uses calculus but sparingly for most of the book. So the math shouldn't be a big hurdle.

For some more application to chemistry though a bit more advanced:

Schroeder's - Introduction to Thermal Physics

*Griffiths - Introduction to Electricity and Magnetism
*Griffiths - Introduction to Quantum Mechanics
These two are advanced undergrad level books. But with time and study, they develop a lot of the underlying physics behind the chemistry.

Physical Chemistry: A Molecular Approach by Donald A. McQuarrie and John D. Simon (another terse one but full of information)

I have high school level knowledge of actual coursework in chemistry (college level if you consider passing the AP exam worth anything) but my studies in physics are what really made the chemistry make sense at a fundamental level [I'm a graduate student in physics]

*Graduate quantum mechanics explaining the Pauli Exclusion principle was an astounding class.

Aside from the first book I posted, the rest are all not exactly "readable" but they are very important none the less. To really understand the physics that explains a lot fo the "whys?" in chemistry will take a lot of time and study but it is by no means an impossible feat for someone to self study
 
(Cue booming voice...)

Centuries before Christ there were two Greeks named ummm... Demoititis or something and his teacher who's name I don't remember. They theorized that all matter was made up of tiny indivisible particles which they called Atoms; Greek for uncuttable.
...
In the end they were wrong though, and Einstein split the atom and unleashed a weapon of hell on the men of Earth.
...
Now Greece is bankrupt.

The end!
 
I would suggest starting out with a basic college level physics book and a college level Intro Chemistry book (not Orgo)

Work your way through those, then try picking up an orgo book.

You can jump right into orgo but there's a lot of stuff you'll be not quite understanding without the basis in basic chemistry.

The physics in a standard college level intro physics book won't be that pertinent to the chemistry but will help develop math and problem solving skills necessary for more advanced chemistry problems. Generally the last few sections fo the physics book will be devoted to "modern physics" which will be more pertinent to chemistry.
 
My all time favorite in the realm of physics is; The Quantum World Quantum Physics for Everyone by Kenneth W. Ford

Can't really help in the realm of chemistry since most of that knowledge was obtained in the form of textbooks rather than the more readable type books. Its worth looking into classes at your local college if you are deeply interested in chemistry.

Best Wishes, and enjoy your reading :)
 
I'd personally start with stuffmonger's thread on turning MDPV into a sex-crazed-superdrug of no known origin or chemistry (but despite this, definitely not an analogue); all developed in the belize jungle, where there are lots of dogs with their backs to the wall.

After much early belief in the science, and a complete lack of belief in the author, I have since nearly completely reversed my opinion. It's a cracking read. Actually, I think the science in it is a gateway to a LOAD of new (or old) shit, depending on how you view secrecy I suppose.

It's a cracking first read and introduction to organic chemistry, with a bit of international politics thrown in...

What better place to start? You won't find it in ADD. It was there originally, and then moved to EADD where, you're gonna love this, MDPV has been illegal for ages!!

;)

Just please please, don't try and follow the published synth. Many injuries past, present, and future..... (and nobody else has seemed to achieve the same results as stuffmonger, or I suppose those that have, are currently with their animals 24/7).

Enjoy.
 
I wouldn't recommend anyone skipping over gen chem to get to ochem. Yeah, there is a lot of knowledge which isn't necessary to get a basic understanding of o chem, but a lot of the concepts will be meaningless or lacking in understanding. The more I look into advanced organic, the more I realized that even the large amount of time I put into chemistry, I still missed more than I should have if I expect to become proficient in it at the academic level (not that i'm not correcting this). If science is an interest, the more you know of the basics, the easier it will be to bring ideas together and form a solid working relationship with the subject. Putting some effort in college level algebra, calculus 1 and 2, and physics imo is also something that shouldn't be over looked if chemistry is something you'd like to really understand.
 
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