dntcheckthtbxdoc
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2010
- Messages
- 193
anxious to see what you found out with this current project you got goin andyb.....Im hopin this works out...
Opioids Experiment Thead - New Formulation Oxycodone Extraction
- Thread starter jaystyle
- Start date
Had a bit of a mishap while it was drying. I did IV the tiny bit of residue that was left, though. I can't say for sure whether it worked or not. I thought I felt something, but it was slight enough that I can't rule out placebo. To me the crystals that had formed looked like it was mostly salt (from the NaOH and HCl reacting), but there could have been oxy in there as well. And I've never seen oxycodone HCl so I have no idea what it looks like anyway.
I'll probably run more tests soon.
Edit:
Good news. I managed to recover most of the stuff that was spilled, and there was certainly oxy content there! It wasn't anywhere near the 80mg that I put in but it was something. My estimate would be about 20mg. I'm going to try this extraction again but let it soak longer to hopefully dissolve a better portion of the oxycodone. I think the method is viable, and it's pretty simple really. Just need oxycontin, water, HCl, lye, and naphtha (obtained as coleman camping fuel stuff, zippo lighter fluid, or at the hardware store as VM&P naphtha). A separatory funnel is a big help as well but it's not required at all. Like I said, If my next extraction turns out well, I'll post the method and go into more detail.
I'll probably run more tests soon.
Edit:
Good news. I managed to recover most of the stuff that was spilled, and there was certainly oxy content there! It wasn't anywhere near the 80mg that I put in but it was something. My estimate would be about 20mg. I'm going to try this extraction again but let it soak longer to hopefully dissolve a better portion of the oxycodone. I think the method is viable, and it's pretty simple really. Just need oxycontin, water, HCl, lye, and naphtha (obtained as coleman camping fuel stuff, zippo lighter fluid, or at the hardware store as VM&P naphtha). A separatory funnel is a big help as well but it's not required at all. Like I said, If my next extraction turns out well, I'll post the method and go into more detail.
Last edited:
justtesting
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2010
- Messages
- 52
Other experiments on OPs
Found the following on the "7" train and scanned it in. Could probably be simplified.
ACRONYM KEY:
VFP = Very Fine Powder
IA = Isopropyl Alcohol (100%)
OAS = Open Air Siphon
CWE = Cold Water Extraction
ml = Milliliter
fl oz = Fluid Ounces
SS = Stainless Steel
IR = Instant Release
UV = UltraViolet
led = Light Emitting Diode
RECOMENDED OR NEEDED EQUIPMENT:
-100% pure orange oil or 100% lemon oil (bit less common, found at specialty stores like “Fruits & Passion” but easily found & sold on internet. Relatively expensive 0.5fl oz for about $19)-
[editor's note: Pure Orange Oil be available much more cheaply, like that price given, but for a pint - look for pure d-limonene, too ]
-100% Isopropyl Alcohol (less common but readily available to many people, cheap 12fl oz for $5 )-
-Separatory Funnel (less common but readily available on internet for $20. Possibility of using funnel or cone shaped container but unknown. SF is highly recommended & needed at this time.
-Pasteur pipette (or long eye dropper) (a cheap & effective way to make a long eye dropper is to buy 3 very common two piece medicine droppers or kid eye droppers. Simply stack taper end of first tube in back end of another tube and replace suction ball on last tube. No tools required, cost about $1 each.)
-High power UV led flashlight (common, available in specialty stores such as Spencers. Also readily available on the internet for about $10-$15. Also very common this time of year for “Halloween”)
-Pedi Paws, battery powered pet nail trimmer (very common, available at retail/drug stores like Walgreens/Target/CVS for $9.99)-
-Ziploc freezer bag (extremely common, any super market $5)-
-(2) small SS Coffee Scoops (very common, available at Target Store/Wal-Mart, in kitchen supplies $2.99ea, made by Chefmate)
-set of SS small measuring cup set (very common, available at *same as above, comes in set of 4 different sizes on one ring, only $1.99
-set of SS small measuring spoons (very common, available at *see above, comes in set of 4 different sizes on one ring, only .99 cents (under a dollar)
-Vibrator Pad or Shaker (less common; $100+ lab equipment but can be easily made from parts, certain toys or old cell phone for under $10 or free using old parts)-
-Heating Pad or Coffee Warmer (very common under $20, available at Target/Wal-Mart/Super markets. Very Hot water could be used instead but could destroy experiment if any got into the solution)-
Step 1:
Take one item, pulverize into very fine powder (this is a key step and time much be taken to ensure that powder consistency is as fine as “talc”, or as close as possible)
Use a “Pedi Paws”. It is much preferred over a Dremel tool, due to the Pedi Paws “catch cap” on the “Pedi Paws”.
Hand filing is NOT recommended, as it does not refine the powder to “talc” consistency.
This catch cap is extremely efficient at retaining as much product as possible. Even when using a Pedi Paws, one should place the entire tool (Pedi Paws) into a “Ziploc freezer bag” and work within this bag. One will be very surprised at the amount of very fine powder that becomes air born but is conveniently trap in the bag which easily collected after pulverizing item.
My note:Friend, please take no insult to these “important notes & key steps”, as they are already written in and I’m only repeating it exactly as it is read. This data seems to be written for those who may not have proper equipment or understanding and is not direct at you per say
Important Note: Use a container which is as small as possible. It should hold no more than 15ml or about 3tsp.
Also keep in mind to select a container that can be easily manipulated and cleaned to retain residual product that may be left on the inside walls of the container.
Small SS Coffee Scoop (15ml max), works perfectly and should be used if proper lab glassware is not available.
Step 2:
Place VFP in small container (container #1). Pour 5ml 100% IA (or just enough to saturate and just cover powder completely)
Important Note: (Use only 100% IA.
Common 70% 91% or even the less common 98% IA will NOT work.)
Place container #1 on vibrator pad for 8 hours.
Most of the IA should be evaporated by this point (8h) of coarse depending on room temp, conditions & amount of IA first used but early evaporation (exposing powder) should NEVER be allowed.
Powder should be fully cover & saturated by IA over the 8 hours. IA evaporates relatively quickly at room temp (78f) but at 8 hour mark mix until dry.
(Important Note: Heat can be applied to help assist evaporation of IA but this can be EXTREMELY dangerous if you are not familiar with 100% IA. Open flame should NEVER be used. If one must, place container on heating pad or coffee warmer (coffee machine heat element can be used).
If you decide to apply heat, constantly mix & stir until IA is fully evaporated and powder becomes dry. Do not heat powder further, doing so will greatly degrade end results. Over heating powder at this or any stage will help bind unwanted elements over to the next steps.
Step 3:
Add 10-15 drops of 100% pure orange oil or 100% lemon oil to container #1 holding dry powder. These oils can be costly, so use only enough to fully cover powder. Adding extra will not help but will hinder during separation stage.
(Important note: Pure 100% orange oil or lemon oil is a must.
Do NOT substitute with “extracts” or products containing “evaporated cane juice” (form of sugar), simple “juice” or anything containing “water”. The slightest water or sugar from these type products will destroy outcome. )
Take container #1 with oil covered powder and place on vibrating pad for 8 hours.
Prepare for OAS during this wait. A second container (#2) will be needed for capture the drain off of oil from container #1. (using the second SS small coffee scoop might be useful at this point)
A truly well written description of a proper OAS:
([URL="http://www.drugs-forum.com/fo...m.com/forum/showpost.php?p=892099&postcount=8[/url])
Step 4:
Open Air Siphon (OAS) until powder is almost dry and siphon has nearly complete.
Just before OAS is completed (when liquid IA is almost drained out of container #1 but while powder is still wet), quickly wash down sides of container with a few extra drops of 100% oil.
Instructions to “Wash down” sides/walls of container #1; Take small eye dropper and fill with 100% orange or lemon oil.
Use very sparingly, only a few drops of oil from eye dropper will be needed to wash down sides of container #1. This should take no more than 4-5 drops if used correctly.
Take eye dropper and drip a single (one) drop while at the same time using a wiping motion. This wiping motion is simply like drawing a short line on the inside wall of the container as you are releasing a drop of oil. Let this wash down the walls of container #1 into wet powder.
The OAS collection container (container #2) which is now holding oil from first container #1, can be disregarded (This will NOT be used again in this experiment).
Fear not, this oil does NOT contain any wanted product.
You will have second thoughts about discarding this oil but since you are trusting in these instructions to this point, there is little logic in doubting them now. The science of “why” the target ingredient did not siphon out with the oil can be research and it is recommend that you do so in order to better understand but for now please follow to next step)
Wait until OAS has fully stopped and powder is as dry as possible (should take less than an hour)
Step 5:
Take 125ml separatory funnel and pour powder from container #1, into it.
Add 70ml 100% IA (about 1/3 cup)
Shake very vigorously by hand for 4-5 minutes
Step 6:
Suspended Sep. Funnel from stand or position properly (vertically & level).
Take a long piece of aluminum foil and wrap it around sep funnel (shinny side facing in).
Tear small hole in aluminum foil (about half way down) place high power UV led flash light through this hole so that the UV light is shinning directly at the IA liquid in sep funnel. (the aluminum foil should hold the UV flash light but you may need to add a few piece of tape or wrap another piece of aluminum foil also around flash light. The point is to directly bath IA solution in direct UV light. The Aluminum foil makes this very easy to incase sep funnel and hold UV flash light at the same time. It is much easier than it sounds. The reason behind this is that it helps separate & oxidize small partials from the AI solution. Tests back this claim and it is considered a must at this point)
Set aside like this (with UV light on) for 10 hours
(Note: It may be possible to use a container other than a separatory funnel but be warned, doing so has not been tested and is considered uncharted waters, so to speak. If you decide to attempt this, use a container that is as close to funnel or cone like, as possible.)
Step 7:
Examine separatory funnel at 10 hour mark , upon careful inspection you will notice that the IA is much clearer and a small oil layer floating on top of IA. (you may also notice a small cloud like layer just above bottom powder)
Separate off oil layer to the best of your ability.
Drain off powder & IA solution (and cloud) layer into another small container (container #3). This container (#3) should now be the repository for everything BUT the oil and oil layer (which is a small brown mix layer just under the surface)
This new container (#3) should also be small as possible, a small 1/3 or ½ SS measuring cup will work. You may need to use a pasteur pipette (or long eye dropper) if drain becomes clog. If separatory funnel’s bottom drain successfully drained-out powder & IA solution, skip to step 8.
If clog, read following notation:
Notation for clog: The powder will likely clog most small separatory funnel drains. If this is the case, don’t despair as this will be the norm due to most smaller sep. funnels do not come with larger particle drains.
At this point, do NOT pour out IA & powder solution through the top of separatory funnel, as this would contaminate and remix the oil residue (located on the walls of the funnel) back into the IA & powder solution. If this happens, you would have to redo step 5 from the start (10 hours prior) and waist 10 hours.
Make sure that as much oil as possible is taken off top of IA and the sides of funnel. To do this, use a suction tool and paper towel. Slowly manipulate paper towel to just touch the oil floating on top of IA, it will instantly absorb oil once you touch it, as well as a small amount of IA. Don’t be overly concerned with this IA being absorb with the oil into paper towel, as it will be negligible and not avoidable.
You will find that most common “eye droppers” will be to short to reach either the bottom or the middle of a 125ml separatory funnel. If you do not have longer lab pipette (this is basically a long, thin eye dropper), simply use two or three common eye droppers connected together. Here’s how; almost all common cheap eye droppers have tapered ends and a suction ball that comes apart for easy cleaning. Due to the tapered ends on the eye droppers/medicine droppers, they will easily & very simply fit into each other. Press together two or three until required length. Then place one of the suction ball on the last tube as if you would a single unit and your done.
Be careful when using any suction tool or dropper. If you use to much suction, it will splash up on the sides and taken in unwanted oil. Use suction very slowly and sparingly, you will thankful in the end.
If using a suction tool/eye dropper on powder clog, be sure NOT to use the same dropper that you used to separate the oil or make sure to properly wash/clean dropper(s) between steps or you will contaminate oil back into the powder IA solution and waste many hours of work.
Step 8:
Wash-out separatory funnel. Be sure all oil residue is gone and sep. funnel is thoroughly clean.
Step9:
Redo above steps 5 thru 7 one last time. Do NOT cut any corners (This is a long process but it was found necessary to get rid of the oil/chemicals from usable powder.)
Step 10:
Container #3 should now have the solution of powder & IA.
Evaporate IA from powder by employing a non flame heat source. This will greatly speed things along (see above note on heating IA correctly & safely).
If heating, make sure that temperature never surpasses 110 degrees F. Stir & mix while heating to help evaporate off IA. This will not take long, as IA evaporates quickly when even a small amount of added heat is applied. (Note: the author has decided to keep this a low(er) heat extraction process but one can adjust this in order to balance time-to-outcome during future trial & error. This solution may be too long as written but as it stands now, it has been vested... although refinement is for the bold & welcome)
Once powder is completely dry, you are almost complete.
Step 11:
CWE by employing OAS. This will help wash out any left over chemicals. Make sure that all the water used is continually kept ice cold, no more than 34F degrees and that filter/string is wet with ice water before starting extraction. (to help manger ice cold temperature during OAS, recommend placing the top container in a type of "double boiler" set up but using ice & water)
Recommend using three pieces of Oral-B superfloss string(s) for the OAS and reusing the two (15ml) SS coffee scoops once again during this OAS, CWE. (Of coarse wash & clean SS scoops first. Also note: Oral-B string has a coating which should first be washed off as well)
Use as little ice water as possible, less than 8-10ml. Use small eye dropper to wash down walls of container, again using only a drop or two during a wiping motion, in order not to waste any wanted product.
VIP Note:
Unlike prior OAS (under step 4), the bottom or target container (which we will now call container #2) will NOT be discarded or thrown away. This target (bottom) container #2 will retain all the wanted product.
You may also notice that the top container #1 will not have much, if any, left behind material or powder after OAS is complete. This is to be expected. You may also notice that the siphon string(s) might be light brownish in color and have a slight sent of orange/lemon oil, this is ok. As long as you completed the wall wash with a few extra drops of ice water. Do not attempt to pintch the string and squeeze this out.
Step 12:
Take container #2, sprinkle a very small amount of fine powder ox_co_one (talc?), less than a pinch, into container #2 and stir. If none is available, move on. (this method was used in all tests due to a well placed suggestion and discussion to help end results. It may make zero difference but was used in all tests)
Place in oven at 180F degrees. Do NOT boil. As water evaporates, lower temperature to 130 when most of the water has evaporated. Check constantly at this point, until fully dry. Once fully dry, take immediately out of oven. Excess heat is unwarranted.
Step 13 (END)
Very important to take your time and scrap down entire area of SS container. You will finally have product ready to be ground/cut into desired choice method.
This entire method can be refined with experience but works as is. Once experienced & familiar with above method and with one‘s own devices, one should figure out methods best to refine & speed-up the entire process.
NOTE: This is for information and theoretical purpose ONLY, rather than real world practical considerations. The term "vested", as used in this informational article implies vested in theoretical science. Do NOT use this in a real world setting or to violate any laws. NEVER take out of the theoretical setting or discussion. Do no harm.
----------------------------------------------
Editorial comments are below, but can't get them to originator of method:
Comments:
Comment 0: Whenever I see the acronym IA, the first thing I think of is "Iowa". Better to use "IPA", which is the standard acronym for isopropranol.
Comment 1: If you have or can borrow a scale that measure to the hundredths of a gram, or better to the milligram, it would be useful to measure what you have at the beginning and end of each step. Before starting, you would weigh each of your containers. For example, if you were using dried epsom salts to purify Isopropanol, and you knew what the weight should be of the water that's in the amount of impure IPA you were purifying, you would weigh your dried epsom salt before and after purifying. If the epsom salt had increased in weight by the weight you expected the water to be (and your isopropanol decreased by the same weight), you would have a good indication that your purification had been successful. Of course you would need to subtract the weight of yor container(s) before jotting down the weights.
Ideally, this data will make it possible eventually, for each step to indicate what it's inputs are, specify the transformation it performs, and then indicate what it's expected outputs are. Until then, just speculation will have to suffice.
Measuring the weight of everything affected, both at the start of the step, and at the end of the step can help to pinpoint exactly what is happening at every step, which may help to streamline the procedure, speeding it up.
Step 2 is mildly agitating the mixture for 8 hours. All I can think of is that this is applying minor shear forces to the PEO. Manufacturers such as Purdue are given instructions (by the makers of PolyOx aka PEO) to use certain motions, when mixing the raw PEO powder, to minimize "shear forces" which "degrade PEO".
Step 4: Comment should note that "oil should contain the anti-oxidant PEO". I wonder if there is any test to compare the amount present beforehand vs afterwards.
The API (active Pharmaceutical Ingredient) is still probably bound to the PEO, which has not yet been degraded by oxidation and shear force (which probably degrade PEO in different ways.
Steps 5 and 6: It probably would be best to agitate while exposed to UV light and then let stand to separate out into layers (probably still under UV light. Also, see Question after comments.
Step 7a: A separate siphon string presaturated with oil should repel water, and only siphon oil from the top (or do I misunderstand orange oil?).
Step 7b: Why not drain mostly from the top? You could use a long siphon wick running through an opening in the rubber bulb of a cheap glass dropper (squeezed tight while inserting through oil layer, so no oil gets on wick). Due to then length possibly needed, you might need a different material for the wick. A thin slice of a thin chamois worked nicely for ethanol. It should also work well for isopropanol.
7C: If you have been able to drain mostly from the top, you should not have too much trouble with clogs when you get to the point where you need to drain from the bottom.
To deal with clogs, you could use a long cheap glass dropper with some metal wire poked through the rubber bulb (not a hole, you want it somewhat air tight without effort), and gently manipulate the wire to clear the clog at the bottom.
Step 8: Specify what to use to clean up? An emulsifier like Palmolive dishwashing liquid? A major solvent like MEK? Isopropanol? (IPA worked well for Dow and Colorcom)
Step 10: you could heat the microwave platter ahead of time just by preparing lunch or coffee, so as not to waste energy. The rotating platter should be sufficient for a heat source.
Why the choice of 110 degrees?
Step 11: Why so cold? The procedure for the old OC's used room temperature at this point
Step 12: lactose powder might be good to add as a filler here, as it is fully water soluble, and won't bother the nose when dried.
----
Question: What is the output rating of the UV flashlight (in lumens or microcandles or watts)? What is it's wavelength? Both of these should be on the flashlight packaging. Powerful Raw UV Led's are available (I just looked some up, and those that are ultraviet or infrared are rated in milliwatts or watts. It's probably because you can't see them that they arent rated the same way that visible leds are.
superbrightleds.com has 20mw UV "SuperBright" Leds for 1.59 each, but I would not buy a 20mw led any more. They also have 1 watt UV leds for 6.99 each. You could probably get 1/2 watt leds elsewhere for a few bucks apiece and string them all around the funnel.
You'd also need a power supply (that same site has a 15 watt supply for 13.00) unless you want to keep changing D. cells. Staying with batteries would mean, since you can't see UV light, you'd need something that flouresces under UV to tell whether the batteries are still producing much light under load. The one other thing you would need is a current limiting resistor (diodes conduct current very well in one direction (forward) and not at all in the other direction (reverse). If you don't limit the forward current with a resistor, they will suck all the current they can, and burn themself up doing so. (The property of conducting current in one direction and not the other makes diodes ideal for converting alternating current into direct current, but the diodes normally used for this purpose can generally allow much greater currents. They also do not emit light. Every AC to DC adaptor that you plug into the wall contains at least 4 diodes, sometimes packaged in a single casing with four leads)
Note: The entire contents of this message are pure speculation on the operation of one or more imaginary devices intended for use by licensed medical staff, aboard a starship in a science fiction novel.
-------------------------------------------------
More comments:
I was just re-reading "POLYOX Degradation of Water Soluble Resins". Close to the end, where it talks about reaction with oxygen and hydrogen peroxide, it says "The decomposition can be catalyzed by several metal ions such as ferrous, cuprous, cupric and silver. Typically, lower valent ions are more effective catalysts".
My take on this is that one could place two electrodes in a solution of PEO, through which oxygen is being bubbled, and pass an electric current through the solution. This would look a little like an electroplating setup, or like a cell of a wet battery. As you pass current through the solution, electrons are jumping from one atom to the next, creating a flow of ions. The source electrode (called the "cathode", connected to the negative side of the power source) should be as large as possible.
The combination of oxygen exposure, UV exposure, and ion catalyzation should result in a very rapid degradation of the PEO. From another document, shear forces should speed it up further.
The PEO used in the OC tablets has a molecular weight in the millions. After degradation, it is still in the thousands.
Oxycodone has a molecular weight of about 315, and acording to drugbank.ca, an experimental water solubility of 100mg/ml
I couldn't find any information about the water solubility of degraded PEO (how degraded is degraded?), but I recall seeing a reference to an inverse solubility profile, such that it becomes insoluble when heated to a certain point, so if that is also true for the deggraded form,, after degradation, one could perhaps heat a solution to cause sedimentaion of the degraded PEO.
-------------------------------
Finally, Pure Orange oil or it's main component, d-limonene seems to be available for much less than the author indicated, less than an Andrew Jackson per pint
Found the following on the "7" train and scanned it in. Could probably be simplified.
ACRONYM KEY:
VFP = Very Fine Powder
IA = Isopropyl Alcohol (100%)
OAS = Open Air Siphon
CWE = Cold Water Extraction
ml = Milliliter
fl oz = Fluid Ounces
SS = Stainless Steel
IR = Instant Release
UV = UltraViolet
led = Light Emitting Diode
RECOMENDED OR NEEDED EQUIPMENT:
-100% pure orange oil or 100% lemon oil (bit less common, found at specialty stores like “Fruits & Passion” but easily found & sold on internet. Relatively expensive 0.5fl oz for about $19)-
[editor's note: Pure Orange Oil be available much more cheaply, like that price given, but for a pint - look for pure d-limonene, too ]
-100% Isopropyl Alcohol (less common but readily available to many people, cheap 12fl oz for $5 )-
-Separatory Funnel (less common but readily available on internet for $20. Possibility of using funnel or cone shaped container but unknown. SF is highly recommended & needed at this time.
-Pasteur pipette (or long eye dropper) (a cheap & effective way to make a long eye dropper is to buy 3 very common two piece medicine droppers or kid eye droppers. Simply stack taper end of first tube in back end of another tube and replace suction ball on last tube. No tools required, cost about $1 each.)
-High power UV led flashlight (common, available in specialty stores such as Spencers. Also readily available on the internet for about $10-$15. Also very common this time of year for “Halloween”)
-Pedi Paws, battery powered pet nail trimmer (very common, available at retail/drug stores like Walgreens/Target/CVS for $9.99)-
-Ziploc freezer bag (extremely common, any super market $5)-
-(2) small SS Coffee Scoops (very common, available at Target Store/Wal-Mart, in kitchen supplies $2.99ea, made by Chefmate)
-set of SS small measuring cup set (very common, available at *same as above, comes in set of 4 different sizes on one ring, only $1.99
-set of SS small measuring spoons (very common, available at *see above, comes in set of 4 different sizes on one ring, only .99 cents (under a dollar)
-Vibrator Pad or Shaker (less common; $100+ lab equipment but can be easily made from parts, certain toys or old cell phone for under $10 or free using old parts)-
-Heating Pad or Coffee Warmer (very common under $20, available at Target/Wal-Mart/Super markets. Very Hot water could be used instead but could destroy experiment if any got into the solution)-
Step 1:
Take one item, pulverize into very fine powder (this is a key step and time much be taken to ensure that powder consistency is as fine as “talc”, or as close as possible)
Use a “Pedi Paws”. It is much preferred over a Dremel tool, due to the Pedi Paws “catch cap” on the “Pedi Paws”.
Hand filing is NOT recommended, as it does not refine the powder to “talc” consistency.
This catch cap is extremely efficient at retaining as much product as possible. Even when using a Pedi Paws, one should place the entire tool (Pedi Paws) into a “Ziploc freezer bag” and work within this bag. One will be very surprised at the amount of very fine powder that becomes air born but is conveniently trap in the bag which easily collected after pulverizing item.
My note:Friend, please take no insult to these “important notes & key steps”, as they are already written in and I’m only repeating it exactly as it is read. This data seems to be written for those who may not have proper equipment or understanding and is not direct at you per say
Important Note: Use a container which is as small as possible. It should hold no more than 15ml or about 3tsp.
Also keep in mind to select a container that can be easily manipulated and cleaned to retain residual product that may be left on the inside walls of the container.
Small SS Coffee Scoop (15ml max), works perfectly and should be used if proper lab glassware is not available.
Step 2:
Place VFP in small container (container #1). Pour 5ml 100% IA (or just enough to saturate and just cover powder completely)
Important Note: (Use only 100% IA.
Common 70% 91% or even the less common 98% IA will NOT work.)
Place container #1 on vibrator pad for 8 hours.
Most of the IA should be evaporated by this point (8h) of coarse depending on room temp, conditions & amount of IA first used but early evaporation (exposing powder) should NEVER be allowed.
Powder should be fully cover & saturated by IA over the 8 hours. IA evaporates relatively quickly at room temp (78f) but at 8 hour mark mix until dry.
(Important Note: Heat can be applied to help assist evaporation of IA but this can be EXTREMELY dangerous if you are not familiar with 100% IA. Open flame should NEVER be used. If one must, place container on heating pad or coffee warmer (coffee machine heat element can be used).
If you decide to apply heat, constantly mix & stir until IA is fully evaporated and powder becomes dry. Do not heat powder further, doing so will greatly degrade end results. Over heating powder at this or any stage will help bind unwanted elements over to the next steps.
Step 3:
Add 10-15 drops of 100% pure orange oil or 100% lemon oil to container #1 holding dry powder. These oils can be costly, so use only enough to fully cover powder. Adding extra will not help but will hinder during separation stage.
(Important note: Pure 100% orange oil or lemon oil is a must.
Do NOT substitute with “extracts” or products containing “evaporated cane juice” (form of sugar), simple “juice” or anything containing “water”. The slightest water or sugar from these type products will destroy outcome. )
Take container #1 with oil covered powder and place on vibrating pad for 8 hours.
Prepare for OAS during this wait. A second container (#2) will be needed for capture the drain off of oil from container #1. (using the second SS small coffee scoop might be useful at this point)
A truly well written description of a proper OAS:
([URL="http://www.drugs-forum.com/fo...m.com/forum/showpost.php?p=892099&postcount=8[/url])
Step 4:
Open Air Siphon (OAS) until powder is almost dry and siphon has nearly complete.
Just before OAS is completed (when liquid IA is almost drained out of container #1 but while powder is still wet), quickly wash down sides of container with a few extra drops of 100% oil.
Instructions to “Wash down” sides/walls of container #1; Take small eye dropper and fill with 100% orange or lemon oil.
Use very sparingly, only a few drops of oil from eye dropper will be needed to wash down sides of container #1. This should take no more than 4-5 drops if used correctly.
Take eye dropper and drip a single (one) drop while at the same time using a wiping motion. This wiping motion is simply like drawing a short line on the inside wall of the container as you are releasing a drop of oil. Let this wash down the walls of container #1 into wet powder.
The OAS collection container (container #2) which is now holding oil from first container #1, can be disregarded (This will NOT be used again in this experiment).
Fear not, this oil does NOT contain any wanted product.
You will have second thoughts about discarding this oil but since you are trusting in these instructions to this point, there is little logic in doubting them now. The science of “why” the target ingredient did not siphon out with the oil can be research and it is recommend that you do so in order to better understand but for now please follow to next step)
Wait until OAS has fully stopped and powder is as dry as possible (should take less than an hour)
Step 5:
Take 125ml separatory funnel and pour powder from container #1, into it.
Add 70ml 100% IA (about 1/3 cup)
Shake very vigorously by hand for 4-5 minutes
Step 6:
Suspended Sep. Funnel from stand or position properly (vertically & level).
Take a long piece of aluminum foil and wrap it around sep funnel (shinny side facing in).
Tear small hole in aluminum foil (about half way down) place high power UV led flash light through this hole so that the UV light is shinning directly at the IA liquid in sep funnel. (the aluminum foil should hold the UV flash light but you may need to add a few piece of tape or wrap another piece of aluminum foil also around flash light. The point is to directly bath IA solution in direct UV light. The Aluminum foil makes this very easy to incase sep funnel and hold UV flash light at the same time. It is much easier than it sounds. The reason behind this is that it helps separate & oxidize small partials from the AI solution. Tests back this claim and it is considered a must at this point)
Set aside like this (with UV light on) for 10 hours
(Note: It may be possible to use a container other than a separatory funnel but be warned, doing so has not been tested and is considered uncharted waters, so to speak. If you decide to attempt this, use a container that is as close to funnel or cone like, as possible.)
Step 7:
Examine separatory funnel at 10 hour mark , upon careful inspection you will notice that the IA is much clearer and a small oil layer floating on top of IA. (you may also notice a small cloud like layer just above bottom powder)
Separate off oil layer to the best of your ability.
Drain off powder & IA solution (and cloud) layer into another small container (container #3). This container (#3) should now be the repository for everything BUT the oil and oil layer (which is a small brown mix layer just under the surface)
This new container (#3) should also be small as possible, a small 1/3 or ½ SS measuring cup will work. You may need to use a pasteur pipette (or long eye dropper) if drain becomes clog. If separatory funnel’s bottom drain successfully drained-out powder & IA solution, skip to step 8.
If clog, read following notation:
Notation for clog: The powder will likely clog most small separatory funnel drains. If this is the case, don’t despair as this will be the norm due to most smaller sep. funnels do not come with larger particle drains.
At this point, do NOT pour out IA & powder solution through the top of separatory funnel, as this would contaminate and remix the oil residue (located on the walls of the funnel) back into the IA & powder solution. If this happens, you would have to redo step 5 from the start (10 hours prior) and waist 10 hours.
Make sure that as much oil as possible is taken off top of IA and the sides of funnel. To do this, use a suction tool and paper towel. Slowly manipulate paper towel to just touch the oil floating on top of IA, it will instantly absorb oil once you touch it, as well as a small amount of IA. Don’t be overly concerned with this IA being absorb with the oil into paper towel, as it will be negligible and not avoidable.
You will find that most common “eye droppers” will be to short to reach either the bottom or the middle of a 125ml separatory funnel. If you do not have longer lab pipette (this is basically a long, thin eye dropper), simply use two or three common eye droppers connected together. Here’s how; almost all common cheap eye droppers have tapered ends and a suction ball that comes apart for easy cleaning. Due to the tapered ends on the eye droppers/medicine droppers, they will easily & very simply fit into each other. Press together two or three until required length. Then place one of the suction ball on the last tube as if you would a single unit and your done.
Be careful when using any suction tool or dropper. If you use to much suction, it will splash up on the sides and taken in unwanted oil. Use suction very slowly and sparingly, you will thankful in the end.
If using a suction tool/eye dropper on powder clog, be sure NOT to use the same dropper that you used to separate the oil or make sure to properly wash/clean dropper(s) between steps or you will contaminate oil back into the powder IA solution and waste many hours of work.
Step 8:
Wash-out separatory funnel. Be sure all oil residue is gone and sep. funnel is thoroughly clean.
Step9:
Redo above steps 5 thru 7 one last time. Do NOT cut any corners (This is a long process but it was found necessary to get rid of the oil/chemicals from usable powder.)
Step 10:
Container #3 should now have the solution of powder & IA.
Evaporate IA from powder by employing a non flame heat source. This will greatly speed things along (see above note on heating IA correctly & safely).
If heating, make sure that temperature never surpasses 110 degrees F. Stir & mix while heating to help evaporate off IA. This will not take long, as IA evaporates quickly when even a small amount of added heat is applied. (Note: the author has decided to keep this a low(er) heat extraction process but one can adjust this in order to balance time-to-outcome during future trial & error. This solution may be too long as written but as it stands now, it has been vested... although refinement is for the bold & welcome)
Once powder is completely dry, you are almost complete.
Step 11:
CWE by employing OAS. This will help wash out any left over chemicals. Make sure that all the water used is continually kept ice cold, no more than 34F degrees and that filter/string is wet with ice water before starting extraction. (to help manger ice cold temperature during OAS, recommend placing the top container in a type of "double boiler" set up but using ice & water)
Recommend using three pieces of Oral-B superfloss string(s) for the OAS and reusing the two (15ml) SS coffee scoops once again during this OAS, CWE. (Of coarse wash & clean SS scoops first. Also note: Oral-B string has a coating which should first be washed off as well)
Use as little ice water as possible, less than 8-10ml. Use small eye dropper to wash down walls of container, again using only a drop or two during a wiping motion, in order not to waste any wanted product.
VIP Note:
Unlike prior OAS (under step 4), the bottom or target container (which we will now call container #2) will NOT be discarded or thrown away. This target (bottom) container #2 will retain all the wanted product.
You may also notice that the top container #1 will not have much, if any, left behind material or powder after OAS is complete. This is to be expected. You may also notice that the siphon string(s) might be light brownish in color and have a slight sent of orange/lemon oil, this is ok. As long as you completed the wall wash with a few extra drops of ice water. Do not attempt to pintch the string and squeeze this out.
Step 12:
Take container #2, sprinkle a very small amount of fine powder ox_co_one (talc?), less than a pinch, into container #2 and stir. If none is available, move on. (this method was used in all tests due to a well placed suggestion and discussion to help end results. It may make zero difference but was used in all tests)
Place in oven at 180F degrees. Do NOT boil. As water evaporates, lower temperature to 130 when most of the water has evaporated. Check constantly at this point, until fully dry. Once fully dry, take immediately out of oven. Excess heat is unwarranted.
Step 13 (END)
Very important to take your time and scrap down entire area of SS container. You will finally have product ready to be ground/cut into desired choice method.
This entire method can be refined with experience but works as is. Once experienced & familiar with above method and with one‘s own devices, one should figure out methods best to refine & speed-up the entire process.
NOTE: This is for information and theoretical purpose ONLY, rather than real world practical considerations. The term "vested", as used in this informational article implies vested in theoretical science. Do NOT use this in a real world setting or to violate any laws. NEVER take out of the theoretical setting or discussion. Do no harm.
----------------------------------------------
Editorial comments are below, but can't get them to originator of method:
Comments:
Comment 0: Whenever I see the acronym IA, the first thing I think of is "Iowa". Better to use "IPA", which is the standard acronym for isopropranol.
Comment 1: If you have or can borrow a scale that measure to the hundredths of a gram, or better to the milligram, it would be useful to measure what you have at the beginning and end of each step. Before starting, you would weigh each of your containers. For example, if you were using dried epsom salts to purify Isopropanol, and you knew what the weight should be of the water that's in the amount of impure IPA you were purifying, you would weigh your dried epsom salt before and after purifying. If the epsom salt had increased in weight by the weight you expected the water to be (and your isopropanol decreased by the same weight), you would have a good indication that your purification had been successful. Of course you would need to subtract the weight of yor container(s) before jotting down the weights.
Ideally, this data will make it possible eventually, for each step to indicate what it's inputs are, specify the transformation it performs, and then indicate what it's expected outputs are. Until then, just speculation will have to suffice.
Measuring the weight of everything affected, both at the start of the step, and at the end of the step can help to pinpoint exactly what is happening at every step, which may help to streamline the procedure, speeding it up.
Step 2 is mildly agitating the mixture for 8 hours. All I can think of is that this is applying minor shear forces to the PEO. Manufacturers such as Purdue are given instructions (by the makers of PolyOx aka PEO) to use certain motions, when mixing the raw PEO powder, to minimize "shear forces" which "degrade PEO".
Step 4: Comment should note that "oil should contain the anti-oxidant PEO". I wonder if there is any test to compare the amount present beforehand vs afterwards.
The API (active Pharmaceutical Ingredient) is still probably bound to the PEO, which has not yet been degraded by oxidation and shear force (which probably degrade PEO in different ways.
Steps 5 and 6: It probably would be best to agitate while exposed to UV light and then let stand to separate out into layers (probably still under UV light. Also, see Question after comments.
Step 7a: A separate siphon string presaturated with oil should repel water, and only siphon oil from the top (or do I misunderstand orange oil?).
Step 7b: Why not drain mostly from the top? You could use a long siphon wick running through an opening in the rubber bulb of a cheap glass dropper (squeezed tight while inserting through oil layer, so no oil gets on wick). Due to then length possibly needed, you might need a different material for the wick. A thin slice of a thin chamois worked nicely for ethanol. It should also work well for isopropanol.
7C: If you have been able to drain mostly from the top, you should not have too much trouble with clogs when you get to the point where you need to drain from the bottom.
To deal with clogs, you could use a long cheap glass dropper with some metal wire poked through the rubber bulb (not a hole, you want it somewhat air tight without effort), and gently manipulate the wire to clear the clog at the bottom.
Step 8: Specify what to use to clean up? An emulsifier like Palmolive dishwashing liquid? A major solvent like MEK? Isopropanol? (IPA worked well for Dow and Colorcom)
Step 10: you could heat the microwave platter ahead of time just by preparing lunch or coffee, so as not to waste energy. The rotating platter should be sufficient for a heat source.
Why the choice of 110 degrees?
Step 11: Why so cold? The procedure for the old OC's used room temperature at this point
Step 12: lactose powder might be good to add as a filler here, as it is fully water soluble, and won't bother the nose when dried.
----
Question: What is the output rating of the UV flashlight (in lumens or microcandles or watts)? What is it's wavelength? Both of these should be on the flashlight packaging. Powerful Raw UV Led's are available (I just looked some up, and those that are ultraviet or infrared are rated in milliwatts or watts. It's probably because you can't see them that they arent rated the same way that visible leds are.
superbrightleds.com has 20mw UV "SuperBright" Leds for 1.59 each, but I would not buy a 20mw led any more. They also have 1 watt UV leds for 6.99 each. You could probably get 1/2 watt leds elsewhere for a few bucks apiece and string them all around the funnel.
You'd also need a power supply (that same site has a 15 watt supply for 13.00) unless you want to keep changing D. cells. Staying with batteries would mean, since you can't see UV light, you'd need something that flouresces under UV to tell whether the batteries are still producing much light under load. The one other thing you would need is a current limiting resistor (diodes conduct current very well in one direction (forward) and not at all in the other direction (reverse). If you don't limit the forward current with a resistor, they will suck all the current they can, and burn themself up doing so. (The property of conducting current in one direction and not the other makes diodes ideal for converting alternating current into direct current, but the diodes normally used for this purpose can generally allow much greater currents. They also do not emit light. Every AC to DC adaptor that you plug into the wall contains at least 4 diodes, sometimes packaged in a single casing with four leads)
Note: The entire contents of this message are pure speculation on the operation of one or more imaginary devices intended for use by licensed medical staff, aboard a starship in a science fiction novel.
-------------------------------------------------
More comments:
I was just re-reading "POLYOX Degradation of Water Soluble Resins". Close to the end, where it talks about reaction with oxygen and hydrogen peroxide, it says "The decomposition can be catalyzed by several metal ions such as ferrous, cuprous, cupric and silver. Typically, lower valent ions are more effective catalysts".
My take on this is that one could place two electrodes in a solution of PEO, through which oxygen is being bubbled, and pass an electric current through the solution. This would look a little like an electroplating setup, or like a cell of a wet battery. As you pass current through the solution, electrons are jumping from one atom to the next, creating a flow of ions. The source electrode (called the "cathode", connected to the negative side of the power source) should be as large as possible.
The combination of oxygen exposure, UV exposure, and ion catalyzation should result in a very rapid degradation of the PEO. From another document, shear forces should speed it up further.
The PEO used in the OC tablets has a molecular weight in the millions. After degradation, it is still in the thousands.
Oxycodone has a molecular weight of about 315, and acording to drugbank.ca, an experimental water solubility of 100mg/ml
I couldn't find any information about the water solubility of degraded PEO (how degraded is degraded?), but I recall seeing a reference to an inverse solubility profile, such that it becomes insoluble when heated to a certain point, so if that is also true for the deggraded form,, after degradation, one could perhaps heat a solution to cause sedimentaion of the degraded PEO.
-------------------------------
Finally, Pure Orange oil or it's main component, d-limonene seems to be available for much less than the author indicated, less than an Andrew Jackson per pint
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justtesting
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Despite the original author's comments that appear to be to the contrary, with "OAS", all of your sediment should be left in the originating container, with the target container containing no solids. Further, the "siphon string" or "wick", if white to begin with, should not take on a different color unless the underlying liquid (water, or oil, or alcohol, or whatever) is naturally colored. If the string takes on a color different from the liquid (for more than maybe 1/2 inch out of the source liquid), then there is contamination of some sort (such as a still viscous liquid dragging particles along with itself)
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justtesting
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Probably one of the most important sentences in the above method/replies is this:
dntcheckthtbxdoc
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justtesting, maybe im blind but if this information you wrote out is for op's is it making them snortable/iv usuable...? I did read it all but maybe i missed something maybe i didnt. I'm not trying to be rude at all either i just didnt catch what the reason for this was and what the outcome was? If you could summarize it asll in a nut shell i'd appreciate it i may of missed a little of this nodding out so often...Thanks
ocpheend
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im sorry to jump in with a stupid question like this but as far as i can tell from searching and reading when u guys say op oxys u mean a new kind of oxy thats abuse resistant?? its bin awhile since ive bin on bl and have never heard of these b4 can sum1 link me to pix??
justtesting
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Yes. OxyContin has been reformulated into a new tablet that looks nearly identical to the original tablet. The same colors are used, but the tablet's surface looks like it was sandblasted with a very thin "spray paint" composed of the same material as the pill itself, only colored. The "OC" imprint on one side of the tablet has been changed to "OP", and the term "OP" has come into use to refer to the new formulation.
The old mechanism used a matrix of ammonio methacrylate copolymer, possibly using the HPMC to help tune the release rate. Unlike the new version, the old version could be mixed with water, heated to boiling and stirred to produce a waxy solid that could be easily filtered with an OAS leaving a liquid that contained 99.5% of the API and lactose and when evaporated was purely water soluble (old procedure was here).
The new release mechansm uses a hydrophilic matrix of PolyOx (Dow tradename for PEO) and HPMC (hypromellose). Release is accomplished by diffusion through a gel of the matrix and erosion of the gel surface. Otherwise the drug is tightly bound (allegedly as an association compound) with the PolyOx.
Much of the formulation's "Abuse resistance" is a side effect of the release mechanism. Most of the pill's bulk is a highly compressed very long chain polymer, which makes accidental or intentional breakage difficult. The release mechanism requires hydration, but hydration makes the polymer "gel up" into a blob that expands in size. When cut into small chunks or powdered, the bits quickly gell up when wet, seek each other out and join back up into a large jell blob which will continue to release by diffusion through the gel and erosion of the gel surface. Should one attempt to snort or inject the powder, bad things will happen inside the nose or veins
The degree of PEO's gell ability is a function of it's high molecular weight (which goes hand in hand with the polymer length).
Oxidation degrades PEO, so Purdue added BHT to prevent that. Rurik's method appears to work via oxidation.
Ultraviolet light also degrades PEO.
Previous (OC) formulation used titanium dioxide(TiO2) only for coloring. In the new formula, it is also used like sunblock to protect the PEO from UV light. Thus a strong UV light may be needed to exploit the UV route to degrading PEO.
TiO2 is not water soluble, and can also serve as a photocatalyst under UV light, so it may have some "free" benefits.
The page at this link contains side by side comparison of the old and new ingredients (as well as some early speculation about using orange oil for oxidizing PEO that led to someone mailing me a procedure that he or she developed after reading that speculation).
I'm very sleepy now, so this seems like a good stopping point. Will continue this to discuss more technical questions after I've had some sleep.
justtesting
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A library of posts on OP extraction
First up is a table comparing The old and new formulas. Also in this post is an early and naive extraction suggestion.
Oxidation comments and the OC/OP Ingredient Comparison table
Polyethylene oxide (wikipedia)
Technical information on Polyethylene oxide. Note that PEO is not one compound, but many. Being a polymer, it contains chains of repeated segments. The number of segments determines it's molecular weight. Very light weight Polyethylene oxide molecules are called Polyethylene glycol, and like PEO, PEG comes in different weights. Different weights have different properties. For example, PEG 3350 is used as a laxative, but PEG 400 is used in foods and drinks and pharmaceuticals, and PEG 300 can be used on phenol skin burns to deactivate any residual phenol.
PolyOx, the PEO used in OP tablets has a weight in the millions. Your goal, Mr. Phelps, should you decide to accept it, is to determine the best means of degrading PEO into a low weight PEG.
The censored briefing Purdue gave FDA
Other postings have filled in some of the blanks. Better to read them first.
Manufacturer documents discussing PolyOx:
from Dow's polyox site
from ColorCon
cleaning materials for polyox work areas
The remainder of this list points to postings, mostly about the new OP's. Please note, that it is preferable, especially in step by step procedures, to use the pharmaceutical industry terms whenever possible.
For example use "API" for "Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient", once you've established which API you are referring to. It makes procedures more generic, easier to translate for use with other drugs, and harder for your big brother to find. Wikipedia lists this under Active Ingredient, as API can also refer to Application Programming Interface, but in the pharmacology industry, Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient is the preferred term. (Also two letter acronyms are a pain in the butt).
Similarly, it is prefererable to use the term excipient when referring to inactive pharmaceutical ingredients. It is much easier to usefully google for "excipients" than for "inactive ingredients".
IPA is the standard acronym for isopropyl alcohol, and so on ...
I have not always done this until recently, but will try to do so more in the future.
The posts:
Open Air Siphon AKA wick filter
Very useful procedure. Done properly, more effective and efficient than coffee filters and never clogs. Used in ancient times for water purification.
"op" ingredient list
Reply to person who assumed hypromellose would be the problem
Response discussing OP appearance and ingredients
Open Air Siphon / Wick Filter clarification
Important:
The following two posts contain proposed extraction methods. The first was written after reading the second of the two, and contains ideas that had not yet been known and/or considered when the first was written. The second had a great deal of work put into it, and has reportedly been tried successfully, but I have not seen what the criteria for determining success is (or a technical explanation of how it accomplishes it's goals). It is also more complex than the first (in my opinion).
Posting Response containing proposal for OP extraction
Other experiments on OPs
This is Important. It contains an apparently successful extraction method, but I have been unable to reach the method's creator. Immediately following a verbatim copy of his method, I have added my own suggestions and comments on his method. I had been unsuccessful in my attempts to get them to him however, so I decided to just post it all. I am not trying to take credit for someone elses work, so please do not call it justtesting's method. I would tell you whose method it was if I knew I had his permission to name him, but I do not.
Post that just focuses attention on an important point in above "Other experiments on OPs post"
Here is the point, so you don't need to click on the link:
"The combination of oxygen exposure, UV exposure, and ion catalyzation should result in a very rapid degradation of the PEO. From another document, shear forces should speed it up further."
Miscellaneous
Comments on oxycodone melting point, decomposition, open air siphon, and filtering alcohol.
Questions about strengthening liquor proof with epsom salt
andyb's Answer to above post
Procedure for extraction from original OC's.
Actually simpler and easier than it looks. With practice, you could extract 99+% of the API from a dozen OC80's in about an hour. Won't work with OP's.
Comments on procedure using (h202, acetic acid, time, heat)
Early comments on possible sub goals
Pointless or obsolete paths...
Discussion of hypromellose is pointless, since PolyOx is the gelling agent in these pills, but I posted the following before I new better.
Oxidizing the Hypromellose (gotta laugh when I read that)
First up is a table comparing The old and new formulas. Also in this post is an early and naive extraction suggestion.
Oxidation comments and the OC/OP Ingredient Comparison table
Polyethylene oxide (wikipedia)
Technical information on Polyethylene oxide. Note that PEO is not one compound, but many. Being a polymer, it contains chains of repeated segments. The number of segments determines it's molecular weight. Very light weight Polyethylene oxide molecules are called Polyethylene glycol, and like PEO, PEG comes in different weights. Different weights have different properties. For example, PEG 3350 is used as a laxative, but PEG 400 is used in foods and drinks and pharmaceuticals, and PEG 300 can be used on phenol skin burns to deactivate any residual phenol.
PolyOx, the PEO used in OP tablets has a weight in the millions. Your goal, Mr. Phelps, should you decide to accept it, is to determine the best means of degrading PEO into a low weight PEG.
The censored briefing Purdue gave FDA
Other postings have filled in some of the blanks. Better to read them first.
Manufacturer documents discussing PolyOx:
from Dow's polyox site
from ColorCon
cleaning materials for polyox work areas
The remainder of this list points to postings, mostly about the new OP's. Please note, that it is preferable, especially in step by step procedures, to use the pharmaceutical industry terms whenever possible.
For example use "API" for "Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient", once you've established which API you are referring to. It makes procedures more generic, easier to translate for use with other drugs, and harder for your big brother to find. Wikipedia lists this under Active Ingredient, as API can also refer to Application Programming Interface, but in the pharmacology industry, Active Pharmaceutical Ingredient is the preferred term. (Also two letter acronyms are a pain in the butt).
Similarly, it is prefererable to use the term excipient when referring to inactive pharmaceutical ingredients. It is much easier to usefully google for "excipients" than for "inactive ingredients".
IPA is the standard acronym for isopropyl alcohol, and so on ...
I have not always done this until recently, but will try to do so more in the future.
The posts:
Open Air Siphon AKA wick filter
Very useful procedure. Done properly, more effective and efficient than coffee filters and never clogs. Used in ancient times for water purification.
"op" ingredient list
Reply to person who assumed hypromellose would be the problem
Response discussing OP appearance and ingredients
Open Air Siphon / Wick Filter clarification
Important:
The following two posts contain proposed extraction methods. The first was written after reading the second of the two, and contains ideas that had not yet been known and/or considered when the first was written. The second had a great deal of work put into it, and has reportedly been tried successfully, but I have not seen what the criteria for determining success is (or a technical explanation of how it accomplishes it's goals). It is also more complex than the first (in my opinion).
Posting Response containing proposal for OP extraction
Other experiments on OPs
This is Important. It contains an apparently successful extraction method, but I have been unable to reach the method's creator. Immediately following a verbatim copy of his method, I have added my own suggestions and comments on his method. I had been unsuccessful in my attempts to get them to him however, so I decided to just post it all. I am not trying to take credit for someone elses work, so please do not call it justtesting's method. I would tell you whose method it was if I knew I had his permission to name him, but I do not.
Post that just focuses attention on an important point in above "Other experiments on OPs post"
Here is the point, so you don't need to click on the link:
"The combination of oxygen exposure, UV exposure, and ion catalyzation should result in a very rapid degradation of the PEO. From another document, shear forces should speed it up further."
Miscellaneous
Comments on oxycodone melting point, decomposition, open air siphon, and filtering alcohol.
Questions about strengthening liquor proof with epsom salt
andyb's Answer to above post
Procedure for extraction from original OC's.
Actually simpler and easier than it looks. With practice, you could extract 99+% of the API from a dozen OC80's in about an hour. Won't work with OP's.
Comments on procedure using (h202, acetic acid, time, heat)
Early comments on possible sub goals
Pointless or obsolete paths...
Discussion of hypromellose is pointless, since PolyOx is the gelling agent in these pills, but I posted the following before I new better.
Oxidizing the Hypromellose (gotta laugh when I read that)
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pixplzthx
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I don't mean to come across as rude or brash but why would someone go through all that trouble when people have posted many ways that work without all the... hassle?
People have let the pills in soda, lemon juice and even water. People have even simply sucked on them for twenty minutes or so with great results.
The everyday man wouldn't have the means or where-with-all to extract. Lost in this discussion over PolyOx and hypermellouse is the "Why?".
Is it the trill of the chase? Is it to make sure you've sucked the marrow dry from the pill? We have pages and pages of methods that 98% of this forum will not or can not do.
I just think more emphasis needs to be placed on practical solutions.
That is all.
People have let the pills in soda, lemon juice and even water. People have even simply sucked on them for twenty minutes or so with great results.
The everyday man wouldn't have the means or where-with-all to extract. Lost in this discussion over PolyOx and hypermellouse is the "Why?".
Is it the trill of the chase? Is it to make sure you've sucked the marrow dry from the pill? We have pages and pages of methods that 98% of this forum will not or can not do.
I just think more emphasis needs to be placed on practical solutions.
That is all.
johndoe123456789
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Hey guys,
putting them under your tongue gets all of it into your system within 2 hours. its not as good as snorting ocs and getting everything in to your system instantly but its about as close as you can get with ops! i always put ocs under my tongue because it provides a very very long high (6-7 hours) (swallowing them provided no high/snorting or chewing too short/ and sublingual was perfect for me), but i understand most people would rather have a shorter stronger high. but when i put an op under my tongue i got very very high within 10 minutes and within 2 hours the pill was completely gone. the high was just like chewing an oc!
putting them under your tongue gets all of it into your system within 2 hours. its not as good as snorting ocs and getting everything in to your system instantly but its about as close as you can get with ops! i always put ocs under my tongue because it provides a very very long high (6-7 hours) (swallowing them provided no high/snorting or chewing too short/ and sublingual was perfect for me), but i understand most people would rather have a shorter stronger high. but when i put an op under my tongue i got very very high within 10 minutes and within 2 hours the pill was completely gone. the high was just like chewing an oc!
pixplzthx
Bluelighter
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It's the internet.
Comments can seem to be anything you make of them. I was not trying to be read in a specific way at all and thus tried to spell it out in the opening sentences. Your inability to read in any other tone but the ones I wanted to disregard is amazing to me. Maybe i should have stated, "I'm not trying to be upbeat or slightly funny in a tongue-in-cheek way..."
But you are right about one thing, at least. This is not the thread for this discussion.
Thank you for reminding me of that.
Comments can seem to be anything you make of them. I was not trying to be read in a specific way at all and thus tried to spell it out in the opening sentences. Your inability to read in any other tone but the ones I wanted to disregard is amazing to me. Maybe i should have stated, "I'm not trying to be upbeat or slightly funny in a tongue-in-cheek way..."
But you are right about one thing, at least. This is not the thread for this discussion.
Thank you for reminding me of that.
Cane2theLeft
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2008
- Messages
- 12,674
^thank you for both remaining civil but as you said, this isn't the place for this. Please don't derail the thread further and if either of you have any questions or comments, please feel free to PM me.
Kenaz
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2007
- Messages
- 643
The most practical solution is "eat your OPs, as oxycodone has excellent oral bioavailability. If you are having gastric issues or are not getting adequate pain relief - problems which many chronic pain patients have noted - speak with your prescribing physician."
I would also caution against underestimating what users will do to get high. I wouldn't expect a bunch of junkies without chemistry or pharmacology training to figure out how to de-methylate codeine and then acetylize the remaining morphine... but there are a fair number of "homebake" users in Oceania who did just that.
For me this is a game: I'm watching to see how long it takes for a bunch of skilled users to figure out how to hack the PolyOx delivery system.
So ive been reading these pretty faithfully, and i dont remember hearing if anybody has tried gas or diesel to destroy that polymer. I remember trieng to put gas into a milk gallon when i ran out of gas once, and it didnt take long for the gas to eat through the plastic! And dont they use diesel in the cocaine making process? Im just saying, if someones thinking, "wow, gas and diesel, I wouldnt want to consume the thing after soakin it in gas"! well theyve been doing it for years with the rich mans drug! Anyhow i have a few OP'S to experiment. So what im gonna do is....1..Scrape color coat off 1 op.....2.put in shot glass whole and uncut,in water just enough to cover it.....3.let sit for atleast 24 hours,or to where its soft and jelly. 4....empty excess water and dry glass and pour some gas,just enough to submerge. 5...leave for 24 hours or as long as it takes for gas to evaporate.. so this is the experiment im gonna try, and i shall try it with gas,then diesel, then a combination of both. then cut, then crushed!I shall report back after my findings. wish me luck
lowrider6967
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2010
- Messages
- 76
sorry to get off topic,but i think it might be of importance,has anyone been having problems with there teeth doing it this way?
dope_scout
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2010
- Messages
- 2
Hello all, first post but I have been visiting this board for quite a while now and only recently registered. Needless to say this thread has piqued my interest and I have just a few questions. Please be easy on me if I come across as ignorant, I assure you I have read this thread beginning to end.
Several pages back Moriarty(sp?) Had posted an a/b extraction protocol that he claimed yields I would consider as "excellent". More recently Justtesting has posted another very thorough and well written extraction protocol, though I don't recall any mention of yields as the result. My questions are as follows:
1) Does the a/b extraction method successfully circumvent the polyox problem by allowing adequate time for the gel/polymer "matrix" to release the API (to an acceptable extent) and thusly neutralize the need to remove the many excipients that are discussed in the method proposed by Justtesting?
2) Is there an increased risk of reaction or "passing along" the numerous undesirable excipients to the final product in the Moriarty method vs. the Justtesting method? If so, would these impurities impose a greater risk via the various ROA's (oral, insufflation, IV, rectal) that would seriously warrant the use of one method over another, even if for only specific ROA's (e.g. IV or insufflation)?
3) Perhaps I wasn't paying close enough attention but what would the difference in yield be between the two methods? Specifically quantity as my first two questions relate directly to the quality of the end product of these methods.
That pretty much does it for my questions. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I also appreciate all of the hard work and many hours of research and testing that have led us to these very exciting methods. A big thank you to all those brave enough to risk their drugs, money and (unfortunately) health in pursuit of better (read less harmful or risky) methods!
-The Scout
Several pages back Moriarty(sp?) Had posted an a/b extraction protocol that he claimed yields I would consider as "excellent". More recently Justtesting has posted another very thorough and well written extraction protocol, though I don't recall any mention of yields as the result. My questions are as follows:
1) Does the a/b extraction method successfully circumvent the polyox problem by allowing adequate time for the gel/polymer "matrix" to release the API (to an acceptable extent) and thusly neutralize the need to remove the many excipients that are discussed in the method proposed by Justtesting?
2) Is there an increased risk of reaction or "passing along" the numerous undesirable excipients to the final product in the Moriarty method vs. the Justtesting method? If so, would these impurities impose a greater risk via the various ROA's (oral, insufflation, IV, rectal) that would seriously warrant the use of one method over another, even if for only specific ROA's (e.g. IV or insufflation)?
3) Perhaps I wasn't paying close enough attention but what would the difference in yield be between the two methods? Specifically quantity as my first two questions relate directly to the quality of the end product of these methods.
That pretty much does it for my questions. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. I also appreciate all of the hard work and many hours of research and testing that have led us to these very exciting methods. A big thank you to all those brave enough to risk their drugs, money and (unfortunately) health in pursuit of better (read less harmful or risky) methods!
-The Scout